*********** warning letters

[Bubblehead]

No... As I said before, there are other things beside the driver that can cause overallowed.

How is your load? Missorts? How is the trace? Is the dispatch efficient?

If all of these things are good, and the driver has good methods, then yes, the times study is a likely cause.

P-Man

Ah Ha!!!
Now you've hit on it!!!

Problem being now is that some manager, somewhere, has to admit that their operation is full of holes.
What's the likelihood of that???
Slim to none.
It's easier to sluff it off on the "turd" driver.

 

[Coldworld]

New teams rolled out in every district this year. All done with google earth. From what I have gathered, anywhere between 2 and 10 people per district. Hot priority. My center's took literally 5 months to get approved.

P man, have you heard how hard corporate is working to approve the onslaught of studies turned in? I have heard of some center's getting theirs approved in two weeks. What makes some priority over others?



P.S. I have seen the statement here before and I want to assure everyone that it really can happen to you: every study I have heard of being approved (9) has gained the center time (as a whole). I think Sober talked about his and said they made time. Either way, you now have the chance to win the lottery at USP

P.P.S. Just tired, all standards and unit numbers are re-done in the study. They start from scratch.

Have you heard that centers routes are going to be grouped together to what kind of area predominately a center covers. So, if a center has mostly commercial and city residential routes then the time study for the whole center will be more geared towards those areas...not the few extended areas in the center..meaning the extended routes could loose some time...has anyone heard this?
But as you said above, time could be made up, its not going to be much for the driver that is 2 hours over. I mean making up 25 minutes on 2 hours isnt going to do anything for the driver moral or the harassment from mgt side of things. What I would like to know is how doing google earth will put special circumstances into the allowance that a good time study sup on car with you might take in consideration..IE, apt stops, elevators, long hallways, customers having you place boxes in certain areas, handtruck use, and this list could literally go on for days. I dont think that the earth program can figure out being on different floors and some other tricky stuff. Should be interesting!

 

[UPS Lifer]

Ah Ha!!!
Now you've hit on it!!!

Problem being now is that some manager, somewhere, has to admit that their operation is full of holes.
What's the likelihood of that???
Slim to none.
It's easier to sluff it off on the "turd" driver.

A manager who is doing his job should care. I believe in what is fair and right should be fought for. I would not sit back if a driver was being hosed.
Time studies should be up to date. If one is out of balance, it should be put back into alignment and made right for everyone's sake. A fair and just manager will fight for his/her driver if the driver is right.

That being said..

If management is doing their job and not succumbing to the will of the micro-managers then there might be a whole lot of areas to fix besides the TS.

A proper "performance OJS" should be planned out, also previous OJS and area trace reviewed. The supervisor should make sure that the load is not the issue and should be loaded in sequence. I realize that for some if not most drivers, this may be the biggest issue but for purpose of the OJS, it should be taken out of the equation.

I used to make notes of time lost and time gained and review it with the driver prior to the WOR coming out the next day. This was not always possible but my notes were on the actual OJS form and could be reviewed.

If there was a big discrepancy from my notes to the over/under and also all of the performance indicators such as miles, pieces, stops, SPORH etc. then a supervisor could make a determination as to what way to go from there.

I sometimes wonder how well trained these new supervisors as well as young managers are compared to years ago.

I can recall going to mini TS schools to teach us the basics of TS as well as OJS schools which covered all aspects including dealing with difficult drivers vs the avg driver. These things were part of the strategic planning process to improve performance in a district. .... "back in the day"!

Is this something (training) that has become an "Achilles Heal" to UPS? I am interested to hear your thoughts on this.

 

[atatbl]

Have you heard that centers routes are going to be grouped together to what kind of area predominately a center covers. So, if a center has mostly commercial and city residential routes then the time study for the whole center will be more geared towards those areas...not the few extended areas in the center..meaning the extended routes could loose some time...has anyone heard this?
But as you said above, time could be made up, its not going to be much for the driver that is 2 hours over. I mean making up 25 minutes on 2 hours isnt going to do anything for the driver moral or the harassment from mgt side of things. What I would like to know is how doing google earth will put special circumstances into the allowance that a good time study sup on car with you might take in consideration..IE, apt stops, elevators, long hallways, customers having you place boxes in certain areas, handtruck use, and this list could literally go on for days. I dont think that the earth program can figure out being on different floors and some other tricky stuff. Should be interesting!

