I.E. is at it again!

[menotyou]

Are they willing to pay extra for this?

I would be curious if we would not be allowed to make a delivery attempt until the two hour window. If we are in that neighborhood and see the consignee is home do we attempt the delivery or do we have to come back later.

Yes.

 

[Jones]

Where I live NDA's can be delivered anytime. Just had an NDA delivered at 6:34 p.m. last night. These ladies, one's family last name is the same thing you did on an old rotary phone and they made soap, don't care about money. They will pay for NDA and premium delivery. Its the same up and down the river(St. Lawrence) and the lake(Lake Ontario).

I seriously doubt this service will be available in areas where NDA is an end of day commit. Those old ladies will just have to keep waiting.

 

[menotyou]

I seriously doubt this service will be available in areas where NDA is an end of day commit. Those old ladies will just have to keep waiting.

You can be the bearer of that news!!

 

[rod]

I picture a whole bunch of customers wanting their stuff delivered between 8:00 am and 10---------not realizing that at least around here the UPS trucks don't even leave the barn until about 9:30. So is UPS going the way of FedEx? Early NDA driver, early ground driver, regular driver? 3 different trucks derlivering the same area? Whats next- drivers having to buy their own trucks?

 

[soberups]

The service itself is simply another hoop for the driver to jump through.

I dont mind jumping through some hoops for $45 an hour on OT. But practically speaking, there is a limit to the number of different hoops that it is physically possible for me to make it through.

NDA and 2Day premium must be delivered by 10:30. NDA savers to businesses must be delivered by 3:00. All businesses must be delivered before 5:00, but not between 12:00 and 1:00 unless their posted hours are different, in which case the attempt must be made outside of whatever window of time they choose to take lunch in. My pickup route must be started at 2:50 and all 32 pickups completed by 4:30 when we meet the air shuttle that takes our outbound NDA and international volume to the airport.

You know what? I can handle all of that. I work hard, I'm good at what I do, and most of the time I can find a way to keep all of those plates in the air during the 10.5 hr juggling act of a delivery route. But when you throw in additional, self-imposed hoops such as "running 85% according to trace", "pickup compliance within 15 minutes", and "maintaining demonstrated SPORH"....while at the same time trying to meet an impossible corporate mandate for Stops Per Car....at some point something is going to have to give. A new service such as the one described in the OP sounds like a great idea in the abstract, but there is a limit to the number of hoops we can jump through and plates we can keep in the air at the same time and in most cases we are already at or beyond that limit.

 

[JustTired]

The service itself is simply another hoop for the driver to jump through.

I dont mind jumping through some hoops for $45 an hour on OT. But practically speaking, there is a limit to the number of different hoops that it is physically possible for me to make it through.

A new service such as the one described in the OP sounds like a great idea in the abstract, but there is a limit to the number of hoops we can jump through and plates we can keep in the air at the same time and in most cases we are already at or beyond that limit.

Not sure why....but this came to mind after reading your post.....

You know I drove a lot of miles.
Oh Lord! I delivered a lot of stuff.
But I've never done nothin'
That my spirit couldn't kill.
You know I've seen a lot of people walking 'round
With tombstones in their eyes.
But the pusher don't care
If you live -- or if you die.
G## Damn! The pusher.
G## Damn! The pusher.
I said G## Damn! G## damn the pusher man.
You know the dealer, the dealer is a man
With a stopwatch in his hand.
But the pusher is a monster
Not a natural man.
The dealer for a nickel
Goin to sell you lots of sweet dreams.
Ah...but the pusher will ruin your body;
Lord he'll leave your mind to scream.
G## Damn! The pusher.

thanks to Steppinwolf

 

[rod]

The service itself is simply another hoop for the driver to jump through.

I dont mind jumping through some hoops for $45 an hour on OT. But practically speaking, there is a limit to the number of different hoops that it is physically possible for me to make it through.

NDA and 2Day premium must be delivered by 10:30. NDA savers to businesses must be delivered by 3:00. All businesses must be delivered before 5:00, but not between 12:00 and 1:00 unless their posted hours are different, in which case the attempt must be made outside of whatever window of time they choose to take lunch in. My pickup route must be started at 2:50 and all 32 pickups completed by 4:30 when we meet the air shuttle that takes our outbound NDA and international volume to the airport.

