OSHA or Labor laws regarding bathroom breaks.

[tomuchdrama]

what about the people who step out to have a smoke,on company time.

 

[UPSSOCKS]

Although I strongly disagree with your post, there is some truth in the fact that this generation of new hire has a completely different work ethic than did mine. They all have a sense of entitlement like everyone owes them something and they don't have to earn their stripes like all of us did coming up thru the ranks. I suppose it's all the technology and modern amenities that helped lead to the "I don't have to work, Someone will give me what I want" mentality. Or maybe it's just our generations fault for spoiling the kids too much. Whatever it is, kids don't want to work these days like we did 20 years ago!!

Not just new hires... It's the age range from 18-30... I we hire anyone under 30, nine times out of ten they are worthless..

 

[UPSSOCKS]

You must have turned 50 this year? Its the same old, "back in the day I....". People are the same, there have always been bads ones. You are the one that has changed over the years, your views of the world are now set in stone.

The bad to good ratio was about 10 bad to 90 good before, now it's getting close to 50/50.

The vast majority of employees are hard working, do the right thing people. We like our jobs (read paychecks) and we do our best to keep things moving and working productively. What we don't like is being penalized because less than 1% of the workforce abuses the system. Making everyone suiffer and clock in and out to pee would not surprise me, but would certainly disappoint me.

Where do you work and those do the right thing people would cut your throat for a buck....

On a side note I would like to see UPS go back to giving a few carrots once in a while instead of more sticks. But, yes you're right, sticks are free and results can be seen immediatly. Carrots cost money and the results are long term investments that can't be justified on a spreadsheet.

Carrot? How about your free benefits. I bet your 29. You take everything for granite. The hard working generations of the union fought to get your free benefits. That's when hard working people outnumbered lazy ones. Once the union workforce starts paying for benefits, we won't get anymore good workers. No one will want to work here. In the end, lazy employees paying for healthcare will be a wash. considering what we lost.
Robert

 

[UPSSOCKS]

what about the people who step out to have a smoke,on company time.

Hourly Employees should never be smoking on company time, so I assume you are talking about management. So with that being said, if you want to worry about what other people are doing, put in your letter of intent to be a part time supervisor. Every manager runs their hub/center that way they want to. Personally I don't care if management step outside for a smoke. With that being said, all their work better be done, and if part time be under 5.5 hours. Oh and god help them if one of their employees get hurt while they are smoking. If you make it very clear to your management team of your expectations most will fall in line and only step outside when they can.

 

[22.34life]

This is how things get ruined for the good employees.. Let's face it, now a days the bad employees out number the good ones. That's why the Union is weak and washed up. The new generation of the union are running it into the ground too. They are all selfers. I was friends with a union steward once, and he recently retired. I went to the local watering hole to bid him farewell. Needless to say I wasn't very welcome at the party.

He told me the days of people taking pride in a job well done is over. He said a fair days pay, for a fair days work is over. He told me that he was having trouble going to bat for some of his younger brothers because they were pieces of doo doo, and deep down he knew they didn't deserve the job, or benefits that are provided by UPS. He said at one time he worked with a team and the term "move to the work" meant something, it meant bailing out your friend so they could go have a beer together.

Now when people run out of work, they go to the bathroom. Instead of helping someone else out... They go to the bathroom. I hope this flies. I bet bathroom breaks instantly are cut in half...

Ur point that the new hires are mostly sh**bags I think is right on,but I don't think it has anything to do with age though.ten years ago there was a pecking order by senority ,when I started in the load everthing was done by senority ,I would see the pickoffs come down and punch out and leave no matter how blown up we were when we went down,unless they wanted to stay.lowest senority loaded the heaviest truck and ran the recycles .my point is it gave u something to work towards now they don't have that,whether u agree with the senority system or not it worked better than what they do now

 

[UPSSOCKS]

Ur point that the new hires are mostly sh**bags I think is right on,but I don't think it has anything to do with age though.ten years ago there was a pecking order by senority ,when I started in the load everthing was done by senority ,I would see the pickoffs come down and punch out and leave no matter how blown up we were when we went down,unless they wanted to stay.lowest senority loaded the heaviest truck and ran the recycles .my point is it gave u something to work towards now they don't have that,whether u agree with the senority system or not it worked better than what they do now

Good stuff... I was expecting something to tee off on but you're right. A weak union made it this way....

 

[mzungu]

Talked to OSHA. you cannot be told to wait. If you are out in what they term mobile crews you are to be provided immediate transportation to a restroom. This part of it would apply to drivers. They have no jusidiction on if it is personal or paid time. They deferred to Dept. of Labor, wage and hour division. Talked to someone there today. When nature calls, the movement(literally) is on the company dime. She read me the statute, which she is going to mail to me. It is not on their website. I will post it once I have it. I am sure all management will assume we will all screw the company with this Knawleege(just a dumb ol truck driver) figuring out new ways to screw the man.

 

[22.34life]

Good stuff... I was expecting something to tee off on but you're right. A weak union made it this way....

