Lead Belly
BANNED
Ohio loves H2O. Just ask the members who voted out all the teamsters United slates.
TDU goes down again
- Thread starter BigUnionGuy
- Start date
BrownBrokeDown
Well-Known Member
I have been hammered by both sides and will be again for this. I sit where in the middle like oldupsman. In no way do i believe that zuckerman is the answer, as i've said change for just to be changing isnt always good. But at this point Hoffa doesn't seem to be the answer either. BUG i have great respect for you also, your view points and conviction behind them remind me of my grandfather in many ways. He was a teamster from the late 50's through the early 80's. I got to see growing up what the teamsters did for him.
But this is a different era, i realize. Just because it is a different era, doesn't mean we have to go all in on the givebacks. Sorry but H&H failed on the retirees healthcare this last contract. No excuse, the company's profits don't equal the increased pay for them. Well, its a negotiation right? So we gave 4 yr progression for drivers, not increasing healthcare contribution high enough where the retirees are screwed, slightly better pay progression during the first 3 years of progression but the added 4th year negates the benefit. PTers got better starting pay and progression pay, but its still behind where it should have been since there was roughly 20 years with no change. What did we get out of it? Oh i imagine that UPS came to the table with some ridiculous demands. I even imagine that they probably came to the table demanding a tiered wage on drivers. But, imo, we gave up way to much for a company making this kind of money.
which takes us to a strike. Different day and age. A large majority of the public would not have rallied around us this time. We would have lost customers But without the ability to make a convincing threat of a strike, what leverage do we actually have?
In many ways, due to todays political climate unions period are in a tough spot for negotiations. Old was right. We need someone with fire in his belly (cough cough like you BUG). I was seriously hoping O'brian was going to run for top office...
Last note before i end the rambling that alone will probably get me crucified. The intimidation
has got to stop we are all in this together both sides are doing it. Im referring to O'brian, zuckerman, zuckermans people, and many other irl not on the message boards. On the message boards, rather than namecalling each other and the candidates, we should be working together to come up with a solution. TDU needs to disappear but when so many are unhappy, some will turn to anyone to help.
my 236 cents.
But this is a different era, i realize. Just because it is a different era, doesn't mean we have to go all in on the givebacks. Sorry but H&H failed on the retirees healthcare this last contract. No excuse, the company's profits don't equal the increased pay for them. Well, its a negotiation right? So we gave 4 yr progression for drivers, not increasing healthcare contribution high enough where the retirees are screwed, slightly better pay progression during the first 3 years of progression but the added 4th year negates the benefit. PTers got better starting pay and progression pay, but its still behind where it should have been since there was roughly 20 years with no change. What did we get out of it? Oh i imagine that UPS came to the table with some ridiculous demands. I even imagine that they probably came to the table demanding a tiered wage on drivers. But, imo, we gave up way to much for a company making this kind of money.
which takes us to a strike. Different day and age. A large majority of the public would not have rallied around us this time. We would have lost customers But without the ability to make a convincing threat of a strike, what leverage do we actually have?
In many ways, due to todays political climate unions period are in a tough spot for negotiations. Old was right. We need someone with fire in his belly (cough cough like you BUG). I was seriously hoping O'brian was going to run for top office...
Last note before i end the rambling that alone will probably get me crucified. The intimidation
has got to stop we are all in this together both sides are doing it. Im referring to O'brian, zuckerman, zuckermans people, and many other irl not on the message boards. On the message boards, rather than namecalling each other and the candidates, we should be working together to come up with a solution. TDU needs to disappear but when so many are unhappy, some will turn to anyone to help.my 236 cents.
BrownBrokeDown
Well-Known Member
PS another give back. Campanies profits campared with going from industry leading insurance that is an A++ to industry leading insurance that is an A. Its still wonderful, fantastic, tremendous, etc, but why should we not have equal insurance with the teamsters that we had with UPS?
oldupsman
Well-Known Member
I have been hammered by both sides and will be again for this. I sit where in the middle like oldupsman. In no way do i believe that Z is the answer, as i've said change for just to be changing isnt always good. But at this point H doesn't seem to be the answer either. BUG i have great respect for you also, your view points and conviction behind them remind me of my grandfather in many ways. He was a teamster from the late 50's through the early 80's. I got to see growing up what the teamsters did for him.
But this is a different era, i realize. Just because it is a different era, doesn't mean we have to go all in on the givebacks. Sorry but H&H failed on the retirees healthcare this last contract. No excuse, the company's profits don't equal the increased pay for them. Well, its a negotiation right? So we gave 4 yr progression for drivers, not increasing healthcare contribution high enough where the retirees are screwed, slightly better pay progression during the first 3 years of progression but the added 4th year negates the benefit. PTers got better starting pay and progression pay, but its still behind where it should have been since there was roughly 20 years with no change. What did we get out of it? Oh i imagine that UPS came to the table with some ridiculous demands. I even imagine that they probably came to the table demanding a tiered wage on drivers. But, imo, we gave up way to much for a company making this kind of money.
which takes us to a strike. Different day and age. A large majority of the public would not have rallied around us this time. We would have lost customers But without the ability to make a convincing threat of a strike, what leverage do we actually have?