I can speak from experience to your exact question. My center is 70% business. Very heavy pickups and extremely commercialized. We have a few routes that are very much rural. 60 stops on a few of the routes is a 9.5 day. These routes gained the most time of any.

As far as taking "special circumstances" into account; all I can tell you is that five months of "approval" did not go to waste. Corporate scrutinized the time study enough that I.E. had to bring in a team on six different occasions to ride with drivers to look at a plethora of different things. If you would like specifics I would prefer to do that over PMs with you.

 

[scoobypanda]

"A proper "performance OJS" should be planned out, also previous OJS and area trace reviewed. The supervisor should make sure that the load is not the issue and should be loaded in sequence. I realize that for some if not most drivers, this may be the biggest issue but for purpose of the OJS, it should be taken out of the equation." - ups lifer



Why is this not sabotage? Take poor load quality out of the equation, give driver a perfect sequence load, then hold him to that standard after the o.j.s? How is that fair? You get off car and load goes back to garbage, or maybe you make sure it stays a quality load every day because you are a fair manager, but what happens when you move to another center next year and the new guy claims I'm not maintaining my performance standard? Either fix the preload issues or ignore my performance, you can't have it both ways.

 

[Coldworld]

A manager who is doing his job should care. I believe in what is fair and right should be fought for. I would not sit back if a driver was being hosed.
Time studies should be up to date. If one is out of balance, it should be put back into alignment and made right for everyone's sake. A fair and just manager will fight for his/her driver if the driver is right.

That being said..

If management is doing their job and not succumbing to the will of the micro-managers then there might be a whole lot of areas to fix besides the TS.

A proper "performance OJS" should be planned out, also previous OJS and area trace reviewed. The supervisor should make sure that the load is not the issue and should be loaded in sequence. I realize that for some if not most drivers, this may be the biggest issue but for purpose of the OJS, it should be taken out of the equation.

I used to make notes of time lost and time gained and review it with the driver prior to the WOR coming out the next day. This was not always possible but my notes were on the actual OJS form and could be reviewed.

If there was a big discrepancy from my notes to the over/under and also all of the performance indicators such as miles, pieces, stops, SPORH etc. then a supervisor could make a determination as to what way to go from there.

I sometimes wonder how well trained these new supervisors as well as young managers are compared to years ago.

I can recall going to mini TS schools to teach us the basics of TS as well as OJS schools which covered all aspects including dealing with difficult drivers vs the avg driver. These things were part of the strategic planning process to improve performance in a district. .... "back in the day"!

Is this something (training) that has become an "Achilles Heal" to UPS? I am interested to hear your thoughts on this.

Its all about the micromanagement of this company...ups has to be one of the worst when it comes to this. Nobody can make a decision without fear of being written up...including management. You and p-man seem like fair mgt folks but the ups of now and in the future is going to be a place of horrors. I think the mgt who are close to retirement are just trying to hold on and get the heck out in one piece.

 

[Bubblehead]

A manager who is doing his job should care. I believe in what is fair and right should be fought for. I would not sit back if a driver was being hosed.
Time studies should be up to date. If one is out of balance, it should be put back into alignment and made right for everyone's sake. A fair and just manager will fight for his/her driver if the driver is right.

That being said..

If management is doing their job and not succumbing to the will of the micro-managers then there might be a whole lot of areas to fix besides the TS.

A proper "performance OJS" should be planned out, also previous OJS and area trace reviewed. The supervisor should make sure that the load is not the issue and should be loaded in sequence. I realize that for some if not most drivers, this may be the biggest issue but for purpose of the OJS, it should be taken out of the equation.

I used to make notes of time lost and time gained and review it with the driver prior to the WOR coming out the next day. This was not always possible but my notes were on the actual OJS form and could be reviewed.

If there was a big discrepancy from my notes to the over/under and also all of the performance indicators such as miles, pieces, stops, SPORH etc. then a supervisor could make a determination as to what way to go from there.

I sometimes wonder how well trained these new supervisors as well as young managers are compared to years ago.

I can recall going to mini TS schools to teach us the basics of TS as well as OJS schools which covered all aspects including dealing with difficult drivers vs the avg driver. These things were part of the strategic planning process to improve performance in a district. .... "back in the day"!

Is this something (training) that has become an "Achilles Heal" to UPS? I am interested to hear your thoughts on this.