I dont know if its a case of the union being weak or if its because we used to do a lot of things that wasnt exactly in the contract.To me their was a lot of stuff going on and people thought that this was the way things worked ,now fast foward some years later and the company says hey we dont like the way this is going and change it,now people are like hey you cant do that.Most people dont even have a contract book much less open it and read it,to many people take a union stewards word for something instead of reading it for them selfs.regardless of who is weak or not the old way was better.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

I dont know if its a case of the union being weak or if its because we used to do a lot of things that wasnt exactly in the contract.To me their was a lot of stuff going on and people thought that this was the way things worked ,now fast foward some years later and the company says hey we dont like the way this is going and change it,now people are like hey you cant do that.Most people dont even have a contract book much less open it and read it,to many people take a union stewards word for something instead of reading it for them selfs.regardless of who is weak or not the old way was better.

that has nothing to do with the @work mistreatment and new management styles going on. You can easily blame the quality of new-hires and blame the new generation of worker, which is very true and certainly has merit.
But to be clear, this isn't the same UPS at 10 years ago on all sides, mgmt or hourly.

So which came first the chicken or the egg? It's easy to blame the worker but I'm more than positive that the crappy attitudes and poor work ethic stems from their management team as well. Doesn't apply so much to brand new people, but anyone with their 30 days is fair game to argue.

 

[22.34life]

that has nothing to do with the @work mistreatment and new management styles going on. You can easily blame the quality of new-hires and blame the new generation of worker, which is very true and certainly has merit.
But to be clear, this isn't the same UPS at 10 years ago on all sides, mgmt or hourly.

So which came first the chicken or the egg? It's easy to blame the worker but I'm more than positive that the crappy attitudes and poor work ethic stems from their management team as well. Doesn't apply so much to brand new people, but anyone with their 30 days is fair game to argue.

its true that it isnt the same ups as ten years and like you said on both sides,but i have to say i dont really see this giant change in the way we are treated,i mean they are pushing us harder than ever before but i mean treatment wise like going out of their way to be jerks i dont see.most fulltime management have been with the company for at least 10 years or more,most managers 20 years or more, so where would this new management style come from.keep in mind everthing i am saying is from a hub perspective and not a drivers,i believe drivers are being treated more and more like crap but i guess we all work for the same ups so i guess more or less what you are saying is true.In the hub things have not changed that much as far as unfair treatment to me just wanting more out of us,now dont get me wrong their are some real A**holes at ups on both sides but for the most part the treatment is a two way street, some union people treat managment like crap and vice versa.but hasnt it always been like that.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

its true that it isnt the same ups as ten years and like you said on both sides,but i have to say i dont really see this giant change in the way we are treated,i mean they are pushing us harder than ever before but i mean treatment wise like going out of their way to be jerks i dont see.most fulltime management have been with the company for at least 10 years or more,most managers 20 years or more, so where would this new management style come from.keep in mind everthing i am saying is from a hub perspective and not a drivers,i believe drivers are being treated more and more like crap but i guess we all work for the same ups so i guess more or less what you are saying is true.In the hub things have not changed that much as far as unfair treatment to me just wanting more out of us,now dont get me wrong their are some real A**holes at ups on both sides but for the most part the treatment is a two way street, some union people treat managment like crap and vice versa.but hasnt it always been like that.

I agree with you. What I meant was that the change over time isn't noticiable, but if you could take a snapshot of 10 years ago and now, there we would be a noticable change. However because we deal with the day-to-day, it's gradual.

Did you mean to say it always has been like that?

 

[Braveheart]

osha and the nlrb will protect your right to go the bathroom when you need to but will not dictate your right to sit on the crapper and be paid for it. If they did then you could theoretically get paid to sit on the toilet for 8 hours each day.

I see this happen from time to time when bathroom breaks are abused. Police your own. You know who they are.

Do you think an onroad asking a driver to clock out for, and I am not kidding, 2 minutes for urination and washing hands as abuse of the toilet time???

Or is it more like UPS being off the deep end with the BS.

 

[rocket man]

It has come to this that we are now being told if nature calls, you need to punch a button and do it on your time. Does anyone know if there are any labor laws regarding clarification on this. I have a call into OSHA, their website defers to states and the NLRB, they do have some language regarding this but it seems to be on a case to case basis. I am guessing since we are under a national contract, if it is labor law it would be the NLRB and not a state issue. Can anyone shine some light on this or is this happening elsewhere?

AS IT WAS QUOTED IN THE GODFATHER (you gotta go you gotta go.

 

[tieguy]

Do you think an onroad asking a driver to clock out for, and I am not kidding, 2 minutes for urination and washing hands as abuse of the toilet time???

Or is it more like UPS being off the deep end with the BS.

The only time I've seen management impose such an extreme policy is when employees abused the privledge. There was a time when you going to the bathroom was always on break or meal. Management has looked at that as being a little extreme and let it fall by the wayside unless the policy is abused. I had an inside employee who would go on break every day from 715 to 730 pm. at 745 just like clock work he would leave his area to go take a 15 minute dump. He was a mean old nasty cuss who the other sups were afraid of. So I had to be the bad guy.

