Please help..freaking out..husband fired for accident

rod

Retired 22 years
Think about it for a minute:

we don't fire people very well since most get their jobs back.

the cost of firing someone is very expensive

the time and effort of training someone is very expensive

the biggest destroyer of your centers results is turnover

the time, training and effort required to run a second bid is an expense of time and resources

Your premise is rediculous. So again either your source is whacked out delusional or he is setting you up to look like a schumck.
Ok - so what was wrong with my old center? They fired employees there for looking cross-eyed. My old center was small (about 45 - 50 total union people).
 

paidslave

Well-Known Member
I really don't know how to answer such a bizarre concept.

It would be like me saying I'm going to repaint my house every weekend. The amount of work it takes to do what you and do less suggest is astronimical already without their generating all this rework.

No sane management person would ever employ such tactics.


Correct....I think you got it....This doesn't make sense, ie.. UPS enjoys doing things more than once as long as their bonus is there! Turn a blind eye to bonus drivers with crappy method because it looks good on conference calls but when the paint dries nobody knows why it looks like fecal matter! Wonder if this driver was rushed to be off clock under 9.5 with a 11.5 load?

This is based on my past experience and I hope this mentality changes in the future?


Management knows diddly.......All they want to know is what your ETA is.....
 

IDoLessWorkThanMost

Well-Known Member
Getting rid of a top rate driver for a 20 something young kid or whatever numbers runner, you want to call it, is a 20-40k/year savings prospect, mulitply that by 500 or 1000 or whatever number you choose nationally, you end up in the one hundred million PER YEAR ballpark. I'll glady break down the math for you, Tieguy, after I go grocery shopping this evening. so to tell me again I'm rediculous for bringing this up... :)

I'm sorry for the borderline OT, although it MAY apply deep-down in some way..
 

filthpig

Well-Known Member
If your husband stays in touch with his BA and files a grievance, all should be well. About a month ago we had a driver (a good fella) canned for a roll-away, which is a cardinal sin. He got his job back after 3 weeks. Just be sure and dot the I's and cross the T's. It'll be okay.
 

barnyard

KTM rider
Getting rid of a top rate driver for a 20 something young kid or whatever numbers runner, you want to call it, is a 20-40k/year savings prospect, mulitply that by 500 or 1000 or whatever number you choose nationally, you end up in the one hundred million PER YEAR ballpark. I'll glady break down the math for you, Tieguy, after I go grocery shopping this evening. so to tell me again I'm rediculous for bringing this up... :)

I'm sorry for the borderline OT, although it MAY apply deep-down in some way..

There may be cost savings in actual payroll, but there are other numbers to add in: training (UPS driving school) and ride alongs. In my center, I was told that it costs UPS $15,000 to train a new driver through making seniority. How about lost production and lost knowledge base. It's alot easier to send out a 5 year cut driver, than a seasonal (I know 30 routes in my center.)

I know that never is a long time, but I have never met a manager that was interested in high turnover. All of them prefer to work with vets that they can "set and forget."

TB
 
A

Accident behind me

Guest
upserwife.......

It is easy for me to say but it is true. I was cited for a teer 3 accident, barely caused any damage, did not go to hospital for a urine test. I was fired for two days then had my hearing on friday, was turned into a suspension, didnt have insurance till i went back to work two weeks later, so be carefull. the bad thing is it happened at the wrong time of the year. i have been laid off for 2 months due to being to low on the senority list. Just stay calm and he will have a hearing 1 to 2 weeks and probably get another week or so. I know when i had my accident i just couldnt wait till it was over and it is just a waiting game. You will get stuff in the mail about the termination, like 401k and insurance. Just remember to sign back up for all that stuff after he gets his job back. Good Luck everything will be okay.............
 

paidslave

Well-Known Member
There may be cost savings in actual payroll, but there are other numbers to add in: training (UPS driving school) and ride alongs. In my center, I was told that it costs UPS $15,000 to train a new driver through making seniority. How about lost production and lost knowledge base. It's alot easier to send out a 5 year cut driver, than a seasonal (I know 30 routes in my center.)

I know that never is a long time, but I have never met a manager that was interested in high turnover. All of them prefer to work with vets that they can "set and forget."

