Obamas Preacher vs. Bushes Preacher??

[magic88]

So much hate in this forum...what makes us right about religion just because we were born in the United States? Are we at an advantage because of that? What if we were born in India then would we be any different? We are all taught what are parents believed. Religion in itself can be bad if we don't see the good and only see the bad. Has anyone read the bible with its slavery and unethical treatment of females? And the only thing I have to say about Geoge Bush is...he hasn't protected me from any terrorist...he may have indeed made it worse...and he did or is still profitting from this terrible war for oil...and over 2/3 of the nation agrees so we are in the majority on that. Be happy.

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are
to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public".


-Theodore Roosevelt, 1918

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

I rest my case. You Liberals can't answer simple questions (Obama also proved this in the debate the other night) and it's clear that you are against our military and are for the terrorists. If this were not so then you'd be posting link after link of the wrong doings of terrorists and not only link after link trying to slander our troops. Oh and by the way....if you were to research the good things that have been accomplished by our troops over there they would more than out weigh the garbage you've been posting here. Have fun with our America hating lives.

 

[BrownShark]

Nice try liar. You have already tried that though. The judge in this case said that baiting was not relevant. He killed a detainee with a pistol. He was found guilty. Still waiting on your proof of these teams who were found guilty and all received ten year sentences for illegally baiting. Oh and for the record I do not think it is a crime to kill someone on the battlefield while carrying weapons to be used against coalition forces.

Hey Boot,

I am having having trouble with your every changing argument. YOU said that "I" falsely accused the marines of murder. That was false. All marines involved in the Haditha slayings was CHARGED with murder. My point made.

You then argued that they were "cleared" of murder charges. That is also false. They were not "cleared" of murder charges. My point has been made.

Of the marines charged with murder, each has an attorney, each has a defense, its was called "pleading gulity", "admitting cupability" and "admitting in the participation of a rampage against innocent iraqi civilians".

Then, and only then, would they recieve full IMMUNITY against the charge of murder from the prosecutor.

This is the CASE. These admissions make them GUILTY and not CLEARED as you state.

They are GUILTY but wont face charges for the crimes THEY COMMITTED.

I realize that understanding this dynamic may exceed your ability to look beyond the marine code, but they are facts nonetheless.

Additionally, we were not speaking about the judge in the case. it matters not what "HIS" opinion is. YOU said there was no baiting program going on in iraqi. This is also false.

While never officially confirmed by the defense department and those commanders involved, its takes a pure idiot to disbelieve those marines and soldiers involved in these shootings were not under "ORDERS" to commit these acts of indecency.

Testimony in each case sez so. They cannot be all liars coming from different parts of iraq and having no knowledge of each other.

The tactic emerged earlier this year when Captain Matthew Didier, a platoon commander in an elite sniper unit known as the ‘Painted Demons’, told a military court: ‘Baiting is putting an object out there that we know they will use, with the intention of destroying the enemy.

This is NOT LEGAL, and is a war crime.

Lucky for our troops that former VICEROY Paul Bremer gave our troops immunity from Iraqi law and they cannot be punished by the Iraqi goverment. However, they can still be charged with war crimes by the International War Crimes Tribunal which does not recognize the action of Paul Bremer nor the laws of the United States.

Currently, there are several charges of war crimes filed against the United States, its leaders, its commanders and military personnel for actions in Iraq, this to take place in Germany. (our allie)

What comes of these charges only time will tell.

You having the belief that baiting an unarmed iraqi and shooting him merely for picking up something we intentionally left on the ground in a country destroyed by war is disgusting.

You having the belief that marine vela was cleared because he did not murder a man with his sniper rifle and he used his pistol while following an order, even when this man presented to harm to the marines is pure COWARDESS.

Oh and for the record I do not think it is a crime to kill someone on the battlefield while carrying weapons to be used against coalition forces.

This would be generally the truth and the position of all persons who view war, unfortunately for the marines, it appears those killed are only carrying the weapons after they have been killed and the gun planted on them for a better photograph.

There is an old saying, "better to appear as an idiot, then open your mouth and confirm it". You should embrace this principle.

Its a shame that these action occur in the first place. I want to see NO MILITARY man or women put in these situations...EVER.

Unfortunately, politics means more than justice. Higher body counts of dead terrorists means more to this administrations agenda than peace.

