Occupy Wall Street

804brown

Well-Known Member
Steve Jobs was filthy rich. Should his money have been taken away and redistributed? Did he do something wrong?

I don't have a problem with wealth, but I have a problem with our corrupt government system. More than that I have a problem with both management and teamsters complaining about the corruption while still giving money to the government through UPSPAC and the union. The government can't pad wallets if they don't get it in the first place. How about starting the revolution by cutting the flow of cash you all hate so much. No need to storm Wall St., we can protest from where we are and accomplish more. Protesters with jobs - a novel idea!

If Steve Jobs was as rich in the 1950s, he would have been taxed at around 90% rate. It is about fairness. Warren Buffet pays a lower tax rate then his own secretary. That is because the rich and powerful send in their lobbyists to buy them special legislation for this to happen. Listen, in the 1990s when our country had peace and prosperity under Clinton, rates were 39.6% . Some want to increase the current 35% to that 39.6% and are called socialists by the reactionaries protecting the 1% .

But you are on to something. It is the $$ that flows into Washington and every state house in this country. If you truly want to clean up politics and have a true congress that represents we the people then we should implement a system of public financing of our elections (at every level). When our reps cant be bought be the rich and powerful (even union in theory), they will be forced to do ther right thing!!
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
If Steve Jobs was as rich in the 1950s, he would have been taxed at around 90% rate. It is about fairness. Warren Buffet pays a lower tax rate then his own secretary. That is because the rich and powerful send in their lobbyists to buy them special legislation for this to happen. Listen, in the 1990s when our country had peace and prosperity under Clinton, rates were 39.6% . Some want to increase the current 35% to that 39.6% and are called socialists by the reactionaries protecting the 1% .

But you are on to something. It is the $$ that flows into Washington and every state house in this country. If you truly want to clean up politics and have a true congress that represents we the people then we should implement a system of public financing of our elections (at every level). When our reps cant be bought be the rich and powerful (even union in theory), they will be forced to do ther right thing!!
Buffett pays a different tax rate because most of his money is made from cap. gains so he pays a cap. gains tax. You pay an ordinary income tax. People who don't get paychecks anymore don't pay ordinary income tax because they have no ordinary income.
 

SignificantOwner

A Package Center Manager
If Steve Jobs was as rich in the 1950s, he would have been taxed at around 90% rate. It is about fairness. Warren Buffet pays a lower tax rate then his own secretary. That is because the rich and powerful send in their lobbyists to buy them special legislation for this to happen. Listen, in the 1990s when our country had peace and prosperity under Clinton, rates were 39.6% . Some want to increase the current 35% to that 39.6% and are called socialists by the reactionaries protecting the 1% .

But you are on to something. It is the $$ that flows into Washington and every state house in this country. If you truly want to clean up politics and have a true congress that represents we the people then we should implement a system of public financing of our elections (at every level). When our reps cant be bought be the rich and powerful (even union in theory), they will be forced to do ther right thing!!

Does your union give money to politicians to "get in the door," "make sure your voice is heard," etc.?
 

toonertoo

Most Awesome Dog
Staff member
Tooner, even the children with the wherewithall are having a hard time finding a job. Both my daughter and son-in-law have been unable to find work in their degree fields. They have jobs but are definitely underemployed.
I think you are talking to Helen. I didnt say that.
Im lucky, as is my family. both my sons put themselves through college, or the military, and make more than I do in pretty stable fields. With lots more time off. Imagine making what we make, at half our age. they got the world by the arse, living the american dream, baby.
 

rod

Retired 22 years
Buffett pays a different tax rate because most of his money is made from cap. gains so he pays a cap. gains tax. You pay an ordinary income tax. People who don't get paychecks anymore don't pay ordinary income tax because they have no ordinary income.[/QUOTE]


I have to disagree with you on this one. I pay a crap load of income taxes on my Pension and Social Security. I don't mind paying my fair share----I just wish everyone had to.
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
Buffett pays a different tax rate because most of his money is made from cap. gains so he pays a cap. gains tax. You pay an ordinary income tax. People who don't get paychecks anymore don't pay ordinary income tax because they have no ordinary income.[/QUOTE]


I have to disagree with you on this one. I pay a crap load of income taxes on my Pension and Social Security. I don't mind paying my fair share----I just wish everyone had to.
Someone else can explain it better, but Warren's tax rate is different because of how his money is made.........different from normal paychecks that people get.
I'm not the money person.
 

SignificantOwner

A Package Center Manager
Buffett pays a different tax rate because most of his money is made from cap. gains so he pays a cap. gains tax. You pay an ordinary income tax. People who don't get paychecks anymore don't pay ordinary income tax because they have no ordinary income.

Buffett is a perfect example of the problem because he's making a ton of money with taxpayer support. During and after the financial crisis he made huge investments in companies that he knows the government won't let fail. He's works directly with Obama and the administration and he invests in Goldman Sachs, Bank of America, and GE. Then, as payback to the administration (you scratch my back I scratch yours) he starts this BS about his poor secretary. The joke's on her because she's going to pay her $5 debit card fee to Bank of America and Buffett will ultimately get even more of her money - and yours. He's a heck of a good guy huh? We probably don't even know the half of it. What a joke.
 

UnconTROLLed

perfection
Buffett is a perfect example of the problem because he's making a ton of money with taxpayer support. During and after the financial crisis he made huge investments in companies that he knows the government won't let fail. He's works directly with Obama and the administration and he invests in Goldman Sachs, Bank of America, and GE. Then, as payback to the administration (you scratch my back I scratch yours) he starts this BS about his poor secretary. The joke's on her because she's going to pay her $5 debit card fee to Bank of America and Buffett will ultimately get even more of her money - and yours. He's a heck of a good guy huh? We probably don't even know the half of it. What a joke.
A joke in what sense?