TB

I have to totally disagree with your 15k figure....For feeder drivers a driver works a whole week without pay! And for new package drivers these are usually preloader hourlys that are hard workers and catch on pretty quickly!

The only thing it cost them is a uniform or two! Not too much, maybe a couple ride alongs with a supervisor that probably wouldn't have done much that day but run misroutes!

Its the grill theory,,,,,if the grill is fired up it will cook 1 hot dog or 10 and it really doesn't know the difference!
 

IDoLessWorkThanMost

Well-Known Member
There may be cost savings in actual payroll, but there are other numbers to add in: training (UPS driving school) and ride alongs. In my center, I was told that it costs UPS $15,000 to train a new driver through making seniority. How about lost production and lost knowledge base. It's alot easier to send out a 5 year cut driver, than a seasonal (I know 30 routes in my center.)

I know that never is a long time, but I have never met a manager that was interested in high turnover. All of them prefer to work with vets that they can "set and forget."

TB

I disagree.

Let me just break this down a bit further, and again this IS my opinion and not etched in stone....

It is understood that it would take time to train; but on our bid list this last bid, there are about twice more training routes and approximately twice the cover drivers compared to the previous year! It is quite apparent that route drivers are becoming more scarce and covers more accessible.

And let's look at PAS, which simply took all the fun (IMO) out of the job (preloading). Now it's mindless crap inmates freshly hired from the state pen can easily tackle...

No manager wants to lose a hard working, professional driver or worker, period, that day in and day out gets it done and efficiently. But there are the 20-30% of workers that are borderline; not so efficient, not so young, aches and pains, sometimes arrogant or less than civil (you name the character trait)...

..these are more than disposable to management and I highly doubt they would regret spending a small amount ( much smaller than you advertise, BTW....$15,000 to train one driver? Please, show me that provocative number origin!) to train a fresh pair of legs and mind....

Regardless, we can argue in circles about this until blue in the face...
 

IDoLessWorkThanMost

Well-Known Member
I have to totally disagree with your 15k figure....For feeder drivers a driver works a whole week without pay! And for new package drivers these are usually preloader hourlys that are hard workers and catch on pretty quickly!

The only thing it cost them is a uniform or two! Not too much, maybe a couple ride alongs with a supervisor that probably wouldn't have done much that day but run misroutes!

Its the grill theory,,,,,if the grill is fired up it will cook 1 hot dog or 10 and it really doesn't know the difference!

Nice point about hiring from within. Most preloaders between 2 and 5 years have more than enough knowledge of UPS ( at least pre-PAS, not so certain in this new era ) to put the right foot forward with regards to driving....

Importantly, This isn't necessarily about drivers. It's about workers - be it part-time, driving, or 22.3 ( which management particularly targets!)

The point is, the driver by this threads author may have been in a minor fender bender, likely given unnecessary intimidation and deception, and on the recieving end of an ego-trip.

Gee, never at UPS! d:
 

DS

Fenderbender
upsrwife,I know personally how devastating being terminated can feel.
I had 3 accidents in 3 months a few years ago.I'd been a full time driver for 12 years at that point and we had one of those center manager's like the one you described.I had just recieved a 6 yr safe driving award prior to this,and really thought I was in for some heavy duty retraining,or maybe a 3 day suspension.I was wrong.That morning I was told that unfortunately I could not be trusted out there with a ups truck,was asked for my I.D. and the little creep asked me if I would please just leave quietly or did he have to get security to lead me out.I spent 4 days putting in job applications while calling the union for updates,which not one was returned.Thurday my oncar sup called and said to come in at 7:30 Friday and attend a meeting.At this time I was told that my record to that date had been taken into account,and my termination had been reduced to a 5 day suspension,and to show up Monday ready for duty.
Please keep us informed.Someone mentioned calling the corporate number but I wouldn't do that until everything at the local level failed.
best of luck,and dont freak out yet.
 

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
Boys, quit hijacking this womans thread. If you want to start a thread on UPS turn over, the "post new thread" button is right there on top.

Now, on, or back to the accident.

