Here's one for ya...

[dezguy]

No one is assigning full blame to the union, but let's not be naive. The UAW blissfully exacerbated the problems of Detroit and did not give a flying fornication until it was too late. It's not the Big 3's fault that the rank and file would not budge once the writing was on the wall.

Are you freaking kidding? The auto unions in both the US and Canada have been giving concessions for decades, trying to keep plants open. Now that the auto makers are back to turning a profit, they're still looking for the auto workers to give up more.

 

[MrFedEx]

I couldn't possibly like it as much as you because you've been taking it far longer than I have and, even with your awesome qualifications and multiple job offers that you keep turning down, you'll stick around and keep taking it. Shut your mouth and keep taking it, just as you have, just as you are, just as you will.

I "take it" because I'm around 50 and don't have that many options to leave...simple reality. If I were 40 or maybe even 45...out like a flash. You see, your beloved Fred promised employees like me one thing, and then delivered another, and with no union contract to protect things like profit sharing and benefits, Freddy cashed-in at my expense.

Your mouth needs to be shut because it spews corporate lies. Yeah, I totally believe that VW was meeting all the needs of their employees and that an evil union wasn't necessary...just like FedEx. I'm glad you're happy with what you're getting, but then again, you're on the corporate payroll. not the hourly payroll, right?

Shill-boys suck like a Hoover and kneel like a holy man.

 

[Serf]

Oh geez....One more time.....Because with a binding contract with a union, there are scheduled pay raises that can't be taken away on a whim (ala' Fred S) and usually decent raises too. Not some crappy 2% every third year. What about retirement? Some CEO (like Fred) can't just go changing it with a stroke of a pen because it's not to his liking. Also it's much harder to be fired because the plant manager doesn't like the way you part your hair.

I could go on but you and Dano just don't get it.

Yes with all the binding contractual obligations Union representation can provide and good things that can come your way. Politicians and CEO's can always muster the power to break the back of unions. And always have. Since 9/11 the economy as it pertains to FedEx has changed drastically. Shrinking the overall size of express has been the goal since then. Cut everyone to the bone, figure out how to still employ people and turn a profit.

Under the capitalist flag which IS America, and unfortunately for the worlds indigenous socialists, the biggest corporations in the world are aligned with and basically own the worlds largest companies. But Migrant Worker!!!! "Without unions all workers would be back in the dark ages. We gave you Monday-Friday work weeks, 40 hours, paid vacation, holiday, maternity leave, etc." But since then: unions reward laziness. Promotions usually don't lead to the most qualified person getting the job, they have to promote the person who has the most seniority. They pocket your money and tell you it's for your own good. If the American way is capitalism, then why would companies align themselves with union organization? Why would companies allow these organizations to fatten there members pockets at the expense of the rest of society? As well as float the overhead costs of union representation, all of the union leadership making ridiculously high salaries. Lastly, If you think I totally off my rocker. Remember when President Obama promised to deliver a Union to Express back in 2008?

 

[Serf]

I "take it" because I'm around 50 and don't have that many options to leave...simple reality. If I were 40 or maybe even 45...out like a flash.

You say your around 50. So assuming 48 or 49. So that's the expiration date on self worth and pride? 45 to 48/49ish is that big of a gap in between moving on to something else or just whining and saying whoa is me? I find it so pathetic that people who aren't as innovative or as smart as successful people not only cannot see it. Vilify them for being wealthy.

 

[59 Dano]

Oh geez....One more time.....Because with a binding contract with a union, there are scheduled pay raises that can't be taken away...

They take away the raises when they shut down the plan and you lose your job, as has happened at lots of auto plants in the United States. Have you not been paying attention to the news for the past 30 years?

 

[Cactus]

They take away the raises when they shut down the plan and you lose your job, as has happened at lots of auto plants in the United States. Have you not been paying attention to the news for the past 30 years?

Talk about muddying the waters and confusing the issue. You're a true Memphis BS artitst.


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[59 Dano]

Are you freaking kidding? The auto unions in both the US and Canada have been giving concessions for decades, trying to keep plants open.

I said that they would not budge until THE WRITING WAS ON THE WALL. And even then, it was hard to get them to wake up. Did you miss the Ford/UAW negotiations and contract vote of late 2009?

 

[Cactus]

Yes with all the binding contractual obligations Union representation can provide and good things that can come your way. Politicians and CEO's can always muster the power to break the back of unions. And always have. Since 9/11 the economy as it pertains to FedEx has changed drastically. Shrinking the overall size of express has been the goal since then. Cut everyone to the bone, figure out how to still employ people and turn a profit.

