Got rid of ORIAN

Re-Raise

Well-Known Member
It also has nothing to do with the fact that facts in the original post are incorrect.

What happened in the location(s)? What was the miles reduction? Paid day? SPORH?

Do you know the answers to these questions or is your knee jerk reaction to defend the system in spite of imformation given to the contrary?
 

UnconTROLLed

perfection
That in it self is a problem. Why send an on car with NO local area knowledge to rectify re-looping in an area that may as well be a foreign country. Would make much more sense to use someone local whom has an in-depth knowledge of the area to be done as well as a good rapport with the drivers involved.

That is not necessarily true. Too much knowledge can be a bad thing, sometimes. Just because you do something one way, and have it mastered, does not mean it is as good as another way or could not be improved.
 

UPSGUY72

Well-Known Member
Since we don't have ORION, exactly in what way is it an improvement over PAS/EDD?

It Micro-manges to the point of absurdity gives you specific times to be at stops and make deliveries without taking in consideration all the variables ( traffic, stoplight, weather, etc)
 

scratch

Least Best Moderator
Staff member
It Micro-manges to the point of absurdity gives you specific times to be at stops and make deliveries without taking in consideration all the variables ( traffic, stoplight, weather, etc)

So you ignore it for the most part like we do EDD?:wink2:
 

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
Do you know the answers to these questions or is your knee jerk reaction to defend the system in spite of imformation given to the contrary?

Yes... I know the answer.

Is my response knee jerk, or are the others?

The only thing I saw posted are opinions....

If Miles are reduced. Paid Day reduced. SPORH increased. SPM increased, how can one post that its a waste of money?

I would say that those are facts.
 

scratch

Least Best Moderator
Staff member
If Miles are reduced. Paid Day reduced. SPORH increased. SPM increased, how can one post that its a waste of money?

I would say that those are facts.

So are you saying that ORION is supposed to replace the driver's area knowledge? The way that I will deliver a section will vary from day to day, depending on where my stops are.
 

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
So are you saying that ORION is supposed to replace the driver's area knowledge? The way that I will deliver a section will vary from day to day, depending on where my stops are.

Not replace it. Augment it.

It will show you a way to deliver that reduces miles and time. If you can do better, you should.

Yes, the way you deliver a section will vary. Just like you don't follow EDD 100%, either will it.

As it was explained to me, it will not hop all around the car. That would be stupid. But it will adjust depending on the stops in the car that day.

It will see things you can't. You will see things it can't.

If you follow it 80% and reduce miles, that's a good thing.

Something like 10 centers have done that. Every one improved significantly. (That doesn't mean that every driver did, but every center as a whole)
 

Re-Raise

Well-Known Member
Not replace it. Augment it.

It will show you a way to deliver that reduces miles and time. If you can do better, you should.

Yes, the way you deliver a section will vary. Just like you don't follow EDD 100%, either will it.

As it was explained to me, it will not hop all around the car. That would be stupid. But it will adjust depending on the stops in the car that day.

It will see things you can't. You will see things it can't.

If you follow it 80% and reduce miles, that's a good thing.

Something like 10 centers have done that. Every one improved significantly. (That doesn't mean that every driver did, but every center as a whole)

So you have the numbers from upsguy72's center or you just have a gut feeling that he is wrong because it has to be working the way they told you it would at the meeting?
 

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
So you have the numbers from upsguy72's center or you just have a gut feeling that he is wrong because it has to be working the way they told you it would at the meeting?

Yes. I have personally seen the numbers. I saw the detailed information.

I would have to look in email to see if I can find the presentation again. But the results were clear.

The last time that it was incorrectly posted that this was a waste of money, I went and checked.

As I recall, he was from Pittsfield? Is that right? I checked on their results as well as the rest....
 

UPSGUY72

Well-Known Member
Yes. I have personally seen the numbers. I saw the detailed information.

I would have to look in email to see if I can find the presentation again. But the results were clear.

The last time that it was incorrectly posted that this was a waste of money, I went and checked.

