HOW do I file a grievance?

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by ovid, Sep 21, 2007.

  1. ovid

    ovid New Member

    I told my union steward that I want to file a grievance, and she keeps telling me that she will "talk with the boss" for me instead (and stonewalls me with that, when I say "no, I really want to file a grievance")... which invariably leads to someone in management blowing smoke up my ass.
    So what does one do in a situation like this??? Anyway to jump over her head here? Any help appreciated.
  2. paidslave

    paidslave New Member

    Re: HOW to start a new thread?

    HOW to start a new thread? For the life of me I don't know how to start a new thread here. Anybody with help it would be appreciated. Thanks! :)
  3. moreluck

    moreluck golden ticket member

    Click on UPS Discussions at the top, then
    at the very top, the brown button is " new thread"
  4. dillweed

    dillweed Well-Known Member

    ovid, can you telll us the issue? Some issues are worth filing a grievance and some don't do a bit of good.

    For example, the union doesn't like to interfere with hourly to hourly squabbles. They prefer that we are united against management's games. They handle this by pressuring management to handle the squabbles and make sure dignity and respect are encouraged. Many times the two hourlies can just be moved to different areas of the building. If management doesn't make the move, union can grieve management's inability to control the situation.

    You just may have a no balls rep or one who resides in management's pocket. If you suspect this you may call the union hall and speak to someone higher up. But please make sure your compaint is well founded.

    If you share your problem someone will certainly be able to offer some advice. dw
  5. over9five

    over9five Senior Member Staff Member

    "So what does one do in a situation like this???"

    First, *SOMETIMES* the steward is right about this. They have a rapport (hopefully) with the management team, and this may be more effective than a grievance.

    BUT, you do not need the stewards permission to file a grievance. Tell her to give you a grievance form, and fill it out yourself. Be neat, keep it short, and try to include the article number you are grieving.

    In your case I would try to give it to the BA, since your steward is against it. Remember there is a timeliness factor, so don't wait too long.
  6. 705red

    705red Browncafe Steward

    Grievance filing 101, you have come to the right place. First of all what is the violation your willing to grieve? When did this occur? Was management aware of this? Was there any witnesses? You see I/we need more info to see if you have a grievance. Not everything is grievable, if you feel more comfrtable private messaging me the info i can lead you the right way.
  7. LKLND3380

    LKLND3380 Active Member

    Does your local have a web site? They may have a grievence fourm for you to download and print. Here is an example: LOCAL 79

    Sometime the steward tries to resolve issues and if it continues then they can say they exhausted all efforts and are forced to grieve...

    You can contact the local and speak to your BA or President but 90% of the time they will tell you to talk to your steward. I am sure there is more than one steward in your building so maybe approaching one of the Driver Stewards, Preload Stewards, etc...
  8. Just Lurking

    Just Lurking Member

    Its amazing how the company does not know that there are violating the CBA unless its pointed out to them. :closedeye
  9. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    We in turn fire them both for fighting in which case the union now has to get off their arse and get involved.
  10. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    The first step of the grievance process can be the steward speaking with management. If it does not get resolved the steward can then still file the paperwork.

    You have a right to push the paperwork but it won't go far if your steward does not agree with the filing.
  11. dillweed

    dillweed Well-Known Member

    You are somewhat correct tieguy. Physical contact will certainly lead to termination but personality differences are often taken care of with a simple move to another area of the building.

    Believe it or not :ohmy: some employees see great humor in making another's job more difficult. Loosening the bottom of a heavy box can be funny when the contents fall out and make someone scramble. Facing labels down on purpose and holding large boxes to line up and slam another worker are also great entertainment. I've seen these stinkers moved to the unload for their shenanigans or put into a spot where they cannot foul things up. Some people don't mind these games and retaliate. Others don't see the humor and feel the games are making them work much harder than necessary.
  12. raceanoncr

    raceanoncr Well-Known Member

    It may be true that, in some cases, talking with management will resolve an issue. In our case, sadly, that is NOT true. We have been told, by THEM, that we have to file on everything! They will not resolve anything, no matter how clear cut it may seem. I don't understand this reasoning because I know they have to jump through quite a few hoops when a grievance is filed, heard locally, passed on to state or even the national level. Personally, if I was management, I wouldn't want to go through this so I would try to fix the problem before it got to that point.

