Marijuana the legalization of it?

[stevetheupsguy]

I do think we dedicate too many resources to fighting a substance that probably is no worse then drinking.

No worse?

 

[Catatonic]

No horse?

Dude ... no horse? ..Whatz up with that? ha ha . hee hee ha hee hee ha ah

 

[soberups]

I do think we dedicate too many resources to fighting a substance that probably is no worse then drinking.

Agreed....and I consider myself a self-taught expert on the subject.

Marijuana is bad for you. So is alcohol....and tobacco....and fast food....and sugar....and any number of other things that are allowed in a free society where adults make their own choices.

I dont want to live in a nanny state. If some stoner wants to blaze away in the privacy of his own home it should be his business and no one elses.

 

[moreluck]

Some stoner blazin' away invites your daughter to his party and offers her some.........different story now ????

 

[Sammie]

Cool, and lets bring our laptops like they do at Starbucks and pretend to be important people.

Great comeback!

But as far as legalizing the stuff? Nay.

I got off on the wrong foot when I left home at 17. "We are what
we repeatedly do..." It took me a while to experience, to the
point of boredom, that there were better lifestyles out there or I
could have stuck around to become the greatest underachiever in the world. Sadly, many of the same people from back then still haven't climbed out of a very unproductive hole. Nothing like living up to one's
full potential.

So my take, it's addictive, as is nicotine and in many cases not exactly "harmless." Do you know anybody who smokes only one cigarette a week? If grass were legal, would it not become easier for the general population to get their hands on it? What a hay day for those who lack any common sense in the first place; irresponsible pregnant mothers, children and the far too many parents who already "use" everything under the sun in front of and with their kids.

I'd have Sammie wearing a "Make Love Not War" T-shirt by the time we walked, no stumbled out of the reefer bar....lol

Sorry Deisel, those days are gone. I'd much rather become a caffeine
addict and truck on out of a Starbucks with you!

 

[chev]

Yes

Quite possibly. So?

What about them? Are you saying we need a special law for every person who "might" make a bad decision?

Since not everyone is of the same mind, why are we making laws to try and force everyone to act the same? Should we criminalize every behavior that you personally don't agree with? On what grounds? If you have read or know of a creditable study which demonstrates conclusively that marijuana use is so catastrophic in it's consequences to society as a whole that our only recourse is to criminalize it and spend billions of taxpayer dollars in a never ending "war on drugs", in addition to locking up thousands of otherwise law abiding citizens for the terrible crime of smoking a plant, I would love to see it.

As much as it pains me to do so, I have to agree with Jones.
Prohibition of alcohol was useless as is the prohibition of weed. The government has been ingraining the so called terrible side effects of marijuana in peoples heads for decades to the point that they are brainwashed into believing it. Let me clarify. I do think it is bad for you but no where near what we have been force fed. I believe mj is actually less dangerous than alcohol. Hell, tobacco is horrible for you and addictive to boot. Why is it legal as opposed to weed?
Do we really want the government regulating every aspect of our lives?

On the other hand, I don't believe anyone should put any of these poisons in their bodies. Being an ex smoker of 25 years, I understand what it means to be addicted to something. Oh how I wish I had never picked them up, but it was my decision and mine alone.

 

[JimJimmyJames]

Some stoner blazin' away invites your daughter to his party and offers her some.........different story now ????

My brother died of a heroin overdose but I do not blame anyone for that but him. I still believe in legalization of some drugs and decriminalization of others.

Personal responsibility can be a bitch but without it we are not truly free.

 

[stevetheupsguy]

My brother died of a heroin overdose but I do not blame anyone for that but him. I still believe in legalization of some drugs and decriminalization of others.

Personal responsibility can be a bitch but without it we are not truly free.

Wow, 3 j's, that took a lot of courage. Sorry for your loss, and thanks for putting some perspective on your thoughts.

 

[chev]

My brother died of a heroin overdose but I do not blame anyone for that but him. I still believe in legalization of some drugs and decriminalization of others.

Personal responsibility can be a bitch but without it we are not truly free.

I lost my cousin to cocaine a few years back. He couldn't handle the pain of disappointing his parents and family anymore and killed himself. It is very hard to loose a family member to drugs, but you are right. It is their decision and responsibility. I just wish I had been a little more involved in his life to know how much pain he was in. I can't help thinking I could have done something to help him.

 

[Sammie]

I'm sorry for both of your losses. I lost good friends to substance
abuse before any of us were even 21 years old. I don't want to live
in a police state and I'm aware of the arguments pertaining to the govt making us wear motorcycle helmets and seat belts, but if we can save
lives by not legalizing this stuff, then all the better.

This may seem absurd to some, save lives by keeping pot nailed down?
You see how much damage alcohol abuse causes. If other 'drugs' were legalized, don't think we wouldn't see more social problems as a result.
AA is very alive and well, thank you. Prescription drugs addictions are
very alive and well, thank you. Tobacco diseases, cancer, deaths.....

And if we legalize, we'll be subject not only to breathalyzers, but on the spot urine testing for the users who shouldn't be behind the wheel in the first place. You really want to go there?

