Israeli Invasion

Was the Israeli invasion the right thing to do?

  • Yes: Any other country would have responded the same way

    Votes: 22 78.6%
  • No: Should have exhausted all political options first

    Votes: 6 21.4%

  • Total voters
    28
  • Poll closed .

wkmac

Well-Known Member
p.s. You just had to open that can didn't you. lol :peaceful:

You know it! :happy-very:

Why kick around the curb when you can just get down in the gutter!
:wink2:

Besides it you expose the truth on both sides that the dogma behind the claims are all man made, then neither side has any more legit claim than the other and at least the root cause of the strife is washed away. Might be a bit hard to rationalize dying for God when you realize God was never behind it to begin with!
:surprised:
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
See what I dont see is why the two sides couldnt have upheld the UN mandates, Isreal has its lands, Palestine has theirs, Jerusalem would effectively be a city state under UN protection, it would have been that simple. Could have been some hostilities? Of course, we still have incidents between N & S Koreans, but each culture would have had a land to call their own and the primary city of the 3 major religions of the region would be independent.

Forget that, let em' fight it out and settle this thing once and for all. Maybe if both sides destroy enough of one another with no help from anyone else, they might realize the fruitless pursuit and finally find some settlement among themsleves. Otherwise they just kill one another till either one or both peoples are extinct! Tragic, sad and completely unnecessary but it does solve the problem for the rest of us and we can go on with our lives.
 

chev

Nightcrawler
I think the really stupid part is anyone that believes their god needs them to die for him. It's just silly.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
I think the really stupid part is anyone that believes their god needs them to die for him. It's just silly.

I completely and absolutely agree with that statement but the truth is, there are people on bothsides that do believe this nonsense so there you go.
 

JimJimmyJames

Big Time Feeder Driver
I just wish there was a way I could "opt out" of having my tax dollars pay for any of this madness.

As for Jesus, I truly believe that He believed He was the Son of God. And for all of our sakes I hope He is right!

I personally have declared myself an agnostic with Christian leanings who is placing all his eggs in the basket of the deathbed conversion :angel2:.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
Here's the deal.

There are two "sides" to this conflict.

Only side "A" is even willing to negotiate.

Side "B" has a religious belief that side "A" needs to be exterminated as a nation and a race. Side "B" does not in any way recognize side "A's" right to exist and is unwilling to negotiate or compromise in any way.

Side "A" at least attempts to follow the internationally agreed upon rules of war. Side "A" at least attempts to minimize the civilian casualties it inflicts upon side "B", often at great risk to its own military. Side "A" seeks only to prevent terror attacks upon its own civilians. Side "A" even evacuated territory and told side "B" it could have it back, in exchange for not launching any more terror attacks. Side "B" then reoccupied the territory and resumed the terror attacks anyway.

Side "B" intentionally places its own civilians in harms way by locating its weapons in school buildings and churches. Side "B" has a religious belief that it is necessary to die and be martyred for its God. Side "B" then turns around and complains to the world about the death of all the innocent civilians that were killed by side "A" in order to turn world opinion against side "A".

Does anyone care to guess who is "A" and who is "B"?
 

nedroc

Member
Israel is the new Germany in the Middle East. Think about it. Hitler wanted only the pure German race to survive, create a great Germany that included most of Eastern Europe and Central Europe, and killed everyone who stood in the way including the Jews. Israel today is doing the same. It has expanded its territories beyond what used to be Palestine, Still occupies the Golan Heights in Syria and part of Lebanon. It also brings Jews from across the world and gives them immediate citizenship and land in the holly land.
By the way, for every Israeli killed and injured, about 500 Palestinians are killed or injured. Think about the defense arguments that some make. Now let us look at the Palestinians. They live in their ancestors land and have no rights, can not cross from one village to another without permission of the occupying Israeli army, do not have the right to travel, get jobs or even carry a Palestinian passport. Half of the Palestinian population still lives in exile (camps in Lebanon, Syria, and Egypt etc). Their homes, families, and livelihood are destroyed every day. Israel prevents the most basic human ingredients like medicine, food etc form getting to these folks. Yet in so many people's opinion in this post, they should accept it and just die.