    In many cases, I have had to file my own grievances without the aid of a steward. In rare cases, all stewards have been out, either on vacation or on disability. I have a stack of blank forms (which I recommend all hourlies obtain) and just fill them out as needed and fax or drop them off at the hall. No big deal.

    Personally, I wouldn't care if the steward agrees with my complaint or not because I don't file frivolous grievances. I file only on issues I KNOW I can win. Here, though, our current steward is a bulldog and will go after any injustice and not try to get something that isn't deserved.
  13. UPS Lifer

    UPS Lifer Well-Known Member

    I trained my people to come to me directly if there was a problem. If they didn't feel comfortable doing that they could go through their steward.

    Guess way or another they were still going to be talking with me!

    I always suggest going right to the manager with a concern or compliant. If the manager is an a-hole than do what you got to do. BUT - I would suggest taking it up another level to the division manager. This does 2 things for you - 1 - It puts the manager on notice and 2 - you can open a dialog with the person that actually sets the agenda for the manager. You will be able to determine where your concerns really lie.

    I really believe that grievences should be very limited. It is my opinion that a manager is ineffective if there are a lot of grievences filed. Believe it or not, there are a lot of people (including union BAs) that agrees with this. This is first hand knowledge.

    My stewards and I had a extremely good relationship (they were not in my hip pocket!). We had weekly meetings and discussed any issue that needed to be resolved. The key to eliminating grievences is treating people with respect - keeping an open line of communication with all employees - really listening and working on a resolution that all can live with.

    I actually relied on my stewards to help keep me in tune to the pulse of the sort.

    These weekly meetings proved a good source of training for the 35 supervisors that I had. I used the content that was discused to train them how to follow the contract and what the issues were in their work areas. Stewards were always invited to any meeting I had.

    Talk to your manager first before filing a grievence. It will also let you know where he/she is coming from if you do need to go a different direction!
  14. raceanoncr

    raceanoncr Well-Known Member

    Well, Lifer, that's good to hear you had to kind of repoir with your people. I wish we did here. The PCMs that we have posted in various places that tell the supes and managers to shake the hand of the drivers when coming in from a safe trip and telling them what a good job they did? HAH!!! Here, you can't even get them to acknowledge you're in the same ROOM with them!

    I would like to go to managers and tell them about a potential grievance matter but it falls on deaf ears. I even pointed out, I think it was last yr, one thing they were refusing to pay on that we had filed on the previous yr and WON (same, exact issue!!) and they said, "Well, file on it". I did and won AGAIN!!!

    Here, I get more results and quicker, I might add, if I just bypass them. Sorry.
  15. UPS Lifer

    UPS Lifer Well-Known Member

    I would suggest you get with your BA and set up a weekly stewards meeting with your Division Mgr....If for some reason the DM balks get with the District Mgr to make it happen or call the hotline and go to corporate. Our district had a really bad repoir with the union a few years ago. It was so bad that the panels were about 3 months behind in clearing grievences. They were only taking discharge cases! Something had to give.....Both sides came together to come up with this meeting & comunication/concerns system and WOW did things change! It forced the managers to listen to the problems (not that it should be that way). Unfortunately there are folks on both sides that think this is some sort of war and they try to win one battle at a time.

    I can tell you from personal experience - if you were constantly knocking on my door with concerns - I would be in someone's face telling them to fix it!

    A system like this ultimately takes care of the people. It is like grevience machinery without all the paperwork and you can take care of quite a few problems quickly. The other thing it does is force communication between both sides and over a period of time each side gets to understand the other a little better and things should improve over time. I know that this may sound like BS but I personally have seen improvements in operations that I thought were lost causes.
  16. diesel96

    diesel96 New Member

    I agree with most of your post except this...Thru the years in our region a few Managers and On-Road Sup's with numerous grievances filed and won against them be it harassment, contract violations, monitary and senority issues, etc....seem to be the same few who got promoted, the same few who lack leadership ability and people skills. Lets face it there are some Mngr's you wouldn't lift a finger for and there are some you would go the extra mile for. Not all but some of the managers with the open door policies who you could really sit down and talk to were the unfortunate ones ask to be reluctantly transfered, demoted or ask to resign. Does UPS see this as a sign of weakness? Might be just my Center or is it the nature of the beast to promote individuals who might run over hourlys to achieve positive results?
    My question is , Does Upper Mngmt factor in people skills, HR complaints and grievances filed against when evaluating a promotion for a mangement position besides Education, Race and performance results?
    Oh, I just realized I ask you about 3 questions...sorry..Dont Taser Me Bro...LOL
  17. UPS Lifer

