Discussion in 'The Archives' started by hitthebigone, Jun 28, 2003.

  1. hitthebigone

    hitthebigone Guest

    Famous White Collar Crime Investigators have scandal info! Including Arianna Huffington.
    Lets have our 4 for 1 shares! Nobody has to be prosecuted and thrown in jail!
  2. retired1

    retired1 Guest

    Look my friend, there was nothing criminal about the OPL situation...

    Maybe you haven't heard, the IRS ruling was overturned and UPS exonerated. Unfortunately that was after ramifications of the situation had already destroyed the investment value of OPL. Why don't I hear you making threatening statements about going after the IRS for destroying your OPL investment? Could it be that you have another agenda? [​IMG]
  3. tieguy

    tieguy Guest

    I'd join that lawsuit against the IRS. They clearly abused thier power in destroying a legitimate business venture.
  4. hitthebigone

    hitthebigone Guest

    Oh so now I can count on having a turn with big dividends myself now. Big share price increases would go along with it too! Now it should be back to business as it was! What do you mean they are not going to go back to the old way of running the parcel reinsurance? They were exonerated weren't they?
    What about the OPL ANR insider scam?
  5. tieguy

    tieguy Guest

    what scam. What does anr stand for? What is your agenda in posting this on so many message boards?
  6. hitthebigone

    hitthebigone Guest

    Tie Guy, My intentions is to inform as many people as possible (UPS's shareholders, OPL shareholders, ANR shareholders) as to the fact that a huge rip off of UPS employees has occured. Further that responsible people who hold themselves to be "white collar crime experts" must all be informed as to how these insiders at UPS used their possitions to size up a huge con sting through publicly traded Annunity and Life Re. symbol ANR. Rather than take it from me please do call OPL and ask them what they have done to get our money back from ANR. Also ask wether or not OPL has ever had any of their officers also act as an officer of ANR. If you are an OPL shareholder you were sent a letter informing you that OPL was buying a 7 percent stake in ANR, a publicly traded company (at the time symbol was ALRE). How many UPSer's do you think followed OPL lead and purchased ANR shares for their own portfolios? These con artists sized up their marks well, knowing that an OPL shareholder was a UPS shareholder who had just realized a nice 4-5 times gain on the UPS stock. You might ask where are the Larry ***** or Mary ********* headed now? On to another scam?
  7. tieguy

    tieguy Guest

    I don't understand how it can be a scam that ripped me off when I will still gain a nice return on this investment at the projected liquidation rate of 10 dollars a share. I just wish I'd been in the plan when this stock started out at a nickle a share.
  8. traveler

    traveler Guest

    Just a small correction... the stock started at a quarter a share and was given as a dividend (taxable of course). I was there.
  9. ups_vette

    ups_vette Guest

    From your post, YOU must have been one of the UPSers who purchased ANR stock. I was unaware UPS FORCED you, and countless others, to purchase ANR. Perhaps if you had a mind of your own and thought for yourself, you wouldn't have purchased this stock, but it's very evident that you don't.

    People like you who have the "Devil made me do it" attitude, and refuse to take responsibility for their actions, deserve what those actions bring. I just purchased some stock in Enron and it would be wise of you to add this stock to your portfolio also.

    If by some chance this investment doesn't work out, you can then blame me for its' failure. This seems to be your way of rejecting personal responsibility for your actions.
  10. hitthebigone

    hitthebigone Guest

    Lets asume that you are an officer of your fictious "Enron". You are then appointed to be an officer of "xyz" company. You use your enfluance at your "Enron" to invest in your "xyz" company. You then post inacurate if not fraudulent financial statements at your publicly traded "xyz". Investors reley on these documents a great deal more that your word at your "Enron". The parent company of your "Enron" does nothing to stop you from spliting with the cash. Is Fraud resonable shareholder risk? Should somebody done something to stop you? Did an investment simply "not work out"? UPS wronged its Employees with the forced closing of the Thrift Plan. UPS knew it was forcing the sale on its employees of a company, that come to find out had already been told to stop by the IRS. UPS knew it had officers at OPL that were also officers at ANR. The officers misstated the financials. What check and blances system did UPS have in place to prevent this scam? Are all UPS management afforded the same opportunity to abuse their leadership?
  11. hitthebigone

    hitthebigone Guest

    And now in gods name if OPL has "won" its case, are we not back to business as usual at OPL?
    Couldn't that be a way of repenting...rather rewarding hourly employees for their patience?
  12. michael

    michael Guest

    I am happy to see that I am not the only one that is displeased at the way OPL was handled. As I have said before, there is more than enough blame to spread around to officers (present & past) of the company.

    hitthebigone: You bring up some valid points and some interesting questions; ones that many of us have been asking for a long time and never got answers to.

    tieguy: I spent many years in management and like the yearly UPS stock incentive; the OPL stock became a part of your compensation. I was there when it started at 25 a share and was awarded those shares. In my opinion, those shares were EARNED, not GIVEN.
    Unless I am mistaken, the first shares were awarded in 1984. It would be interesting to see where an investment made at that time, in a conservative company, would be right now. Also, dont forget, 25 is where the shares started; they went up from there. So, if you consider that you MAY get $10.00 a share; in 1991 the shares were $5.41 a share, your investment would not even have doubled in a time when (I am speaking now of the boom in stock prices in general) most stock prices were going through the roof.