Let us also look at the latest incident, about 6000 Palestinians are killed and injured and less than 15 Israeli impacted. And some claim in here that they are to blame. Get real. For the record, Israel's equal system was the one in South Africa.

It is your choice to be blind to the truth but it is not ok to force ignorance, discrimination, and occupation on others.

Simple question: Canada decides to invade Michigan because their newly found religion said that they are the chosen people and Michigan belongs to them. Michigan residents are given 2 choices: live as slaves, second class citiznes or leave. If they refuse both, their homes are destroyed, families killed and their land is taken. What should those people do. Fight or surrender. If you said fight, then you should understand why Palestinians are resisitng occupations and the Israeli killings. If you said surrender, then you are a hypicrate.... People would never know how it is over there unless they go look, see the truth and experience the Israeli massacres taken place daily....

Israel picked up where Hitler left and that is the rest of the story....It will come back to haunt these people when the US wakes up and see Israel for what it is.. BIG LIABILITY FINANCIALLY AND POLITICALLY....
 

chev

Nightcrawler
israel is the new germany in the middle east. Think about it. Hitler wanted only the pure german race to survive, create a great germany that included most of eastern europe and central europe, and killed everyone who stood in the way including the jews. Israel today is doing the same. It has expanded its territories beyond what used to be palestine, still occupies the golan heights in syria and part of lebanon. It also brings jews from across the world and gives them immediate citizenship and land in the holly land.
by the way, for every israeli killed and injured, about 500 palestinians are killed or injured. Think about the defense arguments that some make. Now let us look at the palestinians. They live in their ancestors land and have no rights, can not cross from one village to another without permission of the occupying israeli army, do not have the right to travel, get jobs or even carry a palestinian passport. Half of the palestinian population still lives in exile (camps in lebanon, syria, and egypt etc). Their homes, families, and livelihood are destroyed every day. Israel prevents the most basic human ingredients like medicine, food etc form getting to these folks. Yet in so many people's opinion in this post, they should accept it and just die.

let us also look at the latest incident, about 6000 palestinians are killed and injured and less than 15 israeli impacted. And some claim in here that they are to blame. Get real. For the record, israel's equal system was the one in south africa.

it is your choice to be blind to the truth but it is not ok to force ignorance, discrimination, and occupation on others.

simple question: Canada decides to invade michigan because their newly found religion said that they are the chosen people and michigan belongs to them. Michigan residents are given 2 choices: Live as slaves, second class citiznes or leave. If they refuse both, their homes are destroyed, families killed and their land is taken. What should those people do. Fight or surrender. if you said fight, then you should understand why palestinians are resisitng occupations and the israeli killings. If you said surrender, then you are a hypicrate.... People would never know how it is over there unless they go look, see the truth and experience the israeli massacres taken place daily....

israel picked up where hitler left and that is the rest of the story....it will come back to haunt these people when the us wakes up and see israel for what it is.. Big liability financially and politically....
That you actually have the nerve to compare Israel to Nazi Germany is total
bullshavitzzzz!
I think you must be
Ahmadinejad disguised as a UPS employee.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
nedroc;472717[COLOR=black said:
It has expanded its territories beyond what used to be Palestine, Still occupies the Golan Heights in Syria and part of Lebanon. [/color]

Now let us look at the Palestinians. They live in their ancestors land and have no rights,

http://web.archive.org/web/20090416064548/http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1060043.html

The database also shows that, in more than 30 settlements, extensive construction of buildings and infrastructure (roads, schools, synagogues, yeshivas and even police
stations) has been carried out on private lands belonging to Palestinian West Bank residents.

I guess "Thou shalt not steal" doesn't apply in all cases! I'd say Palestine can understand what it must have felt like to be Esau and be at the recieving end of Jacob's treachery.
 

UPS Lifer

Well-Known Member
Nedroc - Do you think you are a patriot or a pinhead!

Speaking of the nazis.... ( I am hijacking the thread for one post only!)
I have an 85 year old neighbor who is an author and a former RAF Bomber Pilot in WWII.