Under the capitalist flag which IS America, and unfortunately for the worlds indigenous socialists, the biggest corporations in the world are aligned with and basically own the worlds largest companies. But Migrant Worker!!!! "Without unions all workers would be back in the dark ages. We gave you Monday-Friday work weeks, 40 hours, paid vacation, holiday, maternity leave, etc." But since then: unions reward laziness. Promotions usually don't lead to the most qualified person getting the job, they have to promote the person who has the most seniority. They pocket your money and tell you it's for your own good. If the American way is capitalism, then why would companies align themselves with union organization? Why would companies allow these organizations to fatten there members pockets at the expense of the rest of society? As well as float the overhead costs of union representation, all of the union leadership making ridiculously high salaries. Lastly, If you think I totally off my rocker. Remember when President Obama promised to deliver a Union to Express back in 2008?

First of all I don't remember Obama specifically promising a union to Express. I recall the Employee Free Choice Act which not surprisingly fell off the radar. Obama had his private meeting with Smith which meant we were guaranteed to be screwed once again with this RLA crap.

Admittedly the unions aren't perfect but it's a much better deal than Fred screwing us out of something on a weekly basis. Once again look what the UPS drivers make compared to us and with a much better retirement and free insurance.

By the way, no need to turn every post you make into some history lesson.



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[59 Dano]

I "take it" because I'm around 50 and don't have that many options to leave...simple reality. If I were 40 or maybe even 45...out like a flash.

LOL! It was the need for your real estate portfolio to regain some value that was keeping you here. Then it was because you were fighting for change. Then it was only because you or your wife needed the insurance benefits (that you hate). Then it was because you were going to engage in subterfuge. And now it's because you're too old? LOL!

You don't have that many options to leave? Gosh, maybe you should have taken one of those great job offers that you bragged about getting instead of playing on a message board.

 

[dezguy]

I said that they would not budge until THE WRITING WAS ON THE WALL. And even then, it was hard to get them to wake up. Did you miss the Ford/UAW negotiations and contract vote of late 2009?

They have been budging for decades! Concessions have been going on since the early 90's.

I find it hilarious you bring up the 2009 negotiations. You mean the negotiations that happened a year after Mullaly received something like a million dollars in bonuses while the company lost upwards of $15 billion dollars? Hmmm, I don't understand why the auto workers weren't going to back down. /sarcasm

 

[59 Dano]

1. Is pay and jobs stagnant because they are trying to sabotage the system with a Democratic President? They are making more money than ever, but they are acting very stingy on raises and hiring? So if/when a Republican becomes President again, does it shift? And then things like "See, we told you conservatism is better for the economy". I see no real reason why pay and beni's are getting cut at this time.

2. The Affordable Health Care act has to be a very perplexing one for them. They don't want the other side to get credit for a successful institutional change, that will look bad. So they hope for fail and again sabotage things to try to ensure failure. But at the same time the big companies hate skyrocketing health care no matter if the affordable health care act existed or not, health care has been skyrocketing for decades.

So what could they devise? We'll give less coverage and charge them more for it (hence save us $$$) and then blame it on the affordable health care act as to why people feel jip'd. Because face it, we already have 40% of the population that will support to death anything we say as a conservative, that is more than enough to muddy the waters.

I don't know what you read or listen to, but if it has influenced you to the point that you're willing to entertain the idea that big business is conspiring to sabotage its own income for the sake of petty partisan silliness... wow.

 

[59 Dano]

They have been budging for decades! Concessions have been going on since the early 90's.

The writing was on the wall in the early to mid 80's.

I find it hilarious you bring up the 2009 negotiations. You mean the negotiations that happened a year after Mullaly received something like a million dollars in bonuses while the company lost upwards of $15 billion dollars? Hmmm, I don't understand why the auto workers weren't going to back down. /sarcasm

Yes, the negotiations that kept the company out of bankruptcy and preserved the jobs of those who rejected the contract. You have to be a special type of STUPID to put your own livelihood in jeopardy because you didn't think the CEO deserved his bonus. A person who would do that has his priorities out of sync. Thank you for the example of UAW members being unbelievably hardheaded.

 

[dezguy]

The writing was on the wall in the early to mid 80's

Still not the unions fault that the big 3 couldn't see the forest for the trees. Again, the companies didn't have to give what they did. They could have negotiated longer or held their ground but they didn't because the big 3 were making billions.