Lifer I read this site daily and chime in only when it seems prudent(to me). Mostly I choose to challenge people like yourself who represent themselves as fair and open minded. The exception being to out the occasional maroon or hypocrite. You always come off as genuine and I'd bet what's left of my 104K that I've sized you up correctly. The problem in today's UPS is that the new generation of manager is a victim of the trickle down management program. Much like myself it doesn't matter what they think. What matters to these managers is what they are told by the goons in the ivory tower. They are beaten down with mandated directives that leave them without original thought or a conscience. Quite frankly Lifer it's a shame as this industry is won and lost on the front line. The managers I deal with would be better labeled as facilitators. Managing at today's UPS is done by people with laptop computers with no clue as to what goes on at the front line. Much like the stock market it is no longer good enough to do well. You have to do better than the year before. Unfortunately as a manual laborer the ceiling is inevitable.

 

[dilligaf]

Lifer I read this site daily and chime in only when it seems prudent(to me). Mostly I choose to challenge people like yourself who represent themselves as fair and open minded. The exception being to out the occasional maroon or hypocrite. You always come off as genuine and I'd bet what's left of my 104K that I've sized you up correctly. The problem in today's UPS is that the new generation of manager is a victim of the trickle down management program. Much like myself it doesn't matter what they think. What matters to these managers is what they are told by the goons in the ivory tower. They are beaten down with mandated directives that leave them without original thought or a conscience. Quite frankly Lifer it's a shame as this industry is won and lost on the front line. The managers I deal with would be better labeled as facilitators. Managing at today's UPS is done by people with laptop computers with no clue as to what goes on at the front line. Much like the stock market it is no longer good enough to do well. You have to do better than the year before. Unfortunately as a manual laborer the ceiling is inevitable.

And I would tell you that you win that bet. Hands down.

 

[UPS Lifer]

"A proper "performance OJS" should be planned out, also previous OJS and area trace reviewed. The supervisor should make sure that the load is not the issue and should be loaded in sequence. I realize that for some if not most drivers, this may be the biggest issue but for purpose of the OJS, it should be taken out of the equation." - ups lifer



Why is this not sabotage? Take poor load quality out of the equation, give driver a perfect sequence load, then hold him to that standard after the o.j.s? How is that fair? You get off car and load goes back to garbage, or maybe you make sure it stays a quality load every day because you are a fair manager, but what happens when you move to another center next year and the new guy claims I'm not maintaining my performance standard? Either fix the preload issues or ignore my performance, you can't have it both ways.

Load quality and area trace are not driver issues. I agree 100% about the issues you are talking about. A reasonable management person would be already talking to you and you would be telling mgmt that the load needs to be addressed. A first step to the performance ride would be to set up the load so that load quality is not the issue.

If a mgmt person is TRUELY going to fix the problem, they have to get to the root cause. To do that they have to eliminate all possible scenarios that the driver has no control over. This way you can eliminate or improve driver performance based on no extreneous factors. You can then address other issues which are more likely to help you get the results you are looking for and getting you to the root cause of the problem.

As you know - getting to the root cause is the only way to fix the problem. Everything else is a band aid.

As for upper management and the ivory tower micro-management problems.... in most cases, managers who use this approach are what Bubblehead calls just "facilitators". (A great comparison by the way!) A good manager has to stand up for what they believe in. As we know it is just easier to go along rather than make waves.

The reason micro-management started taking hold is because managers were not doing the job.... so a strong division manager or district manager did it for them!

These people (upper mgmt) did not get to their level because they were stupid. A good manager needs to sell upper management on what needs to be done and how he/she would like to go about doing it. (But it does have to work!!) If you come up with a viable plan and present it to upper management. Your plan has to make sense and show results... BUT you will get leeway to make it happen.

A couple of examples..... As a hub manager I started with 21 supervisors and I continued to show a need for supervisors. I was able to get to 33 supervisors. Other operations were cutting and I was adding! I was able to prove my case and I never let up. I left the operation and the supervisor force dropped to 26 within 3 months.

As a Center Manager - I showed a need for an extradinary amount of package cars and 24 foot vans for pick up and delivery. I showed what my operation was trying to do using peices per car and compared that to other operations. I was able to show how I would double trip vehicles and keep them in use all day long. I also showed how this would reduce missed packages and stops. I got what I needed to run the operation. ... but it was not easy! You do have to pull teeth some times but it can be done.