To guys like you, anyone in Iraq is the enemy. So, shooting any Iraqi can be converted to killing a terrorist. This is the problem with an UNDEFINED enemy.

Paul Bremer made it a law that each iraqi family could have a AK 47 in their home for protection.

Then, in each case of a homocide, the first thing that is said is that an AK47 was found at the scene.

The marines have clearly established a practice of carrying around AK47's along with their Iraqi soldier commrades so theres always one around when they need one. (sarcasm)

Now Boot, I understand that this whole process is tough on everyone, and not all of us as Americans are going to agree all the time on all issues, but man, dont stick your neck out for guys who are criminals amongst your ranks.

The stain on our military is large enough already.

I will not engage you in hair splitting or even better yet, APOLOGIZING to admitted murderer's.

Dont hold your breathe on that one.

The issue of military crimes against the Iraqi people will be one hill you will never see the top of.

Peace.

 

[BrownShark]

I rest my case. You Liberals can't answer simple questions (Obama also proved this in the debate the other night) and it's clear that you are against our military and are for the terrorists. If this were not so then you'd be posting link after link of the wrong doings of terrorists and not only link after link trying to slander our troops. Oh and by the way....if you were to research the good things that have been accomplished by our troops over there they would more than out weigh the garbage you've been posting here. Have fun with our America hating lives.

HAHAHAHA,

man, you lost soul. You define the the 21% of America who support this position.

Why not employ the Nuclear option and ask for 2 americas??

Peace

(p.s. LMAO!!)

 

[av8torntn]

Hey Boot,

I am having having trouble with your every changing argument. YOU said that "I" falsely accused the marines of murder. That was false. All marines involved in the Haditha slayings was CHARGED with murder. My point made.


Peace.

Oh I get it now. Last time you tried to say you did not make your false claims. Now you are going to try and say the Marines at Haditha are the same as the Army snipers in Iskandariyah. You still lie. Show me then these Marine sniper teams that have been convicted of illegally baiting and all given ten year sentences for murder.

As far as your Haditha Marines go here is what has been said by the judge.

"The theory that Sharratt killed three men was "incredible" and relied on contradictory information from Iraqis, Lt. Col. Paul Ware, the hearing officer, said last month, The Associated Press reported.
The government's case lacked evidence, Ware said last month when he advised against going to trial, AP reported. "


This is the Marine that was accused of killing women and children. You repeated this false charge.

Wow liar that really sounds like a rampage huh. You are pitiful. Your false accusations are weak.


I'm still waiting on your facts and data that these Army sniper teams have been convicted of murder for baiting targets and have all been given ten year sentences. Since you claim it has happended within the last couple of weeks it should be easy for you to provide this proof that you offered.


And I'm still waiting.


I'm ready to move to some of your other lies but I'm waiting for this proof you have first.


And still waiting.

 

[diesel96]

So much hate in this forum...what makes us right about religion just because we were born in the United States? Are we at an advantage because of that? What if we were born in India then would we be any different? We are all taught what are parents believed. Religion in itself can be bad if we don't see the good and only see the bad. Has anyone read the bible with its slavery and unethical treatment of females? And the only thing I have to say about Geoge Bush is...he hasn't protected me from any terrorist...he may have indeed made it worse...and he did or is still profitting from this terrible war for oil...and over 2/3 of the nation agrees so we are in the majority on that. Be happy.

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are
to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public".



-Theodore Roosevelt, 1918

Great quote by Teddy......Unfortunately this day an age you are chastised by the Right Wing "Drudge" machine for thinking like this. IMO when non-believers stand up to the far right GOP and expose their hypocrisy, the hardliners impose the John Wayne mythology to build up their arguments. Believe me it's easy to expose the GOP fallacies. Time and time again, Americans vote Republican due to their perceptions that Rt wing leaders exude courage, conviction, strength, wholesome family morality, claim ownership of the military, fiscal restraint,indivdual over gov't. Of course complete fabrications and bear no relationship in reality. And when called out on these convictions, the labling, namecalling, and generalizations of hateful sentiment rises to the surface.

 

[av8torntn]

Trust me I know you do not have any proof that army snipers have been convicted of murder for baiting targets and all given ten year sentences in the past couple of weeks. But since you claim you do and you have offered multiple times to post it why don't you? Are you scared to post these facts that you claim you have? I think it is because you are a liar and you have no such proof. So I'm still waiting.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

HAHAHAHA,

man, you lost soul. You define the the 21% of America who support this position.

