Wake Up America

CTOTH

Not retired, just tired
The White House Warden - Los Angeles Times

Read this op-ed but stop thinking so one-dimensional and consider future Presidents and how they might vastly abuse this power in order to protect their own. Remember this one very important fact of history, Hilter was elected to office in a completely democratic process.
This is interesting because all the Bush followers out there are willing to toss our 1st and fourth amendments to the wind for security's sake. What happen's when a democrat is elected and tosses your precious 2nd amendment in the same manner, because the current administration made laws to allow this? Uh-oh, now we have a problem.

Every single amendment in the constitution is essential to our freedom and they are based upon the principles for which this coutry was founded. For the government to infringe upon any one of these is wrong and it's our job as citizens to stand up against it.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
Interesting op-ed that few dare even consider. The most important point of all IMO from this piece is that a society from which many great and wonderful contributors to the civilization of mankind can also through an elective process give us a system that is one of mankind's most evil!

Folks, we are human too and not beyond this ourselves if we sit back and allow ourselves to be manipulated into it!

Welcome to Fascist America! by Gene Callahan
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
Mac,

Earlier in this thread you quoted from Eisenhower's exit speech at the end of his second term, I don't know if you caught the op-ed from Michael Hirsh.

In addition there was an interesting documentary released earlier this year called Why We Fight that takes a close look at the current relationship between our government and the arms industry in light of the warning that Ike gave in that speech about the rise of the military industrial complex.
 

Overpaid Union Thug

Well-Known Member
"If these 'liberals' are anything like me then they aren't blaming our gov't for the attacks but rather the incompetency that surrounds the retaliation.
$400 billion, you'd think that kind of sum would fund something a little more strategic."

Umm...that is my point. We CAN'T fund something a little more strategic because in order to strike a precise and deadly blow we would actually have to pump out a great deal more force and fire power and that would result in more collateral damage and that would bring out the so called "civil liberty" freaks such as the ACLU. Anything less than that brings less results and the effort just drags on and costs us $$millions$. OH WAIT!.....That is what is happening now!

"The way I see it, why not put a $1bil bounty out on Osama's head and name a few others at the same time for effect and save yourself $399bil and numerous American lives!

Damn, that's to freakin' easy!"

Where have you been?!?!? There has been a bounty on ALL the major terrorist leaders' heads for years!


"Every single amendment in the constitution is essential to our freedom and they are based upon the principles for which this coutry was founded. For the government to infringe upon any one of these is wrong and it's our job as citizens to stand up against it"

When are you people going to learn that you are not losing any civil libertys! The phone tapping for example: The govt. is listening to phone calls placed to known and suspected terrorists and listening in on calls comming in to the country from them as well. They don't have a team of chronies sitting in a basement at the NSA listenining and waiting for someone to bad mouth Bush so they can come arrest you. They aren't contacting the local authorities if someone mentions a typical, everyday, petty crime. In fact, the people are complaining have probably never been phone tapped. Unless of course they make a call to a terrorist or recieve one. It is not a very hard concept to understand. And anything else, such as additional security at the airport, is nothing but a small inconvience. If that. Those people that have been jailed or questioned and later let go and cleared of charges of terrorist activity may or may not be frustrated but OH FREAKIN WELL! Imagine what would happen if the govt. just ignored all leads. You guys would be singing a different tune.
 

CTOTH

Not retired, just tired
When are you people going to learn that you are not losing any civil libertys! The phone tapping for example: The govt. is listening to phone calls placed to known and suspected terrorists and listening in on calls comming in to the country from them as well. They don't have a team of chronies sitting in a basement at the NSA listenining and waiting for someone to bad mouth Bush so they can come arrest you. They aren't contacting the local authorities if someone mentions a typical, everyday, petty crime. In fact, the people are complaining have probably never been phone tapped. Unless of course they make a call to a terrorist or recieve one. It is not a very hard concept to understand. And anything else, such as additional security at the airport, is nothing but a small inconvience. If that. Those people that have been jailed or questioned and later let go and cleared of charges of terrorist activity may or may not be frustrated but OH FREAKIN WELL! Imagine what would happen if the govt. just ignored all leads. You guys would be singing a different tune.

The warrantless phone tapping was ruled unconstitutional by the supreme court a month or more ago.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
Mac,

Earlier in this thread you quoted from Eisenhower's exit speech at the end of his second term, I don't know if you caught the op-ed from Michael Hirsh.

In addition there was an interesting documentary released earlier this year called Why We Fight that takes a close look at the current relationship between our government and the arms industry in light of the warning that Ike gave in that speech about the rise of the military industrial complex.

Thanks Jones as I had seen neither. When's the movie come out? I'm not much of a movie person as not much out of Hollywood is of real interest, even on TV I'm more likely tuned into the History Channel to anything else as regular TV programming I just find insulting to be quite honest. I won't give in to being driven to be that mindless as TV would wish for me to be!

I can see this movie is a must see and worth thought and consideration. One area I also enjoy is via the Frontline website and it's many internet video feeds of it's past programs on a variety of subjects. On Oct. 10th there is a new one coming out entitled "The Enemy Within" which discusses the threat internally of the threat from Al Queda, etc. Will be interesting to see what they bring to the table on this issue.

FRONTLINE: coming soon: the enemy within | PBS

A number of other programs worth watching on a variety of subjects can be found at:

FRONTLINE: watch online | PBS
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
Mac,

The movie was actually released on DVD back in June, it's a fairly small market documentary so it was easy to miss in theatres and wasn't there for very long anyway. It's available on http://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Fight-...f=pd_bbs_1/002-8444512-3675251?ie=UTF8&s=dvd], or you can rent it from http://www.netflix.com. You might be able to find it at Blockbuster.