    I dont know about you, but when I make an investment I want it to grow. When that doesnt happen over a reasonable amount of time that I have already predetermined, I make a change. With OPL, we were limited to how much and when we could make that change.

    ups vette; In defense of hitthebigone we were all looking at a company that we thought was on the way to being a great investment (based on what we were told and the way the stock price was steadily going up) I personally did not buy any ANR stock, but I can understand how others that were in a position to be able to buy it would have thought that it would be a good investment.
  13. jackvette

    jackvette Guest

    While I understand that nobody wants to see an investment lose money, I just don't understand this blame UPS stance.

    Its true that UPS "forced" people to buy OPL in order to get UPS stock. UPS however never forced anyone to keep their OPL stock immediately after the purchase.

    From the records I could find, if someone bought UPS (and OPL) stock on the very last day that was possible, there was a full three weeks before OPL started restricting sales.

    If someone has contradictory facts please post them.

  14. hitthebigone

    hitthebigone Guest

    The notion that we hourly (or mgtmt purchases above about 14 bucks) were afforded the opportunity to sell our OPL shares immediately after we bought that what you are saying? THERE WAS NO REPORTING TO INFORM ANYONE THAT OPL WAS ON ITS WAY OUT WHEN WE WERE REQUIRED TO BUY OPL! Because there was no info to the contrary regarding OPL's change of operations it was in fact, led on to the purchaser that past numbers were indictive of future yes even if you were given (which you were not) to sell all of your OPL investment the pros would have said your crazy! Only the crooks knew the complete story!
    Thanks for your understanding. My nearly three decades with UPS has been appriciated but will I turn my head to this huge scam? There are those of us obsessed with getting the info out and seeing justice served and there are those...
  15. tieguy

    tieguy Guest

    "The notion that we hourly (or mgtmt purchases above about 14 bucks) were afforded the opportunity to sell our OPL shares immediately after we bought that what you are saying? THERE WAS NO REPORTING TO INFORM ANYONE THAT OPL WAS ON ITS WAY OUT WHEN WE WERE REQUIRED TO BUY OPL!"

    I think your missing the point. You make the point that you were forced to buy OPL when I suppose you preferred to buy only UPS common stock. If so there was no one forcing you to hold onto the OPL once purchased you could have turned right around and sold it. At the time you knew you were buying you also knew that the IRS was pressing a case against us. At this point you have to make a decision as to whether you would hold or sell the OPL ( hmmm that ryhmes) You chose to hold onto the stock. You had enough information to make a decision to sell. If you invest in the stock market you take this type of risk every day. Rarely will you have any more information available to make your decision then you had here. I knew about the IRS case I chose to hold onto the stock.
  16. ups_vette

    ups_vette Guest

    Exactly what fraudulent or inacurate statements are you referng to? Can you document your claims? If so, please post your documentation of wrong doing. If you can't, then we all will know your obsession with OPL and ANR is just a figment of your imagination and a failure of you to take responsibility for the decisions you make.
  17. jackvette

    jackvette Guest

    You've just got me so confused...

    I thought your concern was that you were forced to buy OPL. When I pointed out that you could have sold, you say that you held onto it because it had great past earnings.

    That's exactly what everyone else did.

    So you must believe that UPS knew in advance what the judges ruling was going to be? The court case was not a secret. We just thought we would win (which we eventually did).

    So if "the crooks" knew the whole story, the courts must be crooked too since they must have leaked the outcome?

  18. hitthebigone

    hitthebigone Guest

    My understanding is that there was a three judge panel selected in Florida that most recently ruled on OPL. Many watching were at least curious as to how UPS manage that "break". But courts crooked? I guess you dyed in the wool believers in all that UPS does is rightous might call it sucessful lobbying!
  19. afups

    afups Guest


    see this site from Emory Law School

    This is old stuff. I cannot find anything relating to your last post.

    If you have something, please give us facts and sources so we may check them out.

    I think your barking up the wrong tree.
  20. hitthebigone

    hitthebigone Guest

    afups: Nice link for anyone to read. It looks as though the Eleventh Circuits Opinion was the three member afair...hhhuummm.
    For now I will leave you with this situation: A driver at our hub did a driver release stop that a claim was filed on (5000 bucks). The consignee claimed non-reciept. The center manager told the driver he would not be disiplined if he paid the company back. He was garnished for ever and a day. Do you think UPS collected the 5000 buck claim from OPL? The Employee only? Perhaps both? Do you think it would be fraud for them to have collected from both? There is so much crooked <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> behind OPL and ANR we can all only hope that enough people cause enough attention that even the bought offs can't be bought off!