Time to go

[TheFigurehead]

​I wholeheartedly agree (other than the "useless old men" part).

I didn't mean to infer that all "old men" were useless, just the type (rich, sheltered, and out of touch with anything and everything save profiting at all costs) who end up CEO's of large companies.

 

[Bagels]

I am so tired of this line of reasoning. It's patently false. If executive pay were capped, sure, maybe we'd lose the overpaid underwhelming crop of useless old men that are currently installed by their corporate corny friends for obscene salaries... but do you really think there aren't thousands of young, smart, hungry business people willing to do it for less? Who aren't stuck in 1971? Who might have fresh ideas? All paying these guys as much as we do accomplishes is to ensure that the old blood continues to stick around for decades beyond their relevancy.<snip>

I don't disagree that the "Old White Men's" club exists, and that they get to decide who joins and who doesn't. More than 80% of all executive management types in this country were members of a fraternity/sorority in college. And if you didn't graduate from Harvard, UCLA, Penn State (maybe your odds would be higher if Sandusky touched you!), etc. then your odds of joining aren't that great. But the stereotype doesn't extend to Scott Davis (like the guy or not).

But what do you think would happen if UPS were to hire young, cheap executive talent that went on to lead the company to record performances? Undoubtedly, they'd field offers from other companies -- at market rate -- and few would turn them down. Survey after survey among business students (especially those attending top-rated schools) shows that the golden handshake is the dream of most. Companies with revolving managerial doors are never successful, because it takes a unified visionary for long-term success. BTW, Scott Davis could be considered cheap young talent. And he's certainly stayed at UPS below market rate. Gotta wonder how many opportunities he's turned down in recent years.

(And FWIW, the science driving most modern businesses, including UPS, is increasingly strong implementation of cost accounting. Wall Street loves to see certain metrics, and as UPS is publicly traded, it has to manage itself somewhat for Wall Street. Like cost accounting or not, its success has been proven; in fact, most attribute the lack of understand of cost accounting as among the primary reasons small businesses fail.)

 

[The Milkman]

I don't disagree that the "Old White Men's" club exists, and that they get to decide who joins and who doesn't. More than 80% of all executive management types in this country were members of a fraternity/sorority in college. And if you didn't graduate from Harvard, UCLA, Penn State (maybe your odds would be higher if Sandusky touched you!), etc. then your odds of joining aren't that great. But the stereotype doesn't extend to Scott Davis (like the guy or not).

But what do you think would happen if UPS were to hire young, cheap executive talent that went on to lead the company to record performances? Undoubtedly, they'd field offers from other companies -- at market rate -- and few would turn them down. Survey after survey among business students (especially those attending top-rated schools) shows that the golden handshake is the dream of most. Companies with revolving managerial doors are never successful, because it takes a unified visionary for long-term success. BTW, Scott Davis could be considered cheap young talent. And he's certainly stayed at UPS below market rate. Gotta wonder how many opportunities he's turned down in recent years.

(And FWIW, the science driving most modern businesses, including UPS, is increasingly strong implementation of cost accounting. Wall Street loves to see certain metrics, and as UPS is publicly traded, it has to manage itself somewhat for Wall Street. Like cost accounting or not, its success has been proven; in fact, most attribute the lack of understand of cost accounting as among the primary reasons small businesses fail.)

For a minute I thought I was reading a post from Hoaxster...................

 

[Catatonic]

For a minute I thought I was reading a post from Hoaxster...................

​Get real, too fricking long!

 

[Bagels]

​Get real, too fricking long!

You join "Dumb Truck Drivers of America," too?

[In regards to the length of Bagels' posts]...try to keep it undetermined a few paragraphs....dumb truck drivers loose focus easily...thks

 

[Socrates]

But what do you think would happen if UPS were to hire young, cheap executive talent that went on to lead the company to record performances? Undoubtedly, they'd field offers from other companies -- at market rate -- and few would turn them down.

Bro, you've been killing it in this thread, but I have to stop you here. Don't you know that those young executives sign 30-year contracts to be Executives? That's right - even after all that success, they couldn't leave the company even if they wanted to.