My dear, you posted
he was ticketed for careless
That is a very serious charge to get a ticket for. Are you sure that is what the ticket said, or was it failure to yield? That could make a big difference.

As to your feelings about the center manager, we could care less. They can be total A$$e$, or really nice guys, the feeling you get from them, or your husband gets from them is not part of the issue here.

When the supervisor (who hates everyone) got there he fired my husband on the spot
Ahh unless you are not a full time driver, you are guaranteed a full days pay. Even if they take you off road after an accident.

the supervisor fired him as soon as he pulled up to the accident. without even knowing if there would be a tow or not
Around here, you can not take disiplinary action against an hourly unless there is a shop steward present. As has been mentioned, once they have pronounced the punishment, any new evidence that is brought to light later on should be not considered.

Now, here is where I have a real problem with what you posted. I waited until now to see if any one else picked up on it.

then in the meeting the next morning they said he was fired because he had a tier 3 accident......and all of a sudden the supervisor said that after everyone left the other driver needed a tow. we think he is lying and called the person to have it towed from his house just so he can fire my husband

First question, how did your husband get back to the center? Who took him. Now, you stated that they had it towed from his house.....???? The contract reads from the scene, not later on from his house. Was it hauled away from the scene or from his house? And again, where was your husband? Now, as easy as this is to verify, I can not believe a manager would lie like this.

Because see, you posted this later on
my husbands supervisor said that after everyone left the scene the driver called for a tow.

I find it interesting that the other driver and the center manager were the last two people to leave the scene. Where was every one else? Who continued your husbands route? How, again did your husband get home? Also, again, where was the cop. you stated you are in enforcement of some type. Does it not strike you as strange that the cop left the scene without all the accidnet being cleared? (that means all the vehicles moved off site)

Do what you want, but I would contact the other driver. I would apologize for the accident, find out how they doing. You want to be sincere in your concerne for them. You might also inquire if their car was fixed etc. Ask question, but not to pointed, leave them open to expand on their answers. Main thing you want to do is show the concern for them and their well being.

it really was that small of an accident

You keep repeating this statement. You also state that the fender was bent, and the tire flat. While I would have no idea on your accident, without further investigating, you do know that it takes quite a hit to take the tire off the rim. and that the impact on that rim and tire can cause serious damage to either the steering or the drive axle, causing the car to look just fine, but not be able to be driven? You state the driver refused the tow, changed the tire, but did they move the car? And where was the cop? They are to stay until the accident site is cleared, not leave before? The severity of the accident will be taken into consideration, as well as the potential for much greater damage and bodily injury.

he is not "suspended", he is fired, they told him his insurance stopped yesterday
Around here you prepay your insurance two months in advance. In other words, the money that the company pays for your insurance this week goes to pay the benifits in June. And if it is different where you are, you are still covered under cobra, as that is federal law I believe. Sounds like someone is jerking you around.
then they can't come back later and make any other accusations
I disagree with the others. Dont open up a can of worms. Unless they think you are on something, they will not open it either. And if they dont require it, or the state requires it, dont muddy the waters. There is nothing more suspicious as the man who offers up too much "proof" of his inocence of something he has not even been charged with.

Once the window of testing is over, too bad so sad, they can not muddy the waters with accusations. Anyone that says so is dreaming.

So, to sum it up, where was the car towed from, the persons house, or the scene? If they drove it home, and then found out they could not drive it, then it has no bearing on the accident. Also, where was your hubby during all this, and the cop. And who finished the route, and took your hubby home?


Tooner
Tooner: We like to fix things
So that's what it is?:wink2:

d
 

1989

Well-Known Member
I was involved in a tier3 accident (head on) last year and was taken out of service the rest on the day. I was told if it would have been avoidable I would have been fired. Pending panel of course.
 