You know what? I can handle all of that. I work hard, I'm good at what I do, and most of the time I can find a way to keep all of those plates in the air during the 10.5 hr juggling act of a delivery route. But when you throw in additional, self-imposed hoops such as "running 85% according to trace", "pickup compliance within 15 minutes", and "maintaining demonstrated SPORH"....while at the same time trying to meet an impossible corporate mandate for Stops Per Car....at some point something is going to have to give. A new service such as the one described in the OP sounds like a great idea in the abstract, but there is a limit to the number of hoops we can jump through and plates we can keep in the air at the same time and in most cases we are already at or beyond that limit.

keep those plates spinning:

 

[SignificantOwner]

If you're going to get mad at I.E. you have to at least get mad at them for the right reason. I doubt they came up with this service so don't blame them for that. Soon I'm sure they'll tell us that all the two hour window commits can be delivered in trace with no additional miles. Do blame them for that when you hear it.

 

[TheDick]

Agree triple OT ( whole bldg should be 9.5 w/o a grievance ) should be auto to the paycheck considering how dispatch adds and cuts by UOW (units of work) with zero interest and some zero capability of area knowledge. I'm sure my center manager will just say ("suck it up. Your paid 60$/ hour to deliver pkgs!")

 

[hurricanegunner]

When UPS came up with next day service, we drivers complained, saying we can't be everywhere before 10:30. Management responded by saying, "Don't worry; there won't be that many." Today in our center, they have done away with air drivers and someone has late air everyday because they ask for help, but receive none. How long will it be before someone in every center misses one of their silly two hour windows because they can't be in more than one place at one time? Pick ups will be missed, deliveries to businesses missed, and arrangements will have to made to bring in that driver's pick up pieces because he will be out after 8 because he had to break route to meet these silly two hour windows. As usual, the late air, the missed pieces, the missed pick ups and the late return to building will all be the driver's fault.
UPS does not seem to learn from their mistakes. Business as usual.

 

[dcdriver]

At our PCM this morning we were told about the new service we offer!(wait,thought we stopped servicing customers a year or so ago?) But anyway,now for a fee customers can dictate within a two hour window when their parcel will arrive!(Hey I.E.-How my dictate?) SERIOUSLY?!!! Its so not fair...ever since Ringling Brothers stopped hiring,you clowns got hired here. Guess this is UPS' version of bag fees. Whats next Bozo?

Run my route the same every day +/- 15 minutes. my customers know what time it is by the way i show up at their business every day after day. Its old school of delivery for all you newbies. This new service that you cry about is has been going on since day one @UPS.

 

[browniehound]

Customers dictating? -(never gonna happen)-
Hell, with the last minute add/cuts, we are damn lucky to get the pkg's in the allotted cars and make basic service.
Customers expecting reliable service is what this business was built upon.
Now, reliable service seems to need a premium price.

I agree and that crap would have to stop. This 2-hour window COULD be done IF UPS planned well enough and stopped screwing with these routes at the last second (add/cuts, cutting or adding a route 20 minutes before start time, etc.).

Let's just talk about add/cuts. They simply cause too many problems for everyone and there is no clear-cut benefit for anyone. The intention is to the level the dispatch, but what happens costs UPS because of the inherent errors that happen EVERY time! (i've never had/lost and add/cut that was completed 100%)

First, it causes problems with the preloader (beside his attitude). He loads the parcels according to the methods and then is told he has to pull it off after 435 pieces are also loaded on the package car. Now he must dig out 15 pieces among 435, cross the PAL label out and write the new one on in crayon and load it in the cage again (doing his job backwards). He has enough to do and I can't expect someone making $9.50 an hour to undue the hard work he did getting those pieces on there (how can you?).

Second, it causes problems for the driver and creates service failures. The one, two, three, etc. pieces left on one truck must now be delivered by a driver who was intended not to have that work that is not in his EDD. Which means he doesn't know its there and must break trace and/or backtrack to get it delivered at the end of the day. ie: its costing much money in OT and fuel. Also, the driver who is intended to have that work is now digging for parcels that are not on his truck. Aside from being very frustrating its costing UPS OT driver pay and minutes that it terribly wants to avoid.

The best one of all is when the preload ignores the add/cut completely and one driver has 15 more stops in his DIAD and 15 less stops on his truck(ok for him) and another poor bastard has 15 less stops in his DIAD but 15 more stops on his truck (not ok with this guy, LOL) and this occurs much too often.

So what happens in this case defeats the purpose of add/cuts and makes it money burner instead of a money saver. Either the driver stuck with the stops is told to deliver them (again without him knowing they are there at first thus making it difficult for him to plan his day and deliver them in the most efficient manner which will probably put him over 10 hours) or a meet-point is set up between the 2 drivers to transfer the work (more labor and fuel costs). I don't know about anyone else, but I don't have anytime in my day to meet anyone to GIVE away work never mind GETTING work stuffed up my package car.