I should not have had to challenge such a mindset . People should realize that they are paid to work not go to the bathroom and should not abuse the privledge of being paid while you go. Its that simple.

but thats the nice thing about these threads you can share an experience where some sup is being a dick about two minutes and I can share one about some ******* wanting to be paid to take his daily constitutional.

 

[tranham]

This is how things get ruined for the good employees.. Let's face it, now a days the bad employees out number the good ones. That's why the Union is weak and washed up. The new generation of the union are running it into the ground too. They are all selfers. I was friends with a union steward once, and he recently retired. I went to the local watering hole to bid him farewell. Needless to say I wasn't very welcome at the party.

He told me the days of people taking pride in a job well done is over. He said a fair days pay, for a fair days work is over. He told me that he was having trouble going to bat for some of his younger brothers because they were pieces of doo doo, and deep down he knew they didn't deserve the job, or benefits that are provided by UPS. He said at one time he worked with a team and the term "move to the work" meant something, it meant bailing out your friend so they could go have a beer together.

Now when people run out of work, they go to the bathroom. Instead of helping someone else out... They go to the bathroom. I hope this flies. I bet bathroom breaks instantly are cut in half...

Now that I think about it, the quality of workers at UPS may have to do with the wages. Part timers have not really had a much better starting rate in the last 20 years have they? Would not the smarter/hard working employee rather labor at a higher rate/less work in a resturant, for example. I still see plenty of youth with good work ethics in the Boy Scout troop I work with.

Robert

 

[SWORDFISH]

Going pee being an issue is really part of why UPS is going down the toilet. This kind of nitpicking has changed the attitude of the workers. UPS has plenty of good workers that are motivated to not work hard for thier company due to this kind of harassment. My supe tried to pull that bs on me and I told him go ahead and tell the center manager Im not taking anytime off for the pee break. I never heard a word about it after that. Now I do it and he says nothing. People should try to do it during lunch and at break but sometimes nature calls when your running route. I got an idea lets work hard together to get a job done. Let the little things go both ways and lets make the company that pays us all successful.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Do you think an onroad asking a driver to clock out for, and I am not kidding, 2 minutes for urination and washing hands as abuse of the toilet time???

Or is it more like UPS being off the deep end with the BS.

When numbers are not met, I find that supervisors will create any excuse available to cover the fact they aren't successful.

When supervisors are caught working, it's always blaming the employee that " didn't show up
" instead of the fact they in reality sent someone home and they didn't call anyone in to cover! THis was a true story a few months ago, the lead steward was flat-out lied to by the supervisor and I was right there to hear it.

AN area is underperforming? yeah, all 20 employees are abusing the restroom privledge! ok.

 

[UPSSOCKS]

Now that I think about it, the quality of workers at UPS may have to do with the wages. Part timers have not really had a much better starting rate in the last 20 years have they? Would not the smarter/hard working employee rather labor at a higher rate/less work in a resturant, for example. I still see plenty of youth with good work ethics in the Boy Scout troop I work with.

Robert

But at a if you are a waiter, what do you have to look forward to? Twenty years from now, you will be a waiter. UPS offers so many different paths to take. Package Driver, 22.3, Feeder Driver, PT supervision, Full time Specialist, BD, IE, HR, CSHP, PE, mechanics. If you go to UPS right out of high school and use them to pay for your college opportunities are endless. By the time your 30, you will have a decent career whether you go the mangement route, the hourly route, or you take the free education and run with a respectable company on your resume.

 

[just interested]

But at a if you are a waiter, what do you have to look forward to? Twenty years from now, you will be a waiter. UPS offers so many different paths to take. Package Driver, 22.3, Feeder Driver, PT supervision, Full time Specialist, BD, IE, HR, CSHP, PE, mechanics. If you go to UPS right out of high school and use them to pay for your college opportunities are endless. By the time your 30, you will have a decent career whether you go the mangement route, the hourly route, or you take the free education and run with a respectable company on your resume.

Hey UPSSOCKS~

I'm new so sorry to everyone for my not understanding what the lingo is:
What is a 22.3?
Feeder Driver?
Full time Specialist?
BD?
CSHP?
PE?

Are they positions that a driver usually wants to strive for or is driving the best place to be?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

What is a 22.3? UPS agreed to add 10,000 FT jobs over the life of the 2002-08 contract essentially by combining PT jobs. These jobs are not being filled when they become vacant.

Feeder Driver? These are the employees who drive the tractor trailers. They also know the location of every Dunkin Donuts and generally need to order pants with a bigger waist.

Full time Specialist? Supervisors not involved in package operations.

BD? Business development--tasked with gaining new volume while retaining present volume. They also know the location of every Starbuck's.

CSHP? Safety.

PE? Physical engineering, also called plant engineering.

Are they positions that a driver usually wants to strive for or is driving the best place to be?

The answer to this questions depends solely upon the person. I have put my letter in on 3 separate occasions. 2 happened to be during a hiring freeze. The first one I had some customer service issues which did not look favorable. With 21 years in I would be foolish to try again.

$30/hr plus benefits for a job that does not require more than a HS diploma is nothing to sneeze at.