Why not employ the Nuclear option and ask for 2 americas??

Peace

(p.s. LMAO!!)

Lost soul? Last time I checked I was a Republican therefore I have a soul. Unlike you Godless, America Hating, Baby killing liberals. 21% of Americans? LOL! If that many bashed our military as much as you do then this country would have been invaded a long time ago.

 

[av8torntn]

I rest my case. You Liberals can't answer simple questions (.

I just wanted to take this and apply it to BS. Why when you offered your proof that Army sniper teams have been convicted of murder for baiting targets and all given ten year sentences do you not come through with your proof? You posted many articles now that have nothing to do with baiting targets. You even posted articles about National Guard Soldiers who were not even in the same area that you were talking about. You even posted articles about Marines. I have asked for this proof you claim to have and since you claim it happened in the last couple of weeks it should be easy for you to provide. I think I know why you cannot answer this simple question.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

I just wanted to take this and apply it to BS. Why when you offered your proof that Army sniper teams have been convicted of murder for baiting targets and all given ten year sentences do you not come through with your proof? You posted many articles now that have nothing to do with baiting targets. You even posted articles about National Guard Soldiers who were not even in the same area that you were talking about. You even posted articles about Marines. I have asked for this proof you claim to have and since you claim it happened in the last couple of weeks it should be easy for you to provide. I think I know why you cannot answer this simple question.

LOL! That's standard liberal debating techniques my friend. If they can't answer a question they dance around it. If they can't provide proof they make it up or add multiple bits of irrelevant information together as if it's a substitute for concrete proof.

 

[av8torntn]

Boot,

As I posted in another post, there were 69 cases of military personnel charged with murdering innocent Iraqis, and so far 31 convictions have been sustained.


You must learn to distinguish between right and wrong as a person (civilian) and not the robotic mindset the military would have you believe.

Crimes are crimes, there is no defense for it.

It is a shameful part of our occupation of Iraq that these cases exist. History will tell how large a part these crimes will play in the eventual outcome.

You are wrong when you responded that good people cant be made to do bad things, YES they can.

Its called life my friend. Life has its breaking points, and marines and soldiers are reaching theirs.

This is when good people do bad things.

Peace

While I am waiting for your proof that Army sniper teams have been convicted of murder for baiting targets and all given ten year sentences maybe you could enlighten us as to why do american civilians commit murder at a higher rate than our military people in Iraq do.


Just so you know I am still waiting for this proof you say you have.

 

[satellitedriver]

I see someone was hurt by my post enough to DELETE it from this thread.

Cowardly I say. :

I haven't been following this thread.
I checked your claim that one of your posts was deleted in this thread.
None have been.
Why would you make a false accusation like that and wish to be believed in your other statements?

 

[satellitedriver]

Scandals throughout his cabinet and appointments, rediculous mis-statements and false milestones, lies and deceptions onto the american public, corruption in his very office that resulted in a "commuted" sentence for a criminal best friend.:

Are you referring to Bill Clinton?

 

[BrownShark]

Heres something I am sure most people dont know about the republicans when they had control of both the house and senate.

A little SECRET they buried in a bill to protect themselves should war crimes be charged against them.

Its a video. Watch and learn.

It was was a rush for passage because they knew they would lose control of both houses at the time and they also knew they would NEVER get it passed if the democrats took both houses that november.

The republicans are quick to ask our fighting men to do things that are against the law and then send them to prison when they get caught, but when it comes to them, they protect themselves and prevent the chance of prosecution.

Yeah, real christians..."do unto others as you WOULDNT do to your self"

Peace.

 

[BrownShark]

Here is an OPINON piece with a comparision, read it and try to understand the comparison.

IRAQ: Covering up US war crimes


1 December 2004

[SIZE=+1]James Petras[/SIZE]
I am reading William Shirer's Berlin Diary, a journalist's account of Nazi political propaganda during the 1930s, as I watch the US “news” reports of the violent assault on Fallujah.
The US mass media “reports”, the style, content and especially the language, echo their Nazi predecessors of 70 years ago to an uncanny degree. Coincidence? Of course! In both instances we have imperialist armies conquering countries, levelling cities and slaughtering civilians — and the mass media, private in form, state appendages in practice, disseminate the most outrageous lies, in defense and praise of the conquering “storm troopers” — call them SS or marines.

