my thoughts on new contract

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by jware, Oct 4, 2007.

  1. jware

    jware New Member

    LET ME FIRST SAY THAT I'M A THIRD GENERATION UNION MAN, AND TRUELY BELIEVE IN ORGANIZED LABOR AND WHAT IT DOES FOR THE AVERAGE AMERICAN WORKER. HOWEVER, I CAN'T SEE FOR THE LIFE OF ME HOW THE TEAMSTERS CAN PUT FORTH THIS CONTRACT AND EXPECT ME TO VOTE FOR IT.
    (1) THIS CONTRACT WAS DONE A YEAR EARLY.
    (2) I CANT SEE ANYTHING BUT CONSESSIONS GIVING UP BY THE UNION TO THE COMPANY.
    a. NO NEW FULL-TIME JOBS.
    b. PAY RAISES THAT TAKE ME AN EXTRA 6 MONTHS TO RECIEVE.
    c. PROGRESSION THAT TAKES AN EXTRA 6 MONTHS.
    d. NO PAY RAISE FOR PART-TIME EMPLOYEES.
    c. NO PAY RAISE FOR ARTICAL 22.3 EMPLOYEES.
    d. HEALTH INSURANCE FOR PART-TIMERS THAT TAKES A YEAR TO GET, AND 18 MONTHS FOR THIER FAMILIES.

    THESE ARE JUST THE THINGS THAT HAVE COME OUT. WHAT ABOUT EXCESS OVERTIME, BETTER LANGUAGE FOR SUPERVISORS WORKING, MORE PERSONAL DAYS OFF, MORE VACATION?

    LET ME ALSO SAY THAT I'M A 13 YEAR EMPLOYEE WITH UPS, 4 AS A PART-TIMER, 7 AS AN ARTICAL 22.3, AND 2 AS A PACKAGE CAR-DRIVER. I DO LIKE THE IDEA OF US GETTING OUT OF CENTRAL STATES, I THINK THIS WAS A KNOW BRAINER CONSIDERING THE PRESENT STATE OF THE FUND AND THE PROSPECT OF THE GOVERNMENT TAKING IT OVER, HOWEVER THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THE COMPANY WANTED. TRUE IT WILL COST THEM AROUND 5 BILLION DOLLARS, BUT THIS MONEY WILL BE MADE UP FOR IN A YEAR OR TWO.

    IN ENDING, I JUST WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE UNION GOT FOR US OTHER THAN SOME PAY-RAISES THAT FALL BEHIND THE PACE OF INFLATION FOR THE NEXT 5 YEARS. I FOR ONE WILL VOTE NO FOR THIS CONTRACT. IS THIS TRUELY THE BEST THAT THE INTERNATIONAL CAN DO?
     
  2. phillly0588

    phillly0588 New Member

    Part-Time Starting Rate Frozen at $8.50

    Healthcare Givebacks for New Part-Timers
    Details on the proposed economic package for part-timers are beginning to emerge, and they are not pretty.

    The tentative agreement would freeze the starting pay rate for part-timers at $8.50 until August 2013. It would provide for an increase to $10.50 after 90 days on the job.

    In a major concession, the proposed early deal reportedly denies health coverage to part-timers for the first year of employment, and family coverage for the first 18 months.

    This is the “Very Best Agreement” that Hoffa promised?


    The starting rate for part-timers at UPS will soon fall below the legal minimum wage in many states. In California, for example, the minimum wage will be $8.00 by the end of this year. By the time this contract takes effect (Aug. 1, 2008), it may be $8.50.

    What will the minimum wage be in 2013 in California or in your state? Almost certainly more than $8.50, and perhaps over $10.50.

    Should the largest and strongest Teamster contract—at the richest Teamster employer—provide for starting wages that are less than the minimum wage? Less than what Wal-Mart pays?