upsrwife

Active Member
dannyboy, thank you for your attention

the accident happened
the center mgr and road supervisor showed up
the cop showed up
before any finalization of anything the center mgr said your fired, no union there.
the center mgr left the scene
the cop completed the accident report. he was ticketed for careless (which is no where near as bad a wreckless (you can get arrested for that) but now UPS is changing the wording to wreckless. there is a big difference. but the ticket does say careless.
the driver's father came, drove the car back away from the accident and out of the road, pulled out the dent, changed the flat and refused the tow. the cop's report said not tow, driver refused and handled. and the driver's father said "we don't need a tow, we live around the corner". at that time the cop knew that, but the center mgr was already gone.
the driver and family were loading up there car getting ready to leave, the road supervisor drove my husband back to the building, someone else took his truck to finish the deliveries.
then the next morning at the meeting my husband had the union rep there and they said AGAIN you are fired, and the mgr's EXACT WORDS were:
"oh, they ended up getting towed after everyone left, if you don't believe me you can call them".

now what mgr would say that like that? fishy

and that's how it happened exactly.

thanks again
 

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
So the car was moved from the accident scene? Or they towed it from the scene? If he moved it, then it would seem to me that the car was not towed from the scene of the accident. If as you stated they had the car towed after it was moved and driven, then they have missed their mark. The contract is specific, it has to be removed from the scene. Not down the road, or around the corner. From the scene.

Now, that being said, like I posted earlier, there could have been damage to the inner workings of either axle that would have made the vehicle unsafe to drive.

Personally, I would never drive a vehicle that has been in an accident involving the wheels or axles from the scene until it has been checked over by someone with experience in that type of damage.

As also mentioned, I would carefully gather information from the other drivers father. Knowledge is something that stands to benifit you.

But I would also be careful on banking on odds. In my years as a steward, I have seen slam dunk cases go the wrong way. Not often but I have seen it happen. Not to rain on your day, but you need to deal with reality and know what can happen.

d
 

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
they ended up getting towed after everyone left, if you don't believe me you can call them".

now what mgr would say that like that

A manager that is telling you the truth. OR he thinks you will not call them?

I repeat, its not that they called a wrecker to tow the vehicle, its where they towed it from. The minute they move the vehicle away from the scene, there goes that reason for termination.

d
 

tieguy

Banned
Getting rid of a top rate driver for a 20 something young kid or whatever numbers runner, you want to call it, is a 20-40k/year savings prospect, mulitply that by 500 or 1000 or whatever number you choose nationally, you end up in the one hundred million PER YEAR ballpark. I'll glady break down the math for you, Tieguy, after I go grocery shopping this evening. so to tell me again I'm rediculous for bringing this up... :)

I'm sorry for the borderline OT, although it MAY apply deep-down in some way..

If the cost was going into that sups pocket maybe. where is he going to find the time of day to play all these games. You should go back to the sup that told you this and give him hell for jerking you around with these wild bs concepts.
 

upsrwife

Active Member
the car was driven by the father out of the road to the side of the road, where he refused tow, pulled out the dent, changed the tire and said he lived around the corner and would drive home. nobody actually saw him drive home as everyone left as he was loading up his car and getting ready to leave.
 

tieguy

Banned
dannyboy, thank you for your attention

the accident happened
the center mgr and road supervisor showed up
the cop showed up
before any finalization of anything the center mgr said your fired, no union there.
the center mgr left the scene
the cop completed the accident report. he was ticketed for careless (which is no where near as bad a wreckless (you can get arrested for that) but now UPS is changing the wording to wreckless. there is a big difference. but the ticket does say careless.
the driver's father came, drove the car back away from the accident and out of the road, pulled out the dent, changed the flat and refused the tow. the cop's report said not tow, driver refused and handled. and the driver's father said "we don't need a tow, we live around the corner". at that time the cop knew that, but the center mgr was already gone.
the driver and family were loading up there car getting ready to leave, the road supervisor drove my husband back to the building, someone else took his truck to finish the deliveries.
then the next morning at the meeting my husband had the union rep there and they said AGAIN you are fired, and the mgr's EXACT WORDS were:
"oh, they ended up getting towed after everyone left, if you don't believe me you can call them".

now what mgr would say that like that? fishy

and that's how it happened exactly.

thanks again

If it is as you say you should thank the center manager for screwing up the case. We have the right to investigate an accident for I believe up to twenty days before deciding discipline.( contract not handy) Once the center manager announces discipline the investigation is over and no other evidence can be introduced. So any evidence gathered after the center manager told your husband he was fired is not admissable.
 
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