He is exploiting the capitalist system the best he can. That is the whole point of this breed of capitalism, after all, to exploit and manipulate other people out of their money. The past 30 years of economic progress were built upon rich people buying favors from politicians, politicians creating leeway for the donating rich to build more wealth, in return patting the backs of politicians they elect and fund campaigns for, which returns even more faovrable legislation....rinse, repeat over and over. Now any type of middle or working middle class is largely cut out of money and staying power because thirty years is a long time to be stolen from with nothing in return; and money is power, after all.
 

mamirk69

Well-Known Member
Buffett pays a different tax rate because most of his money is made from cap. gains so he pays a cap. gains tax. You pay an ordinary income tax. People who don't get paychecks anymore don't pay ordinary income tax because they have no ordinary income.

Income tax 101, if Warren pays $5 for stock and it grows to $10 of stock then Warren pays the difference when he cash the stock in because the understanding is the $5 was already taxed via income so taxing the $10 would be taxed double to make your point clear. Warren probably has tax sheltered businesses.
 
M

MenInBrown

Guest
If Steve Jobs was as rich in the 1950s, he would have been taxed at around 90% rate. It is about fairness. Warren Buffet pays a lower tax rate then his own secretary. That is because the rich and powerful send in their lobbyists to buy them special legislation for this to happen. Listen, in the 1990s when our country had peace and prosperity under Clinton, rates were 39.6% . Some want to increase the current 35% to that 39.6% and are called socialists by the reactionaries protecting the 1% .

But you are on to something. It is the $$ that flows into Washington and every state house in this country. If you truly want to clean up politics and have a true congress that represents we the people then we should implement a system of public financing of our elections (at every level). When our reps cant be bought be the rich and powerful (even union in theory), they will be forced to do ther right thing!!

Really? Have you not looked at our tax system? Everyone pays the same 15% capital gains tax that Buffet was talking about...top earners pay 35% and most middle income families pay 25% income tax...what kind of math is that? I know people are upset, but no one has ever worked for a poor man. I cant believe the people that died in past wars to get away from monarchy and totalitarian rule for freedom, and to have a country controlled by the people for the people. We are in serious debt...instead of looking to successful people to pay even more than their fair share, we should look to control our government spending. The people that are upset are the people that want something for nothing. Get out there and work hard and you will be rewarded.
 
M

MenInBrown

Guest
Buffett pays a different tax rate because most of his money is made from cap. gains so he pays a cap. gains tax. You pay an ordinary income tax. People who don't get paychecks anymore don't pay ordinary income tax because they have no ordinary income.
\

Thats correct...but we all pay the same capital gains tax...if you live in your house for more than 2 years and sell it, you dont pay any cap gains on your profit. Is that fair???
 

klein

Für Meno :)
Turn on CNN, they have 3 protesters in their news room, the middle guy (bald headed), works for UPS in Georgia (from occupy Atlanta movemnent).
 

klein

Für Meno :)
She`s a girl going to college. I don`t know what he does at UPS, he could be a sorter, or office worker.
Anyways, too late , it`s over now, but they`ll repeat it. (was only a 5min appearance, anyways).
 

SignificantOwner

A Package Center Manager
A joke in what sense?

He is exploiting the capitalist system the best he can. That is the whole point of this breed of capitalism, after all, to exploit and manipulate other people out of their money. The past 30 years of economic progress were built upon rich people buying favors from politicians, politicians creating leeway for the donating rich to build more wealth, in return patting the backs of politicians they elect and fund campaigns for, which returns even more faovrable legislation....rinse, repeat over and over. Now any type of middle or working middle class is largely cut out of money and staying power because thirty years is a long time to be stolen from with nothing in return; and money is power, after all.

A joke in the way you described. Buffett is buying access and making money through quid pro quo with the government. That's wrong and I don't want my taxes going into his pocket against my will. Now contrast that with Steve Jobs. I purchase Apple products, enrich Steve Jobs, and have no problem with it. Anyone in America has the opportunity to be as successful as him.
 
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804brown

Well-Known Member
Declaration of the Occupation of New York City


by NYC General Assembly This document was accepted by the NYC General Assembly on September 29, 2011, with slight adjustments in wording on October 1, 2011

As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.
As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.
They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.

They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.

They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.

They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.

They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.

They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.

They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.

They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.

They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.
They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.

They have sold our privacy as a commodity.

They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press. They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.

They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.

They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.

They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.

They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.

They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.

They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.

They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.

They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad. They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.

They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts. *
To the people of the world,
We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.
Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.
To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.
Join us and make your voices heard!
*These grievances are not all-inclusive.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
Mass GrassRoots Democracy and it's starting to grow across the land!


I noticed a number of "End the Fed" signs so I wonder which Commie, Socialist, Liberal Puke planted that grass?
:wink2:
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
The Idea behind occuy Wall st is a great example of Americans getting together to voice their dis-satisfaction with how things run. Companies got bailed out while the working men and woman of this country got sold out. These companies where given money to stay in business. Now they are back giving out bonuses to the knuckle heads that caused many of these problems. They are not hiring and saving money which is not going back into the economy.

The problem most people have are teh :censored2: bags that the news finds to interview. They do not help the cause by speaking. Anyone here in 97 remember the strike???? Remember being on the line and told not to talk to the media??? Refer media to so and so??? Thats because those of us that we allowed to talk to the media knew hat to say and how to say it.

This needs more organization and people to lead it properly instead of the free for all it has turned out to be.
 
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