    Under the proposed deal, it will take longer for part-time Teamsters to go full-time because the tentative deal will NOT create 10,000 new full-time jobs like the 1997 and 2002 contracts did. Instead it creates fewer jobs.

    In a positive step, the tentative agreement increases the penalty for supervisors working from time-and-a-half to double time. That’s an improvement, where the union enforces this language.

    UPS made more than $4 billion in profits last year. Is this really the best they could deliver to the part-timers who make up the majority of their workforce?
     
  3. mr.mojorizen

    mr.mojorizen New Member

    It looks like the part timers got screwed. The company believes the pas system will make up for the lack of quality job seekers. They expect the drivers to solve the daily preload mistakes. The central states issue had to be solved so i'm cautiously optomistic about that. There does appear to be a lot of concessions but we dont know all the specifics yet.
     
  4. browned_out

    browned_out Member

    I read this the other day, might explain the quick negotiations and give backs by hoffa. Can you say "Union Dues".
    Card-Check at UPS Freight Contingent on Pension Deal

    Experts speculated that President Hoffa went along with UPS’s pension grab as part of a deal to get UPS management to cooperate with Teamster plans to organize UPS Freight workers.


    Robert Bruno, a professor at the
    University of Illinois Institute for Labor and Industrial Relations, told the press that, “The contract language permitting UPS to leave the Central States Fund represents a sea change in the bargaining history of the Teamsters. Bruno said the terms must be significant for the union to have changed its position on this critical pension issue.” (Source: BNA Daily Labor Report)

    These suspicions were confirmed in a conference call with Teamster officials on Oct. 2. Hoffa and hall announced that management has agreed to a card check agreement so that our union can organize UPS Freight terminals—but revealed that this agreement only takes effect after the proposed national tentative agreement at UPS is ratified.


    The “card check” agreement will allow Teamster locals to win bargaining rights at a UPS Freight terminal without an NLRB election—just by signing up a majority of employees on union cards and having these signatures verified by an independent arbitrator. This is a positive step for our union toward the goal of organizing UPS Freight company-wide.


    But Hoffa and hall announced they had won this card-check agreement with UPS Freight more than a year ago at the 2006 Teamster Convention. They never mentioned that they were going to let UPS split 44,000 Teamsters out of the Central States Fund as part of the deal.
     
  5. huskervi

    huskervi Member

    I am a part timer, have been for 4 years and after hearing all of this well I believe this is BS. People probably do have better starting pay at Wal Mart..... REDIC
     
  6. Fredless

    Fredless APWA Hater

    Is this allegations at this point? Aren't official details supposed to be released October 11th?

    If what you guys are allegeding is true though, I will definitely vote NO.
     
  7. badpas

    badpas Member

    I don't know about everybody else, but its pretty obvious that upsf does not want to be unionized. And on top of that why is it any facet of our contract. I see why the teamsters want that but why should it be a bargaining chip on our contract. Me personally I think its a slap in everybody's face at upsf not to mention it has no business in our negotiations. I plan to give our local an earfull as soon as they get back from San diego. We can not, should not in good contious allow our representation to continue with this kind of tactics. I guarentee nobody at upsf will appreciate this.
     
  8. Braveheart

    Braveheart New Member

    I sure seems like Hoffa sold us short to get at the UPS freight guys. I never take a car dealer's first or even second offer. We need to see what is all in the contract but right now I am leaning to the no vote.
     
  9. sawdusttv

    sawdusttv Active Member

    You guys can cry "NO" vote all you want, but in the end if this is what Hoffa wants, No matter how many "NO" votes there are it will pass and when the numbers are tallied it will be a land slide victory for the teamsters just like all the votes. When is the last time that anyone has seen a vote go against the teamsters??????
     
  10. guyin916

    guyin916 New Member

    i hear ya! somebody is passing out the makeupsdeliver flyers and i remind the people that nothing is officially said about the contract till the 11th.. so there is a fury going on and people constantly threatening to quit. it's a frenzy.
     