If you show success, then your boss and his boss etc. realize that when you say something you probably know what you are talking about.

Honestly, I have no use for managers who blame someone else for their problems. Unfortunately, this world is made up of a lot of people who are blamers and not doers or they have another agenda in mind... like climbing their way over you to get to the top of the pile.

I had only two main objectives as a manager. Take care of my boss and take care of my employees. You may be surprised but in most cases these two areas can be achieved with a little elbow grease.

 

[upsgrunt]

Load quality and area trace are not driver issues. I agree 100% about the issues you are talking about. A reasonable management person would be already talking to you and you would be telling mgmt that the load needs to be addressed. A first step to the performance ride would be to set up the load so that load quality is not the issue.

If a mgmt person is TRUELY going to fix the problem, they have to get to the root cause. To do that they have to eliminate all possible scenarios that the driver has no control over. This way you can eliminate or improve driver performance based on no extreneous factors. You can then address other issues which are more likely to help you get the results you are looking for and getting you to the root cause of the problem.

As you know - getting to the root cause is the only way to fix the problem. Everything else is a band aid.

As for upper management and the ivory tower micro-management problems.... in most cases, managers who use this approach are what Bubblehead calls just "facilitators". (A great comparison by the way!) A good manager has to stand up for what they believe in. As we know it is just easier to go along rather than make waves.

The reason micro-management started taking hold is because managers were not doing the job.... so a strong division manager or district manager did it for them!

These people (upper mgmt) did not get to their level because they were stupid. A good manager needs to sell upper management on what needs to be done and how he/she would like to go about doing it. (But it does have to work!!) If you come up with a viable plan and present it to upper management. Your plan has to make sense and show results... BUT you will get leeway to make it happen.

A couple of examples..... As a hub manager I started with 21 supervisors and I continued to show a need for supervisors. I was able to get to 33 supervisors. Other operations were cutting and I was adding! I was able to prove my case and I never let up. I left the operation and the supervisor force dropped to 26 within 3 months.

As a Center Manager - I showed a need for an extradinary amount of package cars and 24 foot vans for pick up and delivery. I showed what my operation was trying to do using peices per car and compared that to other operations. I was able to show how I would double trip vehicles and keep them in use all day long. I also showed how this would reduce missed packages and stops. I got what I needed to run the operation. ... but it was not easy! You do have to pull teeth some times but it can be done.

If you show success, then your boss and his boss etc. realize that when you say something you probably know what you are talking about.

Honestly, I have no use for managers who blame someone else for their problems. Unfortunately, this world is made up of a lot of people who are blamers and not doers or they have another agenda in mind... like climbing their way over you to get to the top of the pile.

I had only two main objectives as a manager. Take care of my boss and take care of my employees. You may be surprised but in most cases these two areas can be achieved with a little elbow grease.

I believe I would take a pay cut if you come back to work----


in my center.

 

[JustTired]

I had only two main objectives as a manager. Take care of my boss and take care of my employees. You may be surprised but in most cases these two areas can be achieved with a little elbow grease.

A very good philosophy!

It seems to me that those that move up the ladder forget that with each move, they may still only have one boss, but the total of their employees grows. Too many (I think) only consider those directly below them as 'their employees'. The others as just pawns to be manipulated as they see fit without regard to the 'human factor'.

Those that realize their responsibility goes beyond only those directly below them, will most likely get the respect and results they're looking to achieve. I think that's been lost. I believe some of this is due to a generational change in management while another part can be contributed to the company 'going public'.

I don't foresee it getting better anytime soon.....if ever. And that's a shame.

 

[bigblu 2 you]

at our center it seems the warning letters are bypassed.just today a driver was taken out of service for wrong side backing.center manager was wathching{we call it the sneek and peek}empty lot, no cars near .driver backed into parking space albeit wrong side.center manager pulls him out of service on safety violation.1st time driver was spoken to,good record good guy ,just made one mistake.rather than given a verbal the center manager felt the need to rake him over the coals verbally and pull him out for a day.is this good mngmnt or just a misuse of microauthority?

 

[Coldworld]

Load quality and area trace are not driver issues. I agree 100% about the issues you are talking about. A reasonable management person would be already talking to you and you would be telling mgmt that the load needs to be addressed. A first step to the performance ride would be to set up the load so that load quality is not the issue.

