US national debt

[klein]

OK, I read this 3 times and only have one thing to say HUH?

Why are you wasting your time? klein wrote it...nuff said

In 2003 there were less people on retirement (SS), in 2003 the level of unemployment was lower.
In 2003 medicare costs were half as much as today.

Surely, you don't get it.

Maybe this way: In 2003 UPS drivers were earning $25 per hr, now $30 per hr. Is there a cost difference ? Get it now ?

 

[moreluck]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/07/28/potential-debt-limit-plan-c-emerges-democrats-say/

 

[av8torntn]

I read your original statement and your explanation and I honestly am not sure what you are saying. Maybe you think that working for UPS is working for the government? I still do not see what any of that has to do with trimming the size of government back to the level it was in 2003. I'd go much farther if it were me. I'd like to see the 2000 level as the baseline for cuts and we'd be able to eliminate income taxes.

 

[wkmac]

I agree with all of that. I would also add that in my opinion the governments constant push for inflation has done more to destroy the middle class than any other single thing.

Absolutely but it's also a major factor in poverty as the poor try and work up the ladder and inflation only lengthens the steps as time goes by. With no inflation, hardwork makes savings stronger in a storehouse of value and encourages more work to achieve a greater end towards wealth. The natural savings rate goes up because savings is actually rewarded and not chopped off at the legs either by inflation or interest rate manipulation.

I find it funny the people who claim to defend the poor against the rich never realize how the intervention of the state in the economy coupled with fiat currency and inflation actually tilts the economy towards an oligarchy and actually defends that system by calling for a even stronger statist system. De-coupling the state from privileged capitalism eg crony capitalism and opening up the vastly broad free market where even capital itself is created locally and not centrally controlled at the top, yes I mean locally created currency too, breaks the capital monopoly cartel and opens up the dynamics of a strong middle class and an economy where even labor itself sits as an equal to capital and land as the 3 factors of production. When any one factor becomes tilted, especially by state intervention, the laws of economics become twisted and the unintended consequences flood out everywhere with the after effects of mis-allocation of wealth resources. The resources are stripped out of the local economies by the central planning models and shifted to gov't partners leaving mainstreet to fight itself over what little resource happens to remain. Make matters worse is taking these resources abroad to build greater wealth generators for the oligarches and their familiars while holding positions of power and throwing what amounts to crumbs from the table to the masses under the illusion of some public good.

Everything is so twisted now we can't even see how the gov't works against us in the credit market.

This is all boiling down too, Why We Fight!

Expect Us!

 

[moreluck]

 

[Babagounj]

[h=1]Apple Now Has More Cash Than The U.S. Government[/h]

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/appl...d-than-the-us-government-2011-7#ixzz1TVFIWZQ0
​

 

[wkmac]

[h=1]Apple Now Has More Cash Than The U.S. Government[/h]

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/appl...d-than-the-us-government-2011-7#ixzz1TVFIWZQ0
​

From the article:

That's because Apple collects more money than it spends, while the U.S. government does not.

Let's also make note, Apple, although enjoying certain gov't privileges, does collect it's money in a voluntary manner of providing a product that people can purchase or not. In most respects, Apple's money came to them via this voluntary mechanism of the marketplace.

In the case of gov't, voluntary actions are not allowed or tolerated. All funds at the end of the day are obtained not by voluntary market actions but by the point of a gun and under ultimate threat of death. In an honest society, the armed robber would be held in greater esteem because at least the armed robber makes no pretense about what he is to his victim and his victim does all they can to avoid him. This relationship is expected and in some sense respected but both parties are free to work them the best they can with all risks understood. Even in this relationship the state attempts to intervene to it's own self interests thus causing an imbalance which results in mis-allocations and the advantage of the market becomes tilted and bad results tend to prosper. Left alone, the ratio of risk to reward of robber to victim may balance and you likely would have less robbing.

Once gov't involves itself and builds a bureaucracy to address this intervention, like any other business model, growth and repeat customers become a necessary action in order for advancement and growth in career opportunities. Also you need a justification to continue the infrastructure investment of tax payer dollars as well as to grow the belief that self serving gov't is necessary to life itself. You don't think the explosion of criminal justice graduates and lawyers will lead to less laws and smaller gov't do you?

Also, in the case of gov't, it's victims actually seek out their assailant in the hopes of either salvation or special privilege. Typically they find neither but are deluded to think they have.

 

[moreluck]

All of this intense negotiations and the Messiah decides to issue new mileage standards for 2020!!!!!!!..................he's detached from reality !!

 

[moreluck]

House bill has passed 218-210.

 

[moreluck]

Now the Democrats can be dead-set against it........of course, because it has a balanced budget amendment in it. I think the people should know that Reid and the democrats are against a balanced budget......it would cramp their spending style.

Reid says it'll be dead in the water........why not let a vote occur? Maybe some moderate democrats might vote yes.

 

[moreluck]

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

All of this intense negotiations and the Messiah decides to issue new mileage standards for 2020!!!!!!!..................he's detached from reality !!

Actually this is a huge deal--54.5 mpg average by the year 2025.

http://autos.aol.com/article/new-federal-mpg-standard/

 

[moreluck]

Let's see, disaster next Tuesday....or better mileage from cars in 2025.......................not even close!!

 

[bbsam]

All of this intense negotiations and the Messiah decides to issue new mileage standards for 2020!!!!!!!..................he's detached from reality !!

Boehner walked out of talks with Obama. Not like he was busy negotiating or anything.

 

[moreluck]

Boehner walked out of talks with Obama. Not like he was busy negotiating or anything.

Obama got greedy and changed the agreed upon terms......reneged !!!! I'd walk out too.

How about all those WI Dems. that left town......huh?

 

[bbsam]

Obama got greedy and changed the agreed upon terms......reneged !!!! I'd walk out too.

How about all those WI Dems. that left town......huh?

Whatever the situation, Obama wasn't in the negotiations so why not do the mileage thing?

 

[moreluck]

Whatever the situation, Obama wasn't in the negotiations so why not do the mileage thing?

Then why not play a round too?

You notice everything he does is occurring after he'll be gone?

 

[bbsam]

Not uncommon.

 

[DS]

Special More, then why couldn't Bush II record any surpluses and ran over $1 Trillion in deficit per year ?

I don't care, if the debt ceiling doesn't get raised, would probably mean a big boom for us, as the Canadian dollar will rise close to 1:2 via the US, and Oil will double in price, making us the big bucks !

Unlike Klein,I feel bad about this.Being that you are our biggest trading partner, the big bucks" will still be made by the same chosen few.
I have no idea how your voting system works,but if Americans get to vote at all,how could it come to this?
Can you impeach all of 'em? Start over with people that love America more than money?
If anything,what do you think our government could do to help?

 

[moreluck]

Like it or not, we're stuck 'til the next election ......unless Obama does something dreadful like murder someone, then I think we could get rid of him.

Thanks for offering help. Both Republicans & Democrats alike will appreciate that.

No need to feel bad........we roll with the punches and it'll all straighten out.