  11. Fredless

    Fredless APWA Hater

    TDU bullcrap...Thanks again TDU..just because you can't win, you guys do everything you can to bring OUR union down from the inside.

    All this squabbling will do us NO good in the long run. Management loves to divide us and you guys are doing nothing to help it. Thats fine that you disagree on it, but WAIT a few days till its official.

    Vote it down and throw in ideas to make it better. Go to your union meetings and be part of a change!
     
  12. nospinzone

    nospinzone New Member

    When we're all honest with ourselves, we saw this weak contract coming a mile away. The Teamsters needed UPS to save them from the federal spanking they would receive on their underfunded pensions. Sadly enough this contract only addresses the Central States follies. How do the people in New England and Central PA plans feel about this? I imagine their plans will be needing a massive infusion of cash also. What will we give up in future contract negotiations to save the other plans from collapse? Notice that this is only a five year contract.

    The IBT has led us into this money pit and their only answers for getting us out is for us to throw more of our money and concessions at the problem. And what does the IBT get out of this deal? The new union dues and pension contributions from the unopposed organization of the 15,000 employees at UPS Freight.

    Call me pessimistic, but this will only get worse before it gets better.
    I vote NO.
     
  13. trenjct

    trenjct New Member



    Kind of like the fuzzy tallies we get back from the ERI every year? We rake 'em over the coals in the survey, but each year the numbers come back as "better than ever! 90+ percent employee euphoria."

    More like employee euthanasia! I trust the Union vote tallies and UPS' numbers about as much as a snake oil salesman. Been bit a few too many times by that damn snake!

    Yet, if I remember correctly, which is no sure thing anymore, didn't we vote NO and send them back to the table once before?

    I'll wait and see the details like everyone else, but if the BEST OFFER is nothing but concessions in exchange for card-check, then I'm going to have to dig around my medicine cabinet and find my antivenin kit.
     
  14. mule

    mule New Member

    I wonder how much selective truth and facts that the stewards and BA will use to sell the contract. Most of the part-timers have no clue about how this process works. From my experience, the Teamsters spend nothing on training and educating new hires about how the union works. Most new hires learn about the union once in a great while when the union reps need reelection. This alone builds mistrust and suspicion.

    I wonder how many teamster Representatives even know what the word union means. Most seem to think it stands for extra money, less work, and more leverage in their work area. I had one steward try to lead me to believe that this contract proposal is all we are going to get, and we should be glad to get this. This steward smells of hopelessness. In other words, he is weakening the union in his area. Most teamster reps and stewards that I have dealt with treat union members like customers and problems. Most seem to be only interested in the transaction that must take place between UPS and union members. These actions and others have drawn a dreadful conclusion for me. The union reps and stewards don't understand the purpose of a union. The teamsters have lost their way and principle.

    The union in not simply a middleman for contract negotiations and contract dispute resolutions. It is about principle, it about democracy, and it is about keeping the American dream alive. It is about sending a strong message to corporations.

    If Abraham Lincoln was alive, he would be a union supporter.

    So what does this have to do with the new contract? The teamsters have subdued the union voters by spreading ignorance through the ranks, and they will sway a very select few that will vote yes on this contract. The contract will be ratified by a select few that the union targets to get the votes they need for ratification. Most part-timers will not vote. This is not because they are lazy and uninterested; it is because the union will not educate them on the process and the importance of the process. I have done some research and found that the teamsters spend more money on Christmas parties than they do for educating the rank and file about the purpose of the union and the process of voting and involvement. Interesting facts are always fun.
     
  15. sawdusttv

    sawdusttv Active Member

    The thing that steers me in the direction that it is a done deal no matter how the members vote is this.
    If I'm not mistaken the pinsion laws will change with the new year, this is why the company and teamsters wanted this thing settled by the end of October. Well, what happens if we turn the contract down? They have left themselves with no time to renegotiate before the laws change. Therefore, My conclusion is that they are pretty positive that it well past, one way or another.
     