We get busted on for taking a second too long putting the seat belt, but its OK to waste 20 minutes on average (40 when account for both drivers) moving parcels between trucks? The fact that we are moving parcels that are not being delivered or picked-up is a waste of time and money. For example, we are trained to only touch the package once when we load a pick-up because it saves seconds and seconds add up. Even if you pick-up 300 pieces and save a second on each piece that time is dwarfed by the meet point cost.

Lastly, my opinion is just leave the S--- alone for heavens sake. Just leave it alone. It works better on autopilot. Plan for our regular customers to get their delivery at a approximate time everyday by the SAME driver, everyday. Not 1 driver at 1040 Tue, Wed. Thur., and 2 others on Mon. and Fri. at 1430. Its embarrassing to ME when I HAVE to face these customers and rationalize to them why they are getting at 1430 delivery twice a week.

Our customers don't get it and there is no way of explaining it to them other than it benefits UPS (does it though?) this way and its a huge disruption for our customer's operation and doesn't benefit them in ANY way. This is the sentiment I observe everyday as a driver.

Now, back to Satellite's post, I have to say customers should be able to dictate or at least ask for a delivery window. 6-8 short years ago before PAS/EDD on all 20+ routes I knew I was at a customer's business like clockwork.

The new gig is PU compliance. UPS wants us to be within 15 minutes of the scheduled PU time. I can do this for every pick-up. Why can't or why aren't our dispatchers held to this same standard on the delivery end for our more important customers? They actually have it easy with a 2-hour window when every driver is held to the 15 minute pick-up window.

The bottom line and my last thought: Just set the routes up and leave them alone. Just leave them alone. Why do you have to screw with them from 7-9 AM? Just set it up and run them. Only tinker with them at the ebd of the day when the variables are much less.

UPS is concerned about the competition of Fed-Ex and FE Ground. We are told they are a threat.

Do you think they screw with their routes 20 minutes before dispatch? No, of course not. The efficiency is already built into these routes that have been planned 3 decades ago.

I'm sorry but every person I speak with shakes their heads when I describe UPS' operational philosophy.

Its my opinion that UPS makes money in spite of itself. Simply put they have a huge market share and route efficiency and stop density. Its almost impossible for them to not make money. It has nothing to do with the half-wits tinkering with the dispatch because if Fed-Ex vacated the landscape I could move my own company into its routes and produce the same profit, and there is no way I would tinker with the routes because THAT would be UPS. If its not broke, why fix it? It wasn't broke but UPS continues to try in fix it day after day.

 

[Backlasher]

Run my route the same every day +/- 15 minutes. my customers know what time it is by the way i show up at their business every day after day. Its old school of delivery for all you newbies. This new service that you cry about is has been going on since day one @UPS.

When you have 8 4 3 and 6000's wanting there del at 10 and their neighbors wanting them at 4p.m. will you not see an effect? Lol.

Sounds like you have an route that never changes Like how it should BE.
I get add cuts daily and 50% of route change with no effort at all in tying trace in sequence. It almost looks like they break up this one area into pieces on purpose. I have an add cut area that has parts in my 3's 5's and 8's. That has to be intentional.

 

[Backlasher]

I agree and that crap would have to stop. This 2-hour window COULD be done IF UPS planned well enough and stopped screwing with these routes at the last second (add/cuts, cutting or adding a route 20 minutes before start time, etc.).

Let's just talk about add/cuts. They simply cause too many problems for everyone and there is no clear-cut benefit for anyone. The intention is to the level the dispatch, but what happens costs UPS because of the inherent errors that happen EVERY time! (i've never had/lost and add/cut that was completed 100%)

First, it causes problems with the preloader (beside his attitude). He loads the parcels according to the methods and then is told he has to pull it off after 435 pieces are also loaded on the package car. Now he must dig out 15 pieces among 435, cross the PAL label out and write the new one on in crayon and load it in the cage again (doing his job backwards). He has enough to do and I can't expect someone making $9.50 an hour to undue the hard work he did getting those pieces on there (how can you?).

Second, it causes problems for the driver and creates service failures. The one, two, three, etc. pieces left on one truck must now be delivered by a driver who was intended not to have that work that is not in his EDD. Which means he doesn't know its there and must break trace and/or backtrack to get it delivered at the end of the day. ie: its costing much money in OT and fuel. Also, the driver who is intended to have that work is now digging for parcels that are not on his truck. Aside from being very frustrating its costing UPS OT driver pay and minutes that it terribly wants to avoid.