In many ways, due to todays political climate unions period are in a tough spot for negotiations. Old was right. We need someone with fire in his belly (cough cough like you BUG). I was seriously hoping O'brian was going to run for top office...
Last note before i end the rambling that alone will probably get me crucified. The intimidation
my 236 cents.
I'm certainly not going to crucify you. I think your post was right on, not to mention made alot of sense. However there are some people
on this board that don't like sensible posts. It's easier to just call somebody an expletive.
Bubblehead
My Senior Picture
How long will that insurance stay that way?
Will it be a B+ next year when the first $400 for health care comes straight out of our pockets?
I'm sure @Lead Belly will chime in how $400 is a drop in the bucket for a $100,000 driver like him.
But what about the 22.3's making half that, or the part time making maybe half of that half?
I contend that it's just "the tip of the iceberg".
I certainly hope that I am wrong.
10 point
Well-Known Member
Get the majority of part timers to vote and the give backs have a better chance of stopping.I have been hammered by both sides and will be again for this. I sit where in the middle like oldupsman. In no way do i believe that Z is the answer, as i've said change for just to be changing isnt always good. But at this point H doesn't seem to be the answer either. BUG i have great respect for you also, your view points and conviction behind them remind me of my grandfather in many ways. He was a teamster from the late 50's through the early 80's. I got to see growing up what the teamsters did for him.
But this is a different era, i realize. Just because it is a different era, doesn't mean we have to go all in on the givebacks. Sorry but H&H failed on the retirees healthcare this last contract. No excuse, the company's profits don't equal the increased pay for them. Well, its a negotiation right? So we gave 4 yr progression for drivers, not increasing healthcare contribution high enough where the retirees are screwed, slightly better pay progression during the first 3 years of progression but the added 4th year negates the benefit. PTers got better starting pay and progression pay, but its still behind where it should have been since there was roughly 20 years with no change. What did we get out of it? Oh i imagine that UPS came to the table with some ridiculous demands. I even imagine that they probably came to the table demanding a tiered wage on drivers. But, imo, we gave up way to much for a company making this kind of money.
which takes us to a strike. Different day and age. A large majority of the public would not have rallied around us this time. We would have lost customers But without the ability to make a convincing threat of a strike, what leverage do we actually have?
In many ways, due to todays political climate unions period are in a tough spot for negotiations. Old was right. We need someone with fire in his belly (cough cough like you BUG). I was seriously hoping O'brian was going to run for top office...
Last note before i end the rambling that alone will probably get me crucified. The intimidation
my 236 cents.
Don't forget that it "mirrors" the company plan.
I'm more interested in what the 80% (or more) that didn't vote was thinking and why they didn't care enough to voice their thoughts.
Pathetic.
Where is your faith? Just becsuse we've been lied to before is no reason to lose faith.
oldupsman
Well-Known Member
And that has been my point the whole time. Yes our wages and benefits are better than most. Yes our health care is better than most.
But why shouldn't it be. UPS is making more money than most. But yet they want us to pay more for health care. They want to
increase the progression and most likely go to a two tier wage program. Why? UPS is making billions. Why give in on anything.
Heck, I shouldn't even care anymore. I"ll be 65 next year and on my own anyway. But it just drives me nuts to see what is
happening to these young people
BigUnionGuy
Got the T-Shirt
That's very humbling.... for you, to compare me to your Grandfather.
I can only hope, to fulfill his shoes.
And encourage others.
In this political climate, it's hard.... to even gauge who the "players" are.
(and what their true motivations are)
-Bug-
You remind me of the guy that gets pissed cuz he has to wait for a text to send while in a low cell area knowing full well it need to travel to space and back. IT NEEDS TO GO TO SPACE. GIVE IT A SECOND. CAN YOU JUST GIVE IT A SECOND?!
My motivation is only to preserve the teamsters. For me, my coworkers and the unborn. I see no other way than the promotion of Ken and Sean. They are the future.
Bubblehead
My Senior Picture
Says the guy quoting my April 22nd post?You remind me of the guy that gets
Can you hear me now???
UniteandWin
Well-Known Member
What happened to the Ups strike picture, that was a stroll down memory lane
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Sent using BrownCafe App
Who knows. They are touchy on this site.
BigUnionGuy
Got the T-Shirt
H2O
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
People tend to get touchy when you cross the line with them.
Whatever. It's an Internet forum. If you don't have thick skin or can't take it maybe you should just deal with people face to face.
Bubblehead
My Senior Picture
When did you adopt that mantra?