Labor For Bernie Sanders

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by agitator, Sep 30, 2015.

  1. agitator

    agitator Member

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  2. Wally

    Wally Hailing from Parts Unknown.

    What labor? Government workers? I can't see private sectors unions supporting him.
     
  3. agitator

    agitator Member

    It's time for a political revolution. But you keep supporting the corporatists. Fascism is right around the corner.

    “If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got.”
    Remember things will NEVER change until we do SOMETHING about it.

    Trump is a joke who will be gone before the Iowa caucuses. Sanders is in it to win.
     
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  4. JL 0513

    JL 0513 Well-Known Member

    If we had 4 years of Bernie, we'd have no labor left!

    It's amazing. People can't seem to grasp history or even current world conditions in the slightest. People supporting Sanders, an admitted socialist, somehow believe socialism works for the regular folks. It's hilarious and extremely scary at the same time.

    Free enterprise creates the most wealth for the most people. Our system of economics has forever changed the human condition. The vast majority of humans in world history have lived in poverty, and then America came along. Now, almost every American household has at least one car, all appliances, A/C, HD TV, and over eats.

    All the while, hard leftist want to emulate poverty stricken countries economic models thinking this is how we build the middle class.

    If Sanders plans went into action, the middle class would be obliterated. Only the rich and ruling classes would be standing in the end.

    It's so easy to observe the evidence everywhere and yet it is ignored.
     
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  5. MethodsMan

    MethodsMan Active Member

    Being in a Union is a form of socialism.

    Conservatives want you to believe Socialism is a bad word. This isn't Communist Socialism. Some of the worlds most striving economy's are in Socialist countries.
     
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  6. FrigidFTSup

    FrigidFTSup Resident Suit

    Which would those be? I hear Socialism is working great for the Greeks.
     
  7. MethodsMan

    MethodsMan Active Member

  8. FrigidFTSup

    FrigidFTSup Resident Suit

    I'm going to have fun with that link.

    And no, the banks didn't screw Greece. Their insane debt and pensions did.

    China. China's wealth doesn't come from most of the country. It comes from special economic zones. They're essentially capitalism free for alls. That is where all the electronics are. Not to mention they are running towards capitalism, not distancing themselves from it.

    Denmark. Workers rights? Forget about it. They have no minimum wage. A vat tax which is 25% (you know who gets hurt the most by a value added tax? The poor, not the rich). Overall tax rate is 46%. No thanks. Workers can also be hired and fired on a whim. The dream huh?

    Finland. An overwhelmingly services based economy. The only thing they produce is wood, now that Nokia has taken a dump. Income tax is 46%, VAT tax (you know that one that hits the poor again) is 24%. Tax burden accounts for 43% of GDP. We like to point to high taxes in Canada. Their tax burden to GDP is 33%.

    Netherlands. Overwhelmingly transportation based economy. They are in the business of moving shipping containers in and out. If someone is in that they are involved in overseas investments. Aka they are the evil rich people Bernie likes to rail against.

    Canada. It's a damn oil field. Easily to pay the bills when you're exporting a ton of energy. Something which is illegal in the United States. 50% tax rate. Sounds enticing. Who cares how much the union negotiates for you if half of it is going to Joe Schmo who wants to play Xbox all day.

    Sweden. It sits on an oil field. It's tax burden is 47%, with a VAT tax of 25%. Lets boost the price of everything 19% overnight. 53% of the population works for the government. That sounds sustainable.

    Norway. Norway is special. They don't just sit on an oil field. They own their oil company. The government owns 30% of all shares of stock in the country. If the world economy went into a recession tomorrow they'd be screwed. That's confidence building. Oh and yet another high tax rate at 47%. Almost double the average US tax burden. VAT tax at 25%

    Ireland. Ireland is a funny situation. A lot of companies organize in Ireland because the effective tax rate for corporations is 0%. They depend on foreign investment heavily. The government's inability to govern has lead to high interest rates for the citizens and a higher cost of living. They also have an 11% unemployment rate. But at least they're socialists. That way those rich greedy bastards can pay for those who don't have jobs.

    New Zealand. This one I like. Because New Zealand is facing what's known as a "brain drain" which essentially means people are leaving for better prospects. Glad socialism is working well for them.

    And last but certainly not least, Belgium. Belgium's debt is equivalent to 98% of it's GDP. Another responsible socialist government.

    That was fun. Thank you.
     
  9. Bubblehead

    Bubblehead My Senior Picture


    Not claiming to know all about Canada or numerous Scandinavian countries, nor am I completey up to speed on what Bernie Sanders is selling, but this needs to be corrected first and foremost.
     