I'm with ya on the history channel, there's always something good on :thumbup1:. PBS is one of the last bastions of quality programming, the networks are pretty much of a joke.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
Jones,
I'll be sure and check that out.

You know, of recent there has been a lot of talk about the rapid reduction in gas prices and the allegation that the Bush organization is behind the scenes manipulating gas prices in exchange for a positive vote effect in Nov. Personally I thought this was BS because of several factors:

1) Storm damaged oil rigs/ refineries all back on line a year later giving us the capacity we need.
2) Summer driving season over thus much lower demand
3) Vast new oil field find in the Gulf of Mexico
4) Fears of super hurricanes this season never materialized, in fact only 1 storm hit the US proper and for Florida it was a walk in the park kinda storm
5) Going into the cooler months allowed a change to lower cost un-formulated gas that is needed in the summer months to combat smog
6) When the gas prices zoomed up and held leaving many people to think this was a permanent deal, the consuming public that were buying cars bought very fuel efficent models thus rotating poor mileage vehicles out and even UPS has done so with one figure I heard that nearly 5000 vehicles will see rotation in exchange for more fuel efficent package cars.

Just these 6 reasons among others that I failed to mention in my mind was the reason and I'm still with that but I am scratching my chin and thinking over some allegations I've heard concerning Goldman Sachs. Even the NY Times did a piece a couple of weeks ago on this very thing so at the least this line of thought does have folks thinking and looking.

Here's a piece I found discussing this subject matter and thought I'd throw it out for everyone and to also see what others are thinking on this. I'm not convinced yet that market manipulation is the case but gov't does plan our economics (like any good business you plan and work for highest market and production efficency and so does our gov't) so what we think is voter manipulation may in fact be gov't mechanisms that kick into play no matter what (automatic when certain factors come on line) and the upcoming election was mere coincidence rather than conspiratorial. That's my take anyhow but I also don't trust gov't in any form or fashion so I will keep a guarded eye on the conspiratorial too!
:lol:

Keller Komments: Gasoline Price Manipulation?

Also, for those who doubt the gov't "manages the markets and business atmosphere" in what is best called as a "planned economy", I could take you into a law library and spend weeks going over the Statues-At- Large and now the Federal Register showing you documentation after documentation of just such daily activity by our gov't either via legislation or executive orders and authorizations. The post WW2 Bretton-Woods agreement for example that set the table for global economic planning and direction alone itself would take weeks. It even forced the US gov't to completely reorganized it's economic machinery from top to bottom in the early 1950's with a numer of reorganization plans especially across the Treasury Department. If the Mid-East can be transformed as Europe and parts of Asia was in the late 1940's, look for a modern day version of Bretton-Woods to come about in light of such events.

After the October surprise in 1987' Reagan issue Executive Order 12631 to authorize certain individuals to form a "work group" that would in effect steer gov't and private concerns in a direction of achieving a goal of market controls for a certain outcome that in their minds were beneficial to both public and private sectors. Here's the link to the Ex. Order: NARA - Federal Register - Executive Orders

The majority of people in light of that October 1987' market event would likely see this Ex. Order as a proper role but I happen to believe a free and open market should in effect be self regulating and in light of the Oct. surprise I do believe the real truth was to the overall public that the market is a dangerous place with many wolves. Gov't stepped in because the huge loss of confidence threatened the economic policies of that day and one component of the Reagan economic policy was that by lowering cost, in this case gov't cost in the form of taxation, you end up with with higher returns thus many, many more customers (and you did as 401k and individual stock portfolios exploded and thus the reduction in the Cap Gain tax was more than offset by more persons paying the tax) are in the game and thus paying revenues to the gov't which was the center piece of their economic plan.

In other words, the order was a means to protect the plan and have you take part in an economic process they in effect picked for you and not one that you judged as the very best in a completely free and open competive market. But you don't complain being manipulated as your 401k and stocks went up but then again maybe you weren't someone left holding Enron, or Global Crossing or Lucent or even some other high flying internet stock that went bust over the last several years either. Clinton gets blamed a lot for the Dot Com market bust at the end of his Presidency but was the bust set in place back in March of 1988' or did it even go back to FDR after the events of 1929' and then the economic impact of the 1930's? Clinton did nothing to reverse the "planned society" but he didn't create it either.

Hmmmm! I really wonder. Like other investment vehicles such as stock and commodities, whether for covert gain or overt stewardship of society, the President in the past has in fact manipulated certain aspects of the various markets out there from price supports to the aforementioned Ex. Order. We've even had wage and price controls before too. I guess it is in fact possible and probable that the current President has manipulated gas prices. He has even released strategic reserves back last fall after Katrina to stablize gas prices so just how far would he go or for that fact any President in this day and time go?

They need your tax dollars in order to maintain their power. Now see the connection? They only keep you economically viable in order for you to pay the taxes that keep them in power. Why does a master feed his slave? I know you hate my ass with a passion when I draw these parallels and it is distasteful but we gotta start thinking outside the box before we walk into that voting booth folks.

JMO
 

tonyexpress

Whac-A-Troll Patrol
Staff member
Interesting article...Even though we fight to be different (nasty backhanded campaign ads just for starters) we're more alike than we realize.:cool:

Maybe Hillary and McCain should be on the same ticket..:lol:
 
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