The best one of all is when the preload ignores the add/cut completely and one driver has 15 more stops in his DIAD and 15 less stops on his truck(ok for him) and another poor bastard has 15 less stops in his DIAD but 15 more stops on his truck (not ok with this guy, LOL) and this occurs much too often.

So what happens in this case defeats the purpose of add/cuts and makes it money burner instead of a money saver. Either the driver stuck with the stops is told to deliver them (again without him knowing they are there at first thus making it difficult for him to plan his day and deliver them in the most efficient manner which will probably put him over 10 hours) or a meet-point is set up between the 2 drivers to transfer the work (more labor and fuel costs). I don't know about anyone else, but I don't have anytime in my day to meet anyone to GIVE away work never mind GETTING work stuffed up my package car.

We get busted on for taking a second too long putting the seat belt, but its OK to waste 20 minutes on average (40 when account for both drivers) moving parcels between trucks? The fact that we are moving parcels that are not being delivered or picked-up is a waste of time and money. For example, we are trained to only touch the package once when we load a pick-up because it saves seconds and seconds add up. Even if you pick-up 300 pieces and save a second on each piece that time is dwarfed by the meet point cost.

Lastly, my opinion is just leave the S--- alone for heavens sake. Just leave it alone. It works better on autopilot. Plan for our regular customers to get their delivery at a approximate time everyday by the SAME driver, everyday. Not 1 driver at 1040 Tue, Wed. Thur., and 2 others on Mon. and Fri. at 1430. Its embarrassing to ME when I HAVE to face these customers and rationalize to them why they are getting at 1430 delivery twice a week.

Our customers don't get it and there is no way of explaining it to them other than it benefits UPS (does it though?) this way and its a huge disruption for our customer's operation and doesn't benefit them in ANY way. This is the sentiment I observe everyday as a driver.

Now, back to Satellite's post, I have to say customers should be able to dictate or at least ask for a delivery window. 6-8 short years ago before PAS/EDD on all 20+ routes I knew I was at a customer's business like clockwork.

The new gig is PU compliance. UPS wants us to be within 15 minutes of the scheduled PU time. I can do this for every pick-up. Why can't or why aren't our dispatchers held to this same standard on the delivery end for our more important customers? They actually have it easy with a 2-hour window when every driver is held to the 15 minute pick-up window.

The bottom line and my last thought: Just set the routes up and leave them alone. Just leave them alone. Why do you have to screw with them from 7-9 AM? Just set it up and run them. Only tinker with them at the ebd of the day when the variables are much less.

UPS is concerned about the competition of Fed-Ex and FE Ground. We are told they are a threat.

Do you think they screw with their routes 20 minutes before dispatch? No, of course not. The efficiency is already built into these routes that have been planned 3 decades ago.

I'm sorry but every person I speak with shakes their heads when I describe UPS' operational philosophy.

Its my opinion that UPS makes money in spite of itself. Simply put they have a huge market share and route efficiency and stop density. Its almost impossible for them to not make money. It has nothing to do with the half-wits tinkering with the dispatch because if Fed-Ex vacated the landscape I could move my own company into its routes and produce the same profit, and there is no way I would tinker with the routes because THAT would be UPS. If its not broke, why fix it? It wasn't broke but UPS continues to try in fix it day after day.

Dude, You hit the nail on the head with a sledge hammer. The route I've been covering is hacked and devistated daily and the dispatch lazily drag drops the pieces in random places on my trace or crams everything into my 8000's and leaves my 3000's empty. We have retards for dispatch. WHY AREN"T THEY HELD RESPONSABLE FOR THIS. If they're gonna add cut then at least tie it into a logical sequense. If multiple route are heavy then pull resi from each and run out a split car so we can Honor our commitment with our commercials and pick ups. Commercial and pick up.s should be priority. Don't drop a school or commercial at the last stop in 8000 inside add cut and expect a coverguy to catch it and pull it off.

We can comment on load quality in diad. Why can't we comment on our trace and dispatch. This shouldn't happen in the way they do it and if so then it should be addcut resi "ONLY" and in a proper sequense. It defeats the whole purpose of EDD PAS. It kills EDD PASS.