Both in Nazi Germany and contemporary US, we are told by the mass media that the invading armies are “freeing the country” of “foreign fighters” and “armed terrorists”, who are preventing “the people” from going about their everyday lives. Yet we know that of the 1000 prisoners there are only four foreigners (three Iranians and one Arab); Iraqi hospitals report less than 10% of casualties are foreign fighters. In other words, over 90% of the fighters are Iraqis — most of whom were born, educated and raised families in the cities in which they are fighting.

Like the Nazi media, the major US radio and TV networks only report what they call “military casualties” — failing to report the civilians killed since the war started and the thousands of women and children killed and wounded since the assault on Fallujah began.

Like in Nazi Germany, the US mass media feature unconfirmed reports by the US military of the bloody murders, beheadings and kidnappings “by the foreign terrorists”. The unconditional support of Nazi/US mass media for the killing fields is best captured in their reports of the massive bombing of densely populated city districts. For the US network NBC, the dropping of 500-pound bombs in the city of Fallujah is described as targeting an “insurgent tunnel network in the city”. And the houses, markets, stores — the mothers and children above those tunnels — vaporised into “pink mist”, their existence never acknowledged by the leading reporters and broadcasters.
Almost the entire population of non-Kurdish Iraq is opposed to the US military and its puppet regime — yet the media refer to the patriots defending their country from the imperial invaders as “insurgents”, minimising the significance of a nationwide patriotic liberation movement. One of the most surreal euphemisms is the constant reference to the “coalition forces” — meaning the US colonial conquerors and the mercenaries and satraps that they direct and control.

The terror bombing of homes, hospitals and religious buildings by hundreds of airplanes and helicopter gunships is described by the media as “securing the city for free elections”.
“Freeing the city of insurgents” includes the systematic murder of friends, neighbours and relatives of every Iraqi living in the city of Fallujah. “Surrounding the insurgents” means cutting off water, electricity and medical aid for 200,000 civilians in the city and putting tens of thousands who fled under threat of a typhoid epidemic. “Pacifying the city” involves turning it to absolute desolate poisoned rubble.
Why do Washington and the mass media resort to gross, systematic lying and euphemisms? Basically to reinforce mass support at home for mass murder in Iraq. The mass media fabricates a web of lies to secure a gloss of legitimacy for totalitarian methods in order that the US armed forces can continue to destroy cities with impunity.
The technique perfected by Goebbels in Germany and practiced in the US is to repeat lies and euphemisms until they become accepted “truths”, and embedded in everyday language. The mass media by effectively routinising a common language implicates the listeners. The tactical concerns of the generals, the commanders directing the slaughter (pacification), and the soldiers murdering civilians are explained (and consumed by the millions listening and watching) by the unchallenged authorities to the compliant journalists and famous news anchors.
The unity of purpose between the agents of mass murder and everyday US public is established via “news reports”: The soldiers “paint the names” of their wives and sweethearts on the tanks and armoured vehicles that destroy Iraqi families and turn Fallujah into ruins. Returning soldiers from Iraq are “interviewed” who want to return to “be with their platoon” and “wipe out the terrorists”.
Not all of US combat forces experienced the joys of shooting civilians. Medical studies report that one out of five returning soldiers are suffering from severe psychological trauma, no doubt from witnessing or participating in the mass killing of civilians. The family of one returned soldier, who recently committed suicide, reported that he constantly referred to his killing of an unarmed child in the streets of Iraq — calling himself a “murderer”.
Aside from these notable exceptions, the mass propaganda media practise several techniques, which assuage the “conscience” of US soldiers and civilians.

One technique is “role reversal” to attribute the crimes of the invading force to the victims: It is not the soldiers who cause destruction of cities and murder, but the Iraqi families who 'protect the terrorists' and “bring upon themselves the savage bombardment”.
The second technique is to only report US casualties from “terrorist bombs” — to omit any mention of thousands of Iraqi civilians killed by US bombs and artillery.

Both Nazi and US propaganda glorify the “heroism”, “success” of their elite forces (the SS and the Marines) — in killing “terrorists” or “insurgents” — every dead civilian is counted as a “suspected terrorist sympathiser”.