Yes, the negotiations that kept the company out of bankruptcy and preserved the jobs of those who rejected the contract. You have to be a special type of STUPID to put your own livelihood in jeopardy because you didn't think the CEO deserved his bonus. A person who would do that has his priorities out of sync. Thank you for the example of UAW members being unbelievably hardheaded.

What kind of world do you live in where someone deserves $1 million in bonuses for losing $15 billion?!?!

 

[59 Dano]

Still not the unions fault that the big 3 couldn't see the forest for the trees. Again, the companies didn't have to give what they did. They could have negotiated longer or held their ground but they didn't because the big 3 were making billions.

LOL, so now it's the company's fault for negotiating a "fair" contract with the UAW. Whatever it takes to completely absolve the union from any responsibility.

What kind of world do you live in where someone deserves $1 million in bonuses for losing $15 billion?!?!

In one when during the worst global automotive crisis in history, during what is billed as the worst recession since the Great Depression,he keeps the company from going bankrupt (unlike GM and Chrysler), he keeps it from having to borrow money from the government (unlike GM and Chrysler), and Ford's losses were the least of the Big 3.

Oh yeah, he took a pay cut of nearly 40%. The he turned a profit the next year.

So let me turn the question to you. You've got a guy at the helm in the middle of a global crapstorm. He's taking a pay cut of nearly 40%. He can ride out the storm in MUCH better shape than the other 2 competitors and go from $15 billion in losses one year to $2.7 billion in profit the next and a total of $39 billion in profits over the course of the next 4. All without declaring bankruptcy or taking loans from the government.

You don't think that's worth a million dollars?

 

[MrFedEx]

LOL, so now it's the company's fault for negotiating a "fair" contract with the UAW. Whatever it takes to completely absolve the union from any responsibility.



In one when during the worst global automotive crisis in history, during what is billed as the worst recession since the Great Depression,he keeps the company from going bankrupt (unlike GM and Chrysler), he keeps it from having to borrow money from the government (unlike GM and Chrysler), and Ford's losses were the least of the Big 3.

Oh yeah, he took a pay cut of nearly 40%. The he turned a profit the next year.

So let me turn the question to you. You've got a guy at the helm in the middle of a global crapstorm. He's taking a pay cut of nearly 40%. He can ride out the storm in MUCH better shape than the other 2 competitors and go from $15 billion in losses one year to $2.7 billion in profit the next and a total of $39 billion in profits over the course of the next 4. All without declaring bankruptcy or taking loans from the government.

You don't think that's worth a million dollars?

AM...yes. Fred S...no.

 

[Serf]

By the way, no need to turn every post you make into some history lesson.

Every post should have some sort of a history lesson. This way we can all learn something. Or at the very least discuss and debate what HISTORY has taught us.

 

[Cactus]

Every post should have some sort of a history lesson. This way we can all learn something. Or at the very least discuss and debate what HISTORY has taught us.

Well when we want one, we'll ask for one. No need to shove them down our throats.


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[CJinx]

The "history lesson" brings perspective to the opinion expressed. What do you bring to the table?

 

[TUT]

I don't know what you read or listen to, but if it has influenced you to the point that you're willing to entertain the idea that big business is conspiring to sabotage its own income for the sake of petty partisan silliness... wow.

Petty? We can see it's Party before Country and there is no reason to think this doesn't bleed into business. I think it is naive not to. WOW (in caps!).

 

[dezguy]

LOL, so now it's the company's fault for negotiating a "fair" contract with the UAW. Whatever it takes to completely absolve the union from any responsibility.

So if you're the union, you're going to say "no, that's okay. We don't want a fair contract because things might get rough for the company in the future? You take what you can get when you can get it. Would you turn down a raise just in case the company runs into problems in the future? Problems that weren't your fault in the first place?

In one when during the worst global automotive crisis in history, during what is billed as the worst recession since the Great Depression,he keeps the company from going bankrupt (unlike GM and Chrysler), he keeps it from having to borrow money from the government (unlike GM and Chrysler), and Ford's losses were the least of the Big 3.

Oh yeah, he took a pay cut of nearly 40%. The he turned a profit the next year.

So let me turn the question to you. You've got a guy at the helm in the middle of a global crapstorm. He's taking a pay cut of nearly 40%. He can ride out the storm in MUCH better shape than the other 2 competitors and go from $15 billion in losses one year to $2.7 billion in profit the next and a total of $39 billion in profits over the course of the next 4. All without declaring bankruptcy or taking loans from the government.

You don't think that's worth a million dollars?

Even with a 40% pay cut, he still made $2 million in salary. But that's ok, the guy working the line making $60 000 was the problem, right? And I think you should check your sources because Ford did accept money from the government.