Seriously though, this thread is rather incredible. On the one hand, once I punch in, you guys are my bros. But once I punch out, like.....really? Don't tell me you believe this tripe you're spitting back out. Tell me you guys aren't out there telling Wal-Mart workers to strike strike strike, then you drive home in your $30K car to your $500K house and sleep in your $2K bed, etc. (And in this instance, it's probably worse to be a hypocrite than to be a horrible financial manager.)

I've seen it said that people feel they're "worth every penny they make" - Really? And what do you think these CEO's making $10 million/year think? Have you ever known a co-worker, in your lifetime, to go to the Boss and ask for a pay decrease (while having the same work/duties)? Or offer to give back a percentage of their check because they didn't work hard enough? Of course not. Everyone always feels they're either underpaid or paid about what they deserve--including CEOs of $80 billion companies, like ours.

As far as UPS drivers, specifically--it's not about what you feel you're worth, it's about what you can prove. And if you can't go jump to another company and immediately make $90k/year to start, then guess what? You aren't worth $90k. You shouldn't just be thanking your lucky stars to get paid what you do - you should be building an anatomically-correct, anthropomorphic statue dedicated to UPS, and spend at least 5 minutes a day fellating it.

And on that note, ta-ta. Killer job BTW Bagels.

 

[oldngray]

Bro, you've been killing it in this thread, but I have to stop you here. Don't you know that those young executives sign 30-year contracts to be Executives? That's right - even after all that success, they couldn't leave the company even if they wanted to.


Seriously though, this thread is rather incredible. On the one hand, once I punch in, you guys are my bros. But once I punch out, like.....really? Don't tell me you believe this tripe you're spitting back out. Tell me you guys aren't out there telling Wal-Mart workers to strike strike strike, then you drive home in your $30K car to your $500K house and sleep in your $2K bed, etc. (And in this instance, it's probably worse to be a hypocrite than to be a horrible financial manager.)

I've seen it said that people feel they're "worth every penny they make" - Really? And what do you think these CEO's making $10 million/year think? Have you ever known a co-worker, in your lifetime, to go to the Boss and ask for a pay decrease (while having the same work/duties)? Or offer to give back a percentage of their check because they didn't work hard enough? Of course not. Everyone always feels they're either underpaid or paid about what they deserve--including CEOs of $80 billion companies, like ours.

As far as UPS drivers, specifically--it's not about what you feel you're worth, it's about what you can prove. And if you can't go jump to another company and immediately make $90k/year to start, then guess what? You aren't worth $90k. You shouldn't just be thanking your lucky stars to get paid what you do - you should be building an anatomically-correct, anthropomorphic statue dedicated to UPS, and spend at least 5 minutes a day fellating it.

And on that note, ta-ta. Killer job BTW Bagels.

Apples and oranges. There are no comparable jobs to what UPS drivers do elsewhere. No other company tries to squeeze every ounce of effort from workers every day like UPS does. If the UPS drivers went to work at another company it might be for less pay or benefits but there would also be a much slower work pace at the other job so you might get paid less for doing less work.

 

[Bagels]

Apples and oranges. There are no comparable jobs to what UPS drivers do elsewhere. No other company tries to squeeze every ounce of effort from workers every day like UPS does. If the UPS drivers went to work at another company it might be for less pay or benefits but there would also be a much slower work pace at the other job so you might get paid less for doing less work.

Bull spit. You obviously been tied to the UPS ecosystem for many years, and cannot relate to current job market conditions.

​Welcome to 2013, though.

 

[oldngray]

Bull spit. You obviously been tied to the UPS ecosystem for many years, and cannot relate to current job market conditions.

​Welcome to 2013, though.

Nope. You live in the world of hub only UPS employees. I have seen the real world and what its like at other companies.

 

[Bagels]

Nope. You live in the world of hub only UPS employees. I have seen the real world and what its like at other companies.

I've worked oodles of jobs; the USA is the world's most productive workforce, and the high standards implemented on employees is often attributed to our high divorce, depression and suicide rates.

Like I said, you can't relate to the outside world you don't live in. To suggest that UPS is the only company pushing for every once of productivity from its workforce is bull spit.

 

[Buck Fifty]

When are we gonna get there ?