The US and German military have declared every civilian building a “storehouse” or “hiding place” for “terrorists'—hence the absolutely total disregard of all the Geneva laws of warfare. The US and Nazi practice of 'total war' in which whole communities, neighbourhoods and entire cities are collectively guilty of shielding 'wanted terrorists'—is of course the standard operating military procedure of the Israeli government.
The US publicises the cruel and unusual punishment of Iraqi “suspects” (any male between 14 and 60 years old) taken prisoner: photos appear in Time and Newsweek of barefoot, blindfolded and bound young men led from their homes and pushed into trucks to be taken to “exploitation centres” for interrogation. For many in the US public these pictures are part of the success story — they are told these are the “terrorists” who would blow up US homes.

For the majority who voted for US President George Bush, the mass propaganda media has taught them to believe that the extermination of scores of thousands of Iraqi citizens is in their best interests: they can sleep sound, as long as “our boys” kill them “over there”.

Above all the mass propaganda media has done everything possible to deny Iraqi national consciousness. Every day in every way the reference is to religious loyalties, ethnic identities, past political labels, “tribal” and family clans. The purpose is to divide and conquer, and to present the world with a “chaotic” Iraq in which the only coherent, stable force is the US colonial regime. The purpose of the savage colonial assaults and the political labelling is to destroy the idea of the Iraqi nation — and in its place to substitute a series of mini-entities run by imperial satraps obedient to Washington.
Sunday morning: November 14. Today Fallujah is being raped and razed, captured. Wounded prisoners are shot in the mosques. In New York, the mega-malls are crowded with shoppers.
Sunday afternoon: the Marines have blocked food, water and medicine from entering Fallujah. Throughout the US millions of men sit in front of the television watching football.
Shirer reported that, while the Nazis invaded and ravaged Belgium and bombed Rotterdam, in Berlin the cafes were full, the symphony played and people walked their dogs in the park on sunny Sunday afternoons. Yes, there are differences between Shirer's account of Nazi propaganda in defense of the conquest of Europe and the US media's apology for the invasion of Iraq and Israel's slaughter of the Palestinians:

One is committed in the name of the Fuehrer and the Fatherland, the other in the name of God and Democracy. Go tell that to the bloated corpses gnawed by dogs in the ruins of Fallujah.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

It's official. This "BrownShark" guy clearly enjoys attacking our military. Hell, if the terrorists want to learn how to do some real damage to our boys they should just contact him. LOL!

 

[BrownShark]

It's official. This "BrownShark" guy clearly enjoys attacking our military. Hell, if the terrorists want to learn how to do some real damage to our boys they should just contact him. LOL!

Big Arrow up,

Please define your interpretation of a terrorist in iraq?

Who are they, where do they come from, how do they get armed, who funds them, what sect are they from and more importantly, how are they associated with 911.

As for attacking our military, having a broader perspective of war doesnt make me an attacker, it makes me a practicalist. Having an understanding and the ability to separate the rhetoric from the reality is a quality you fail to demonstrate.

If you or anyone else, would like to start a thread posting the accomplishments of the war in Iraq and its benefits to the broader war on terror, then you are free to do so. Merely saying there is good, is not good enough.

Good luck.

Peace

 

[BrownShark]

Something our men and women need to take seriously before following an order that is "out of order":

War Crimes Act of 1996

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The War Crimes Act of 1996 was passed with overwhelming majorities by the United States Congress and signed into law by President Bill Clinton.
The law defines a war crime to include a "grave breach of the Geneva Conventions", specifically noting that "grave breach" should have the meaning defined in any convention (related to the laws of war) to which the U.S. is a party. The definition of "grave breach" in some of the Geneva Conventions have text that extend additional protections, but all the Conventions share the following text in common: "... committed against persons or property protected by the Convention: willful killing, torture or inhuman treatment, including biological experiments, willfully causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health."
The law applies if either the victim or the perpetrator is a national of the United States or a member of the U.S. armed forces. The penalty may be life imprisonment or death. The death penalty is only invoked if the conduct resulted in the death of one or more victims.

The law criminalized breaches of the Geneva Conventions so that the United States could prosecute war criminals, specifically North Vietnamese soldiers who tortured U.S. soldiers during the Vietnam War. The Department of Defense "fully support[ed] the purposes of the bill,"[1] recommending that it be expanded to include a longer list of war crimes. Because the United States generally followed the Conventions, the military recommended making breaches by U.S. soldiers war crimes as well "because doing so set a high standard for others to follow."[1] The bill passed by unanimous consent in the Senate and by a voice vote in the House,[1] showing that it was entirely uncontroversial at the time.
Ten years later, the United States Supreme Court ruled in Hamdan v. Rumsfeld ( 000 U.S. 05-184 ) that Common Article 3 of the Third Geneva Convention applied to the War on Terrorism, with the unstated implication that any interrogation techniques that violated Common Article 3 constituted War Crimes.[2] The possibility that American officials and soldiers could be prosecuted for war crimes for committing the "outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment"[3] prohibited by the Conventions led to a series of proposals to make such actions legal in certain circumstances, which resulted in the Military Commissions Act of 2006.