 

[soberups]

My brother died of a heroin overdose but I do not blame anyone for that but him. I still believe in legalization of some drugs and decriminalization of others.

Personal responsibility can be a bitch but without it we are not truly free.

My first wife---the mother of my son---has been living in her car somewhere down in LA for the last 3 years and hasnt seen my son once in all that time. She is a crack and opiate addict with no teeth left. She has had legal issues, is not employable, and is totally incapable of functioning as an adult in modern society.

Prohibition of her drugs of addiction did not ever prevent her from obtaining them, it only forced the price of said drugs high enough to where she had to strip, steal, and prostitute herself in order to obtain the money.

I often wish, for my sons sake, that she would have been able to obtain her drugs thru some sort of govt. regulated program that could have provided them for the cost of a bottle of Advil. She probably could have lived in a halfway house and been at least semi-functional and able to hold down a minimum wage job and have some sort of relationship with our son.

As toxic as the drugs themselves are, the worst effects of drug addiction are actually caused by the fact that the drugs themselves are illegal, which forces addicts into the margins of society where they must engage in criminal activity and victimize others in order to support their habits via the black market.

An addict who was able to register as such and obtain pharmaceutical-grade drugs via prescription at affordable prices would not have to deal with criminals or commit crimes themselves. Such an approach would use the brute force of free-market capitalism to bankrupt the drug pushers who would no longer have a monopoly on their product.

The "war on drugs" is a farce. It is unwinnable. I know, I have been on the front lines of this war for decades and I have the battle scars to prove it. As a society we are simply beating our heads into a wall...and its not the wall that is bleeding.

 

[soberups]

And if we legalize, we'll be subject not only to breathalyzers, but on the spot urine testing for the users who shouldn't be behind the wheel in the first place. You really want to go there?

The right to use alcohol/drugs has nothing to do with the right to drive a car.

A person who would not wish to sumbit to a breathalyzer or UA can make the choice not to operate a motor vehicle on a public highway.

Once they choose to drive, they must accept the responsibilities that come with driving...which include reasonable-cause testing for intoxicants.

 

[Sammie]

My first wife---the mother of my son---has been living in her car somewhere down in LA for the last 3 years and hasnt seen my son once in all that time. She is a crack and opiate addict with no teeth left. She has had legal issues, is not employable, and is totally incapable of functioning as an adult in modern society.

Prohibition of her drugs of addiction did not ever prevent her from obtaining them, it only forced the price of said drugs high enough to where she had to strip, steal, and prostitute herself in order to obtain the money.

I often wish, for my sons sake, that she would have been able to obtain her drugs thru some sort of govt. regulated program that could have provided them for the cost of a bottle of Advil. She probably could have lived in a halfway house and been at least semi-functional and able to hold down a minimum wage job and have some sort of relationship with our son.

There are no easy answers, Sober. I'm sorry your former wife didn't have an active part in your sons life.

In response to your comment about how your ex could have lived in a half way house had she participated in a govt sponsored program, I'm not arguing with you, I'm just throwing this out there.

I have one child, a daughter, who never met her dad until she was 15. My current husband is her 'father.' Until then, I heard non stop what an
awful person I was because I kept her away from her birth dad, etc. etc.
So when I felt she was old enough, we went to where birth dad lives and she spent an afternoon with the Meth Head. And from then on, I've been criticized for letting her spend time with such a terrible person. Can't win.


Most likely a govt sponsored program would come with some sort of price tag for the participant. We'll give you a certain amount of drugs
and in return you'll become employed and live in a half way house. Or enter a methadone program. Or come in every week for counseling. Sounds reasonable to you and me, but the job and the halfway house and the meetings represent the same rules of society that the homeless avoid. At a halfway house you have to be in by 10:00 p.m. How long would that last opposed to the freedom on the streets?

I also can't see a convicted felon waltzing into a govt agency for drugs and risk a parole violation. Or high profile individuals. Or people on the run. Or gang members. Or people years behind in child support. Or someone who has already had their daily allottment of govt. drugs for the day and need more. Because of this, even if we were to step towards legalizing, our multi billion dollar underground drug industry still wouldn't disappear by a long shot.

 

[stevetheupsguy]

This thread and these points are so interesting. I have to tell you, those that have shared personal experience, thanks! This is actually how we'll break the grip that drugs have on us and our families. Thanks again, for sharing your personal experiences.

I had a couple of experiences today, while delivering. First one, I delivered to an apartment and when the guy answered the door, it was like that scene from Fast Times at Ridgemont High. I had to actually hold my breath.

The next one was similar, but with a twist. Same complex, guy opens the door, aroma of freshly burnt marijuana wafts out into the hallway. The difference this time, the guy answered the door with his 3yr old or less son.

 

[soberups]

This thread and these points are so interesting. I have to tell you, those that have shared personal experience, thanks! This is actually how we'll break the grip that drugs have on us and our families. Thanks again, for sharing your personal experiences.

I had a couple of experiences today, while delivering. First one, I delivered to an apartment and when the guy answered the door, it was like that scene from Fast Times at Ridgemont High. I had to actually hold my breath.