  16. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    Well today is the day the word comes down to the leadership of the locals on the contract specifics. Since the announcement of the agreement we've seen some speculation posted about the contract details but nothing has been released from official sources. I also think their dragging of feet is worrisome and troubling and does lend itself to conspiracy speculations like we're seeing. That is a typical PR problem the union has always had IMO and hopefully we someday get leadership who don't buy into that type of functioning.

    How this contract measures up in it's finished format is hard to say until we see the specific details, not internet posted "my friend was in the room when the deal was struck and he said....." or the other conspiracy theory that Hoffa and Eskew have already signed and that the vote is just a chirade.

    But what is of interest to me is that the APWA is "doing this" or "organizing there" threads have about disappeared as they relate to new threads and now the APWA cheerleaders seem to be across the forum calling this contract the worst ever or sold us out and about everything else in between. In fairness, it could prove the case that it is a bad contract but at this very moment can you or anyone else other than pure speculation prove that case? Nope, you can't. And you TDUers save your links as well, I'm not interested.

    Now we have what I call the "one hit wonders" who out of no where join BC and post against the contract and then after their one or 2 posts, disappear back into the shadows or they re-login back under their original used alias. You got you conspiracies and I got mine!:tongue_sm

    It's in the interest of the APWA to see this contract skuttled and I'm all for them presenting their ideas in the open arena and I also welcome their efforts. "If" in the Central States area we do get a good pension plan(in fairness we don't know either way yet), I'll give APWA just as much credit as the impending doom of the new ERISA rules because I do believe their pressure out there factored in this whole deal and I do hope they continue their cause. However, I do not respect their minions coming here and sturring a pot that at this moment has nothing in it. Now once the "FACTS" are out, go for it. Give it your best shot as it's no holds barred accept be true to the facts. I'll welcome all input at that time!

    JMHO
     
  17. Bill

    Bill Member

    What I have been saying all along is that the Teamsters are only concerned with raising money for themselves. They negotiate pay raises, but every time you get a raise, they increase the union dues. As far as the pension in CS is concerned, the Teamsters had no choice, but to allow UPS to take it over. The Teamsters/CS simply could not get out of the huge liability deficit they incurred over the years. The 6.1 billion dollar buyout only buys CS a few extra years before they are in the same condition as they are in now. They are still going to go bankrupt, but now it will take a few years longer. As far as choosing between UPS and the Teamsters controlling the pension: The Teamsters don't have the money, UPS does. However, don't expect to ever see your monthly pension increased under UPS. After you retire, whatever dollar amount you receive monthly, will be worth less and less each passing year, as the cost of living goes up. UPS will recoup the $6.1 billion in a few years, and after that, it is all profit for them.
     
  18. Fredless

    Fredless APWA Hater

    ok this sucks.

    What can we do about it? If the rumors are true, I'm going to vote no.

    Whats the best way to educate my part timers in my hub? I am thinking of making up flyers that pertain the part timers and trying to inform everyone that I can. Any of the more experienced people have any ideas?
     
  19. raceanoncr

    raceanoncr Well-Known Member


    OK, prove it...again! HA!!!
     
  20. sawdusttv

    sawdusttv Active Member

    MAC,
    Why are you always so quick to call people liars?
    Would you rather have everyone just not even mention that bad word (contract) until the "Official" word comes down from the local leaders? That way everyone would be caught totally by suprise, and have less time to sort thing through before the vote. Sounds just exactly what the Union leadership would hope for.
    I for one, welcome the opinions, views, and speculations of everyone on this forum. I would also like to point out the fact that just because someone on this site says something that I disagree with, it does not automatically mean that it is misinformation. The main thing is to keep in mind that these threads are discussions between many different people and views and is not meant to be written in stone. I for one stay better informed on various situations due to reading these threads, not saying that I agree with or even believe all that I read, but I am usually better prepared when situations manifest themselves.