He is one of the most interesting people to talk to.

Back in 1939 - PM Neville Chamberlain was ousted and Churchill took over.

Churchill made Chamberlain part of his cabinet to instill confidence from the opposing party in his coalition government. A secret meeting took place where Hitler asked GB to side with them and there would be a Co (German) Prime Minister to stand along side Churchill and the nazis and GB would march into Russia side by side and take over.
The vote from Churchill's cabinet was 5 to 4 to reject the offer.

Guess who the deciding vote was ....Neville Chamberlain. History could have been a whole lot different!
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
This past week, it was revealed that the White Phosphorus used by Israel in Gaza came from the United States.

http://web.archive.org/web/20090205...article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003936897

I've no doubt this revelation will only increase tensions in the region for the US and make radical recruitment go up.

As I read the Geneva Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons at the link below, under Protocol 3 it defines incendiary weapons and in Article 2 lays out it's prohibitions around civilains and civilian objects

http://web.archive.org/web/20090609234729/http://ccwtreaty.com/KeyDocs/protocol3.html

Under Article 1, it defines what is an incendiary weapon and for the record it only identifies the weapon by what it does, not by specific name. In other words, white phosphorus by name is not listed as being an incendiary weapon but at the same time neither is napalm. Article 1 calls a weapon incendiary if it's deployment does or causes certain results that are specifically listed. It also states the following that an incendiary weapon is not:

b) Incendiary weapons do not include:
(i) Munitions which may have incidental incendiary effects, such as illuminants, tracers, smoke or signalling systems;

White phosphorus can meet this definition as it can be deployed as both for smoke and for tracer rounds. In the case of tracer rounds, in US and NATO standards, tracer round are normally made from a combination of strontium salts and a metal fuel of magnesium and even if WP was used in tracers, I'm not sure anyone is making the claim that small arms tracers were the source of WP in the photos getting passed around in the media. This would then move the argument over to an illuminant or smoke round which again is not considered an incendiary weapon.

First, I don't think someone would argue it was for illumination as the pics I've seen are in broad daylight. If there are night photos others have seen I stand corrected and the arguement for this may thus apply. But again, if deployed for illumination, this is not prohibited by any treaty or convention as it is not an incendiary device. I would think you'd only have to show just cause of it's use and as they say, game over!

Smoke. This IMO would seem the most logical arguement one would make to defend WP deployment which Israel has admitted they did and the US has admitted they sold them WP artillary rounds loaded at Pine Bluff. The State Department also stated these rounds are for illumination of a darkened battlefield or smoke cover for combat troops. Now the smoke cover does make sense but it only makes sense for example if say combat troops were posed to move into the area hit in order use the smoke as cover for it's operations. Now I have no idea what was the situation or what IDF troop movements were taking place but seems to me this whole matter could be answered quickly by IDF leaders showing International complaintants how they had troops positioned to move into the area hit and then the obvious use as smoke become apparent and the CCW violations disappear just as the smoke has.

If however there is nothing the IDF can show to support the use of WP deployment being for smoke cover, then Article 2 could come into play which is very specific when it comes to deploying incendiary weapons around civilians.

Article 2
Protection of civilians and civilian objects


1. It is prohibited in all circumstances to make the civilian population as such, individual civilians or civilian objects the object of attack by incendiary weapons.
2. It is prohibited in all circumstances to make any military objective located within a concentration of civilians the object of attack by air-delivered incendiary weapons.
3. It is further prohibited to make any military objective located within a concentration of civilians the object of attack by means of incendiary weapons other than air-delivered incendiary weapons, except when such military objective is clearly separated from the concentration of civilians and all feasible precautions are taken with a view to limiting the incendiary effects to the military objective and to avoiding, and in any event to minimizing, incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians and damage to civilian objects.
4. It is prohibited to make forests or other kinds of plant cover the object of attack by incendiary weapons except when such natural elements are used to cover, conceal or camouflage combatants or other military objectives, or are themselves military objectives.