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  10. FrigidFTSup

    FrigidFTSup Resident Suit

    What right do we have to demand the wealthy gives up more of their money? I don't get it. People say my generation is me me me. And the generation ahead of me is sitting here saying we deserve those rich people's money because I don't have enough.
     
  11. Bubblehead

    Bubblehead My Senior Picture

    I'm not purposing that the wealthy "give up" their money.
    I'm suggesting that this country was built on free market, supply and demand principles.
    These principles were to be guarded and balanced by what are now antiquated and manipulated anti-trust laws that are fueling the inequities that are illustrated in the video I linked this morning.
    People from my generation remember thriving small businesses that are now non-existent in many markets such as hardware, groceries, small and large household appliances, to name a few.
    These were usually family owned businesses, that were often cornerstones of many communities, but have been driven to extinction by multi-billion dollar conglomerations to which they cannot compete.
    I believe the term they use for them is "Big Box Stores"?
    Make no mistake, the playing field is no longer level and the "American Dream" as it was once characterized is dead, unless steps are taken to tip the scales back into balance.

    My lunch break is almost over, so maybe later this evening we can discuss the "crooked casino" that is the US Stock Market that is playing an equal role in the wealth inequity in America, where through manipulation, money makes money without any tangible byproducts.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 1, 2015
  12. JL 0513

    JL 0513 Well-Known Member

    ^^ Bix box stores is what's called progress. Now we can go to one place like Walmart or Target and buy virtually everything, and much cheaper than they are at a Mom and Pop. It's better for everyone, except yes, the mom and pop. That's just natural progression. You only go to a corner convenience store if you need to for convenience. You end up paying much more for much smaller selection. It would suck if we went back to when that was the only choice.
     
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  13. BrownBrokeDown

    BrownBrokeDown Active Member

    Exactly. This is the problem with giving Corporations and billionaires tax breaks. The idea is the will "trickledown" the saved money to the workers pay or create more jobs. The problem is this doesn't happen. That tax break money goes into the stock market as increased dividends or the billionaires pockets. It doesnt work for the non-union middle class anymore.
     
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  14. BrownBrokeDown

    BrownBrokeDown Active Member

    What sucks is the way the big box stores pays their workers. This prevents their workers from having the decision to go anywhere but the big box stores.
     
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  15. BrownBrokeDown

    BrownBrokeDown Active Member

    What was funny about my post HGB?
     
  16. HBGPreloader

    HBGPreloader Active Member

    If the big box stores are what you call progress, I want no part of it.
    I am fortunate to have several "mom and pop" stores in the area to frequent when I want or need something.
    Even though some items do cost a bit more than the big box stores, I am more than happy to pay the higher price because I receive better, faster and more personalized service from, generally, much more knowledgeable people. And, if they don't have a product I want in stock, they are more than happy to order it for me - ensuring I get exactly what I need.
    In addition, I know that more of my money is staying here benefiting my local economy, the least of which includes paying local taxes and employing my friends and neighbors - not a bunch of corporate fat cats in some far away land.
     
  17. HBGPreloader

    HBGPreloader Active Member

    I've watched the video before and it confirms economist Gruber's statements about the stupidity of American voters.
     
  18. BrownBrokeDown

    BrownBrokeDown Active Member

    What video?
     
  19. HBGPreloader

    HBGPreloader Active Member

    Supply-side or trickle-down economics - you mean like hundreds of billions on bailouts and stimulus?
    We know just how well they worked out.
    The fact is the top 20% of Americans pay more than 50% of all income federal taxes. When you look at all federal revenue, this 20% pays closer to 70%.
    Beyond that, according to Pew Research, all Taxpayers benefit from the more than $1.3 trillion worth of tax breaks that are allowed under the U.S. tax code.
    The largest tax break of $150.6 billion, which benefits the middle class the most, is the tax exemption of employer-paid health care, health insurance and long-term care insurance.
    Other tax breaks and/or exemptions include...
    Lower tax rates on dividends and long-term capital gains - $120.3 billion,
    Mortgage interest deduction for owner-occupied residences - $74.8 billion,
    Earned-income tax credit $70.4 billion,
    Contributions to and earnings of a defined-contribution retirement plans - $62.3 billion,
    Deductibility of (non-business) state and local income, sales and personal property taxes - $59.2 billion,
    Credit for children under age 17 - 57.3 billion,
    Contributions to and earnings of defined--benefit pension plans - $41.3 billion,
    Untaxed Social Security and railroad retirement benefits - $39.3 billion.
    These are all, currently, untaxed income that everyone should - in theory - be paying.
    Meanwhile, ALL federal corporate tax breaks in 2013 (the most recent year I can easily find) totaled $176 billion.
     
  20. HBGPreloader

    HBGPreloader Active Member

    Sorry, I got yours and bubblehead's posts mixed up. My reply to your post is above.