As I recall, he was from Pittsfield? Is that right? I checked on their results as well as the rest....

All they had to do was fix the EDD order in the first place instead of recreating the wheel for the 100th time.
 

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
All they had to do was fix the EDD order in the first place instead of recreating the wheel for the 100th time.

So, are you saying that gains were made but it was only due to fixing EDD? Or are you saying that no gains were made?

Below is your original post. In that post you said that everything was a total failure and that EDD was returned to the original.

Which is it?

"It seems that after over a year of trying to implement the ORIAN program /system in my old building it was a total failure. So much so they pulled out the program and the people that where there trying to make it work and returned the EDD to what it was before.

Another big waste of money. At least this time UPS figured out you can put a square peg into a round hole even though it took over a year. "
 

SignificantOwner

A Package Center Manager
Success of the system will be determined by the way State Street Corp, The Vanguard Group, Capital Research Global Investors, BlackRock, T. Rowe Price, and the other institutional shareholders (see yahoo for the list) view it. Our upper management is beholden to them. They'll have to promise huge returns in order to not agitate the institutions when the money is spent to implement. What's good for BlackRock isn't necessarily good for front line UPS employees. None of us should expect it to feel good when it comes. I am not looking forward to getting it.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
Not replace it. Augment it.

It will show you a way to deliver that reduces miles and time. If you can do better, you should.

Yes, the way you deliver a section will vary. Just like you don't follow EDD 100%, either will it.

If it truly is nothing more than a guide, that can be overridden as needed by the driver to account for variables or changing conditions or plain old logic and common sense, then it sounds like it might be a useful tool to have.

But you and I both know that it isnt going to be implemented that way.

There will be a metric that quantifies what percentage of your route is being run according to the new program. That metric will be an arbitrary number, conjured up by someone in a cubicle who probably never drove a package car in his life. And generating that metric in order to justify the expense of the new system will become priority#1. Your supervisor wont care how many extra miles you might rack up in the process and he wont care if it takes you longer to do the route and he wont care how many customers get pissed off about late or inconsistent delivery times. The only thing he will care about....is that you generate that metric so that he wont show up on a report.

24 years at UPS has taught me never to underestimate the absurd and downright stupid lengths that our management people will sometimes go to in their desperate attempts to chase a number. ORIAN is just another number to chase. Im sorry but I have seen this movie many times before, and I already know how it is going to end.
 

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
If it truly is nothing more than a guide, that can be overridden as needed by the driver to account for variables or changing conditions or plain old logic and common sense, then it sounds like it might be a useful tool to have.

But you and I both know that it isnt going to be implemented that way.

There will be a metric that quantifies what percentage of your route is being run according to the new program. That metric will be an arbitrary number, conjured up by someone in a cubicle who probably never drove a package car in his life. And generating that metric in order to justify the expense of the new system will become priority#1. Your supervisor wont care how many extra miles you might rack up in the process and he wont care if it takes you longer to do the route and he wont care how many customers get pissed off about late or inconsistent delivery times. The only thing he will care about....is that you generate that metric so that he wont show up on a report.

24 years at UPS has taught me never to underestimate the absurd and downright stupid lengths that our management people will sometimes go to in their desperate attempts to chase a number. ORIAN is just another number to chase. Im sorry but I have seen this movie many times before, and I already know how it is going to end.

Yes... of course there will be metrics. There should be.

The most important one will be the miles you run.

If ORION says you can run your route in 110 miles and you do close to that (or do better than it), all other numbers are irrelevant.

So, the key will be if you can beat the miles that ORION thinks you can run.

Based on what they showed me, every center improved their miles substantially.
 

brownmonster

Man of Great Wisdom
Yes... of course there will be metrics. There should be.

The most important one will be the miles you run.

If ORION says you can run your route in 110 miles and you do close to that (or do better than it), all other numbers are irrele

So, the key will be if you can beat the miles that ORION thinks you can run.

Based on what they showed me, every center improved their miles substantially.

A computer program cannot make up for the stupidity of some of the dispatch.
 
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