 

[anonymous6]

I feel the "Peter Principle" was created with Mr. Davis in mind. ( just google it )

 

[pretender]

The person stirring the pot is you, not me. If you disagree with an assertion I've made, I welcome you to provide a rebuttal, instead of launching personal attacks against me. Weren't you taught as a youngster to "attack the argument, not the person?" Generally, when people are unable to do the former, they choose the latter.

So that explains your passive-aggressive insults...

 

[pretender]

So I guess they lied about what we were told we would get upon retirement? And when I retired I knew that at age 65 I would no longer have them..I knew that also, never expected lifetime benefits. How would you feel if someone double crossed you? Have you ever had someone go back on their word to you? I was well paid while a driver, yes we made good money, yes I helped make this company into the Global Giant it is today, yes I endured tons of crap daily like we all did, only to have my efforts for over 25 yrs to help this company Grow..... Then to have my benefit pkg whittled Down.. Yeah....that's fair... I guess they could not wait for me to turn 65?

You just don't get it--As drivers, we were overpaid for doing menial work, and we sold the part timers out. We don't deserve to retain our low cost benefits in retirement.

 

[The Milkman]

You just don't get it--As drivers, we were overpaid for doing menial work, and we sold the part timers out. We don't deserve to retain our low cost benefits in retirement.

I am sure Bagel Boy would agree with you

 

[Bagels]

So that explains your passive-aggressive insults...

Please demonstrate a passive-aggressive insult I've originated unsolicitedly, sans our trolling friends.

Seriously, you're an emblem of the type of co-worker I dispose: instigate, instigate, instigate ... then whine, cry & complain when something's said back.

Good luck in your retirement. A nearby co-worker was listening to Rush Limbaugh the other day, and there was this whole discussion on why employees feel entitled to retiree benefits, as it made no sense for companies to spend money on employees who were no longer productive for it. He inspired me -- present me a contract that eliminated retiree benefits, I'm all for it.

 

[The Milkman]

Please demonstrate a passive-aggressive insult I've originated unsolicitedly, sans our trolling friends.

Seriously, you're an emblem of the type of co-worker I dispose: instigate, instigate, instigate ... then whine, cry & complain when something's said back.

Good luck in your retirement. A nearby co-worker was listening to Rush Limbaugh the other day, and there was this whole discussion on why employees feel entitled to retiree benefits, as it made no sense for companies to spend money on employees who were no longer productive for it. He inspired me -- present me a contract that eliminated retiree benefits, I'm all for it.

We feel entitled because when we started our careers at UPS and were told what our benfits were at the time of being hired, then being told 25 yrs or so later what your retirement benefits will be, only to have them changed Stinks

 

[Bagels]

We feel entitled because when we started our careers at UPS and were told what our benfits were at the time of being hired, then being told 25 yrs or so later what your retirement benefits will be, only to have them changed Stinks

Bull. Nobody guaranteed you no-cost retirement benefits, although that may have been what it was at the time. I guess you're pretender this...

 

[Catatonic]

Bull. Nobody guaranteed you no-cost retirement benefits, although that may have been what it was at the time. I guess you're pretender this...

Actually up to the end of the 80's this was the case... of course, not in writing.
By the time 2000 got here, it was a hope and a prayer.
UPS and everyone else were warning it could not last by then.
​And here we are today.

 

[Bagels]

Actually up to the end of the 80's this was the case... of course, not in writing.
By the time 2000 got here, it was a hope and a prayer.
UPS and everyone else were warning it could not last by then.
​And here we are today.

The idea of paying for health insurance, for any job, was inconceivable for most into the 1980s. But I guess my thought process was that no company, including UPS, would ever make a finite guarantee/promise of no-cost retirement insurance, since I'm certain most exec management types knew status quo could possibly change. Especially given most (in the 1980s) were instrumental in changing status quo.

That said, I should pursue a career of a feeder driver. When our local sort was flagged as twilight and operated as a small hub, the unwritten rule was that you never, EVER bothered the feeders playing Yoker (for nearly $40-something/hour OT at the time) when their loads were built. They would pull when they were ready, and not one second before (their Yoker game was over)....

3- It's the Hard-Knock Life- Annie- Original Broadway Cast - YouTube