The next one was similar, but with a twist. Same complex, guy opens the door, aroma of freshly burnt marijuana wafts out into the hallway. The difference this time, the guy answered the door with his 3yr old or less son.

I love it when I walk up to a door during the summer when the windows are open and I can smell the weed and hear someone taking bong hits. When they start a fresh hit I wait a moment until they are about 3/4 of the way thru it and as soon as their thumb comes off of the carb I pound on the door and holler "UPS" in my deep loud voice...at the exact moment their lungs are at maximum capacity. This scares the crap out of them and makes them cough uncontrollably and gag and they have to come to the door all paranoid with eyes watering and snot running down their nose.

 

[chev]

I love it when I walk up to a door during the summer when the windows are open and I can smell the weed and hear someone taking bong hits. When they start a fresh hit I wait a moment until they are about 3/4 of the way thru it and as soon as their thumb comes off of the carb I pound on the door and holler "UPS" in my deep loud voice...at the exact moment their lungs are at maximum capacity. This scares the crap out of them and makes them cough uncontrollably and gag and they have to come to the door all paranoid with eyes watering and snot running down their nose.

You are so evil.
I like your style.

 

[MikeTbob]

EWWW, snot rockets!

 

[wkmac]

With the issue at hand being discussed, over the last few days I've watched a discussion between bloggers on legalization over at the paleo-conservative/libertarian website Taki's Magazine. The truth is, no issue has the ultimate perfect answer for every person and every situation but the more information, the more thoughts, facts, ideas we have on this or any other issue gives us the best chance of coming close. At the same time, I happen to believe it's important for each and every person to be free to choose his or her own path. That can get complex and complicated at times so we'll leave the philsophoical for another time.

Being ignorant, (an easily corrected condition) if you will, and laying all your hopes and dreams on a gov't or society leaders to always do the right thing is IMO about like believing in the tooth fairy or Santa Claus. It will only work if someone is there to pretend to fill the role and keep you ignorant of the truth.

That said, here are links to the series of posts discussing the issue from several different angles so hope you find them informative whether you agree or not!

A Second Thought on Legalization


A Third Thought On Legalization


Re: A Third Thought on Legalization


A Final Thought on Legalization


BTW: I think this is one of the better threads we've had because of a variety of perspectives and I appreciate those here who shared personal downsides of what drugs can do in the wrong situation. One common thread the horror stories all share is that the culprit of the problem if you will were not organic compounds in their natural state but had been processed, synthesized and concentrated to achieve a highly powerful dose in every smaller quantities. Some of that has to do with the substance being illegal and therefore the risks of transport demand the highest value in the smallest quantity. Even moonshiners learned to manipulate formulas by reading bubbling content which indicate the concentration of alcohol. Organics in their natural state can't be synthesized in the same way, thus my earlier comments in the first paragraph of post #6 in this thread.

I do think this nation needs to have an open and honest discussion of this issue and I think folks of my generation (late 1960's to mid/late 1970's) should be more open and honest about what they did in those years. Sure, there are the many funny stories but the tragic ones as well. A good friend of mine back in school about 10 years ago put a bullet in his head but the abuse wasn't drugs, it was alcohol. If alcohol were gone tomorrow from the face of the planet, it'd make absolutely no difference to me but I'm not going to crusade to end alcohol because my firend's abuse of it led to his death. As many busted families and torn lives from drugs that you can show, I can show you 10 if not 100 times as many destroyed by alcohol.

Life is about choices and you can destroy lives with drugs, alcohol, debt, sex, gambling and a whole host of other "evils" out there so where does gov't stop and where does gov't not? It all comes down to the individual and the choices he/she must make for themselves. Some of us don't choose wisely and we must pay for those choices, sometimes very dramatic and tragic.

 

[Sammie]

On a lighter note, (if there is a lighter note to drugs and alcohol),
start out with a couple of beers, add a few joints and what do
you get?

An Open House!

Staff
AP News
Mar 23, 2009 15:15 EST
Authorities said a 63-year-old man suspected of drunken driving crashed his pickup truck into a neighbor's house, leaving a gaping hole that revealed a small marijuana farm inside. San Diego police got a search warrant after the Sunday afternoon crash and confiscated more than 20 pot plants from the house.


Police Sgt. David Jennings said no one was inside the house, and neighbors told officers the residents were gone on a ski trip.

No one was injured in the crash.

 

[chev]

On a lighter note, (if there is a lighter note to drugs and alcohol),
start out with a couple of beers, add a few joints and what do
you get?

An Open House!

Staff
AP News
Mar 23, 2009 15:15 EST
Authorities said a 63-year-old man suspected of drunken driving crashed his pickup truck into a neighbor's house, leaving a gaping hole that revealed a small marijuana farm inside. San Diego police got a search warrant after the Sunday afternoon crash and confiscated more than 20 pot plants from the house.


Police Sgt. David Jennings said no one was inside the house, and neighbors told officers the residents were gone on a ski trip.

No one was injured in the crash.

I think the old man was secretly a DEA agent.