    UPS Lifer Well-Known Member

    It depends on who is in charge at the division and district level. What the folks in the Ivory Tower see are the traits and skill set the promotee posesses. It is like any other job interview - Who is pushing and selling (themselves) the hardest. Who wants the job the worst and who (with the power) has befriended that person (mentor) to help push them along. Like personalities attract like personalities. I have seen drinkers and golfers move up faster in some locals because the district staff was more prone to associate with those type of managers and get to know them better than others. The mentor does play a big part. Some folks in the company look at people that tend to get fast results (this can fit your profile - heavy handed).

    The folks that foster relationships tend to heal and mend relationships that came before them and take longer to achieve the results and so.....go un-noticed more easily. The big enemy of the "good" manager is too much movement - either their own movement or their possible mentor. These folks would most likely be the choice of upper management if the upper mgmt stuck around long enough to notice the long-term results. In some cases, this does happen!

    Upper mgmt does look at the candidates folder and HR complaints and grievences but these candidates for promotion have numerous interviews some are grueling and they may include a panel of members of the staff along with the HR mgr. A div mgr candidate even has a meeting with the Region Mgr before promotion. In our district, manager candidates have a final interview with the district mgr before promotion...and remember, as soon as you declare your intent to be promoted, you are under a microscope and all your actions are being scrutinized every day! Not a lot of people have the personality to go through this ordeal. Soooo, those with big man-berries seem to rise to the top!

    When I was promoted back in 1986 to manager - the division mgr just approved it and got the district mgrs blessing! This could be part of the problem in some of the areas throughout the country. If the division mgr has the district mgr's ear, he/she can get anything or anyone through the system. It is like politics - you work the people!
  18. diesel96

    diesel96 New Member

    Fair honest answers Lifer,THX for taking the time to talk shop during your retirement:thumbup1:.
  19. Griff

    Griff Active Member

    RE: UPS Lifer

    Things must be a lot different in Southern California because here I don't even pay attention to the stewards. UPS does a fantastic job of keeping the stewards happy through many, if not all, of the following: altering their timestudy so they run 200-300 clicks under allowed every single day, keeping them at 8-8.5hrs for the most part, never calling them into the office on anything. So much for honesty and integrity, what a joke. I go straight to a BA if I want anything done.
  20. UPS Lifer

    UPS Lifer Well-Known Member

    I realize that a lot of BAs have very good repoir with their members...BUT if I were the BA, I would want to know why you are not bringing the issues to the stewards...No steward should be in mgmts hip pocket. They have an obligation to protect the integrety of the contract and make sure that mgmt follows it. It is the BAs responsibility to make sure that is taking place....Wouldn't you agree? I really believe that the steward plays a key role in the relationship (upward and downward communication) between mgmt and non-mgmt folks.

    Where the issues lie in the contract are the areas that are left open to interpretation. It is quite litterally impossible to cover every situation. You would have a contract that would be impossible to manage. This is where the greivence machinery fills a need. It also helps protect the integrety of the contract.

    I can tell you with some degree of certainty that there are some mgmt folks out there who will read this post and may feel betrayed and think that I am union friendly.

    I would say...why not??? Isn't this the intent of what our founders had when they invited the Teamsters to represent the non-management folks back when the company was just getting it's feet on the ground? I feel that our mgmt team should also have an outside source to represent them in mgmt disputes!

    If we use these tools properly to settle disputes or intrepretive disagreements we can actually improve relationships and understanding rather than hurt them. However it does require respect for individuals and leaving personal attacks or vindictive behavior at the door.