#3 above could be an out for the IDF depending on the circumstances but I'm not aware one way or the other when it comes to this specific point. Seems to me that my point about the IDF using smoke for troop cover backs this whole arguement into Article #1 when Art. 2 ,Sec. 3 has no need or application.

#4, I've not heard Smoke Bear complain so I assume nothing is there on that point. Where this all goes from here it's hard to say but so far I've not seen much from IDF or the Israeli gov't that would seem to quash the claims made concerning CCW violations. If the allegations do prove true (and I say if because as yet it has not been proved one way or the other IMO) America will find itself in a very bad position when it comes to a matter of the rule of law and how it is seen globally in it's own quest of formitting global democracy and the rule of law around the world.

Our founders spoke well and often about resisting entangling alliances and this may become another example of why that was such wise advice.
 

nedroc

Member
That you actually have the nerve to compare Israel to Nazi Germany is total
bullshavitzzzz!
I think you must be
Ahmadinejad disguised as a UPS employee.

I am an American who loves this country and will not lower himslef to your level of calling names. I can tell you that traitors like you continue to decieve this country into supporting a Zioinst regime that is built on the ruins of 100s of thousands of people lives and homes instead of being working for a just solution that will be in our (US) best interest. Israel is a country that is built on killing, discrimination, racist ideaology. Try to have rights there if you are christian, muslim, hindu or other. You are a second class citizen. In any definition, that is what Nazieesim was all about...reagrdless, peace will come when Palestinians have their rights, homeland, and rights. When was the last time you cheked how many billions we dump as country to suport Israel and keep it afloat????
 

tieguy

Banned
Israel is the new Germany in the Middle East. Think about it. Hitler wanted only the pure German race to survive, create a great Germany that included most of Eastern Europe and Central Europe, and killed everyone who stood in the way including the Jews. Israel today is doing the same. It has expanded its territories beyond what used to be Palestine, Still occupies the Golan Heights in Syria and part of Lebanon. It also brings Jews from across the world and gives them immediate citizenship and land in the holly land.
By the way, for every Israeli killed and injured, about 500 Palestinians are killed or injured. Think about the defense arguments that some make. Now let us look at the Palestinians. They live in their ancestors land and have no rights, can not cross from one village to another without permission of the occupying Israeli army, do not have the right to travel, get jobs or even carry a Palestinian passport. Half of the Palestinian population still lives in exile (camps in Lebanon, Syria, and Egypt etc). Their homes, families, and livelihood are destroyed every day. Israel prevents the most basic human ingredients like medicine, food etc form getting to these folks. Yet in so many people's opinion in this post, they should accept it and just die.

Let us also look at the latest incident, about 6000 Palestinians are killed and injured and less than 15 Israeli impacted. And some claim in here that they are to blame. Get real. For the record, Israel's equal system was the one in South Africa.

It is your choice to be blind to the truth but it is not ok to force ignorance, discrimination, and occupation on others.

Simple question: Canada decides to invade Michigan because their newly found religion said that they are the chosen people and Michigan belongs to them. Michigan residents are given 2 choices: live as slaves, second class citiznes or leave. If they refuse both, their homes are destroyed, families killed and their land is taken. What should those people do. Fight or surrender. If you said fight, then you should understand why Palestinians are resisitng occupations and the Israeli killings. If you said surrender, then you are a hypicrate.... People would never know how it is over there unless they go look, see the truth and experience the Israeli massacres taken place daily....

Israel picked up where Hitler left and that is the rest of the story....It will come back to haunt these people when the US wakes up and see Israel for what it is.. BIG LIABILITY FINANCIALLY AND POLITICALLY....

that has to be the dumbust most outrageous thing I have ever read. You should spend a week in a german death camp before you are ever again allowed to foul the air with your stupidity.
 