Potential application

White House officials were concerned that they and other U.S. officials could be prosecuted under the War Crimes Act for the U.S. treatment of detainees after 9/11 for violations of the Geneva Conventions. In a January 2002 memorandum to the president, then-White House Counsel Alberto Gonzales authored a controversial memo in January of 2002 that explored whether Article III of the Geneva Convention applied to Al Qaeda and Taliban fighters captured in Afghanistan and held in detention facilities around the world, including Camp X-Ray in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. The memo made several arguments both for and against providing Article III protection to Al Qaeda and Taliban fighters. He concluded that Article III was outdated and ill-suited for dealing with captured Al Qaeda and Taliban fighters. He described as "quaint" the provisions that require providing captured Al Qaeda and Taliban fighters "commissary privileges, scrip, athletic uniforms, and scientific instruments". He also argued that existing military regulations and instructions from the President were more than adequate to ensure that the principles of the Geneva Convention would be applied. He also argued that undefined language in the Geneva Convention, such as "outrages upon personal dignity" and "inhuman treatment", could make officials and military leaders subject to the War Crimes Act of 1996 if mistreatment was discovered.[4]
The adoption of the Military Commissions Act of 2006, defined in Section 6 of the act grave abuses of Common Article 3 to only include torture, cruel or inhumane treatment, murder, mutilation or maiming, intentional causing serious bodily harm, rape, sexual assault or abuse, and the taking of hostages, thereby limiting the scope of the original law.

Peace

 

[av8torntn]

Hey BS

Since you have time to post why don't you post this proof you claim to have of these Army snipers that you falsely claim to have been convicted of baiting targets and all given ten year sentences. You have offered to post this proof you have. Still waiting for it. I would like to move on to challenge some of your other lies that you have posted. You say these men have all been convicted within the last couple of weeks so I would think it would be easy for even someone as slow as you.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Big Arrow up,

Please define your interpretation of a terrorist in iraq?

I don't have an "interpretation" of what a terrorist. I'm not a liberal that needs to change or distort the meaning of something in order to justify a warped belief. My beliefs on terrorism stem from a sense of right and wrong. When an individual or group of people set up IEDs, car bombs, kidnappings and/or beheadings they are terrorists. Plus, these terrorists are not wearing uniforms which violates the Geneva Convention.

Who are they, where do they come from, how do they get armed, who funds them, what sect are they from and more importantly, how are they associated with 911.

They are local Iraqis as well as foreign fighters. They get armed and funded by multiple terrorist groups as well as Iran. Which sect they are from depends on which area of Iraq you are talking about and which terrorist group they are affiliated with. How terrorists in Iraq were directly associated with 9/11 has never been an issue for me. To even try to justify the U.S. invading Iraq based on the individual cells of al-Qaida's level of involvement with 9/11 is just plain retarded. al-Qaida is al-Qaida where ever they may be.

As for attacking our military, having a broader perspective of war doesnt make me an attacker, it makes me a practicalist. Having an understanding and the ability to separate the rhetoric from the reality is a quality you fail to demonstrate.

How could you have a broader perspective of war when all you've done is target one side in your accusations? How could you have an understanding and ability to separate rhetoric from reality when you can't even provide factual information when you slander our troops?

If you or anyone else, would like to start a thread posting the accomplishments of the war in Iraq and its benefits to the broader war on terror, then you are free to do so. Merely saying there is good, is not good enough.

I'm not starting another thread but I can give you a taste of what it would say I did......Iraqis aren't being tortured on a daily basis like they were before. Women are aloud to vote. More and more children are going to school. Christians aren't persecuted nearly as much. Thousands and thousands of terrorists have been killed. Millions of Iraqis have been freed. But then again it doesn't matter what the accomplishments are because your kind are defeatists and can only concentrate on the negative even if it means slandering the men and women that are doing the job the allows you to express our ant-American agenda.