IT's about service!!!! crap I'm ticked just thinking about this. I ran expedited delivery before coming to UPS and was so excited to get this JOB. I was told how everything was in sequense and they toke the thinking out of it with there system and you would alsways be on same route and at same stop at same time every day. Customer could set their watch to us. YEAYEAYEA. Bullcrap. Only on a few routes that has had same bid driver on it for 20+ years has little change but those are few. All other routes are 50% different every day.

Was so proud to take this job but now 6 years driven later I know better.

 

[soberups]

When UPS came up with next day service, we drivers complained, saying we can't be everywhere before 10:30. Management responded by saying, "Don't worry; there won't be that many." Today in our center, they have done away with air drivers and someone has late air everyday because they ask for help, but receive none. How long will it be before someone in every center misses one of their silly two hour windows because they can't be in more than one place at one time? Pick ups will be missed, deliveries to businesses missed, and arrangements will have to made to bring in that driver's pick up pieces because he will be out after 8 because he had to break route to meet these silly two hour windows. As usual, the late air, the missed pieces, the missed pick ups and the late return to building will all be the driver's fault.
UPS does not seem to learn from their mistakes. Business as usual.

Self inflicted service failures are probably the most frustrating aspect of the job. Its even worse when your management team lacks the integrity to take responsibility for the incompetence of their dispatch and simply blames the driver for the failures.

One day last week I brought 19 missed stops back at 8:20 at night. I had warned my management team repeatedly throughout the day that the dispatch was hopeless, but they made a business decision to refuse to get me any help. The following day....I got a warning letter for "failing to follow proper methods." When I asked which specific methods I failed to follow, they didnt know. The warning letter itself is useless for any sort of disciplinary action, but since my management team lacks the authority to actually solve any of the underlying problems they simply spew out meaningless warning letters by the bushel in order to create the illusion that they are doing something.

 

[soberups]

Run my route the same every day +/- 15 minutes. my customers know what time it is by the way i show up at their business every day after day. Its old school of delivery for all you newbies. This new service that you cry about is has been going on since day one @UPS.

Lets see how consistent you can be when one of the routes they eliminate 15 minutes before start time is the one right next to you, and you wind up with a full day of your own work plus a "fling job"...40 extra stops flung into your car in a pile on he floor by some poor schmuck who has a preload sup screaming in his ear to get off of the clock.

Welcome to my world!

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Lets see how consistent you can be when one of the routes they eliminate 15 minutes before start time is the one right next to you, and you wind up with a full day of your own work plus a "fling job"...40 extra stops flung into your car in a pile on he floor by some poor schmuck who has a preload sup screaming in his ear to get off of the clock.

Welcome to my world!

View attachment 5477

Not a bad load in our center....actually the labels are facing up/out, which is a bonus.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Run my route the same every day +/- 15 minutes. my customers know what time it is by the way i show up at their business every day after day. Its old school of delivery for all you newbies. This new service that you cry about is has been going on since day one @UPS.

Actually, it's not. This will be more for our residential customers. Businesses are already leaving us for FedEx Ground due to cost--do you think they will be willing to pay us a premium to do what FedEx Ground is already doing?

As I have said I think we should wait for the specifics before dismissing this new service offering.

 

[menotyou]

Actually, it's not. This will be more for our residential customers. Businesses are already leaving us for FedEx Ground due to cost--do you think they will be willing to pay us a premium to do what FedEx Ground is already doing?

As I have said I think we should wait for the specifics before dismissing this new service offering.

My mother works for a paper company. The decision who to ship with is made at their corporate headquarters in Vermont.(I tried to have a sales lead for them once.) They decided to go with Fed-Ex for cost. 4 months after signing the agreement, Fed-Ex raised their cost to above UPS'. Rexam was locked into the contract, though. They didn't like the service, either. The minute the could get out of that contract, they did. they are back with UPS, now.

I realize people are jumping ship for cost. But, is it really worth it in the end? Not for Rexam DSI.

 

[menotyou]

Lets see how consistent you can be when one of the routes they eliminate 15 minutes before start time is the one right next to you, and you wind up with a full day of your own work plus a "fling job"...40 extra stops flung into your car in a pile on he floor by some poor schmuck who has a preload sup screaming in his ear to get off of the clock.

Welcome to my world!

View attachment 5477

We had a driver who was fed up with this type of load. I am not positive what he did, but he spent a lot of time in the office with the steward bitching. By the end of the week, his load had changed to labels out, and everything that was suppose to be on the shelves was. I somehow think this might not be possible anymore, as they have the guys loader loading 6.5 trucks. Can you imagine being the driver who has the .5 loaders?