chev

Nightcrawler
I am an American who loves this country and will not lower himslef(sp) to your level of calling names. I can tell you that traitors like you continue to decieve(sp) this country into supporting a Zioinst(sp) regime that is built on the ruins of 100s of thousands of people lives and homes instead of being working for a just solution that will be in our (US) best interest. Israel is a country that is built on killing, discrimination, racist ideaology(sp). Try to have rights there if you are christian(proper name), muslim(proper name), hindu(proper name) or other. You are a second class citizen. In any definition, that is what Nazieesim(sp) was all about...reagrdless, peace will come when Palestinians have their rights, homeland, and rights. When was the last time you cheked how many billions we dump as country to suport Israel and keep it afloat????
:please:Please......stop. You are killing me. You are talking from both sides of your mouth. First you say, "I am an American who loves this country and will not lower himslef to your level of calling names". Then, in the very next sentence, you call me a traitor. This really makes you so credible.
:rofl:
BTW.......I before E except after C..........
Sylvan Learning Center has some great grammar and spelling programs.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
Israel is a country that is built on killing, discrimination, racist ideaology. Try to have rights there if you are christian, muslim, hindu or other. You are a second class citizen. In any definition, that is what Nazieesim was all about...

That's the point Norman Finkelstein on his website I think was trying to also make when he posted this.

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=2510

BTW: Finkelstein is also jewish and both parents suffered in the Nazi Concentration camps of WW2. His conclusion(s) should give one to pause considering his family's background.

And who is Charles Glass?

http://www.charlesglass.net/profile/

Another opposition voice from an interesting perspective


There is growing jewish opposition to Israeli/Gaza policy


Global jewish opposition grows as an awaking grows

 

nedroc

Member
that has to be the dumbust most outrageous thing I have ever read. You should spend a week in a german death camp before you are ever again allowed to foul the air with your stupidity.
Well you can not spend a weak in a German Death Camp, But you can spend a week in a Palestinian Camp, can not wait to hear you report. Tell you, I will make you a deal, try living a week in Gaza under the Israeli Bombardment and let me know. I lived it and can tell you, it is hell on earth. Oops, Israeli Democracy...

obviously, if the opinion is not in line with this killer, slaughtering country called Israel, then it is not good. Well too bad... you can fool few but the world sees it clear now.

Ok. My stupidity. thanks for the education. I am better educated now by your great insight....
 

nedroc

Member
That's the point Norman Finkelstein on his website I think was trying to also make when he posted this.

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=2510

BTW: Finkelstein is also jewish and both parents suffered in the Nazi Concentration camps of WW2. His conclusion(s) should give one to pause considering his family's background.

And who is Charles Glass?

http://www.charlesglass.net/profile/

Another opposition voice from an interesting perspective

YouTube - Elderly Holocaust Survivor Heddy Epstein Protests Israeli Attacks on Gaza

There is growing jewish opposition to Israeli/Gaza policy

YouTube - Jews demonstrating against Israel in London - 10/01/2009

Global jewish opposition grows as an awaking grows

YouTube - Jews protest against Israel 2009

Thank you for adding these facts to the conversation.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
I think this is the correct thread but sometime back, comments were made about the media exposing so-called classified information concerning wartime actions or something to that effect. Today I was reading an article pertaining to AIPAC Execs. Indicted for Espionage and read the following that pertains to the earlier point.

[quote
Government prosecutors previously argued that since Leonard – a career government employee with expertise in the classification process – had been briefed about the case in 2006, he could not legally become a witness for the defense. Rosen and Weissman defense team lawyers expect that Leonard's testimony will throw down the gauntlet by saying that the U.S. government "over-classifies" information of the type AIPAC lobbyists sought and circulated. Leonard has examined the national defense information (NDI) Rosen and Weissman obtained and is said even to be prepared to testify that the "back-channel" practice of disclosing national security information to journalists and lobbyists can actually advance U.S. national security interests. Leonard is also expected to certify that the NDI released in the AIPAC case was neither closely held nor particularly damaging to the U.S. More curious still, Judge Ellis believes (according to his ruling) that Leonard may even be qualified to opine on whether the defendants could have been in a "state of mind" in which they believed their conduct was lawful. The 1917 Espionage Act is silent on such issues.
][/quote]

OOOOpps! I guess some people want their cake and eat it too while denying this to others!

:happy-very:
 
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