If a mgmt person is TRUELY going to fix the problem, they have to get to the root cause. To do that they have to eliminate all possible scenarios that the driver has no control over. This way you can eliminate or improve driver performance based on no extreneous factors. You can then address other issues which are more likely to help you get the results you are looking for and getting you to the root cause of the problem.

As you know - getting to the root cause is the only way to fix the problem. Everything else is a band aid.

As for upper management and the ivory tower micro-management problems.... in most cases, managers who use this approach are what Bubblehead calls just "facilitators". (A great comparison by the way!) A good manager has to stand up for what they believe in. As we know it is just easier to go along rather than make waves.

The reason micro-management started taking hold is because managers were not doing the job.... so a strong division manager or district manager did it for them!

These people (upper mgmt) did not get to their level because they were stupid. A good manager needs to sell upper management on what needs to be done and how he/she would like to go about doing it. (But it does have to work!!) If you come up with a viable plan and present it to upper management. Your plan has to make sense and show results... BUT you will get leeway to make it happen.

A couple of examples..... As a hub manager I started with 21 supervisors and I continued to show a need for supervisors. I was able to get to 33 supervisors. Other operations were cutting and I was adding! I was able to prove my case and I never let up. I left the operation and the supervisor force dropped to 26 within 3 months.

As a Center Manager - I showed a need for an extradinary amount of package cars and 24 foot vans for pick up and delivery. I showed what my operation was trying to do using peices per car and compared that to other operations. I was able to show how I would double trip vehicles and keep them in use all day long. I also showed how this would reduce missed packages and stops. I got what I needed to run the operation. ... but it was not easy! You do have to pull teeth some times but it can be done.

If you show success, then your boss and his boss etc. realize that when you say something you probably know what you are talking about.

Honestly, I have no use for managers who blame someone else for their problems. Unfortunately, this world is made up of a lot of people who are blamers and not doers or they have another agenda in mind... like climbing their way over you to get to the top of the pile.

I had only two main objectives as a manager. Take care of my boss and take care of my employees. You may be surprised but in most cases these two areas can be achieved with a little elbow grease.

great points, but to be honest with you this kind of thinking would never work in todays economy...period.

 

[dilligaf]

at our center it seems the warning letters are bypassed.just today a driver was taken out of service for wrong side backing.center manager was wathching{we call it the sneek and peek}empty lot, no cars near .driver backed into parking space albeit wrong side.center manager pulls him out of service on safety violation.1st time driver was spoken to,good record good guy ,just made one mistake.rather than given a verbal the center manager felt the need to rake him over the coals verbally and pull him out for a day.is this good mngmnt or just a misuse of microauthority?

That's ridiculous. It is the least preferred, not that we can't do it at all. I would grieve this and try and get the lost pay back. There are many situations when we have to blindside back. That is just plain stupid.

 

[bigblu 2 you]

That's ridiculous. It is the least preferred, not that we can't do it at all. I would grieve this and try and get the lost pay back. There are many situations when we have to blindside back. That is just plain stupid.

dill,what do you mean by least preferred?maybe i can relay this to the driver if he would grieve it.

 

[UPS Lifer]

That's ridiculous. It is the least preferred, not that we can't do it at all. I would grieve this and try and get the lost pay back. There are many situations when we have to blindside back. That is just plain stupid.

My guess is that the only way this person could have been pulled out of service without warning is for gross negligence. If he was pulled out of service and given an inside job pending an investigation you will have to wait for the outcome to take further steps.

Otherwise, I agree with dill. Grieve it. I don't think this will stand up unless there are circumstances we don't know about.

 

[Bubblehead]

Honestly since the inception of the rear view camera, I don't believe there is any difference in which way I back.
From my seat I can see equally well out of each mirror with what's directly behind me visible in my monitor.
To stick my head out of the door to look over my left shoulder gives me no tactical advantage and actually diminishes my ability to cover all angles. Not to mention the possible safety hazard, much like putting my mirror in and out when parking on a busy street. Is my mirror more important than my hand?
Furthermore my P700 has a sharper turn radius to the right than the left which makes it possible to make my back in one motion to the so called "blind side" where it takes two movements to the drivers side.
Which is safer?
I say my way.
Add a dollar to what I say and you can get a cup of coffee.

 

[dilligaf]

dill,what do you mean by least preferred?maybe i can relay this to the driver if he would grieve it.

Every S & V test that I have ever done on backing one, of the questions is "What is the least preferred method of backing?". The answer has always been blind side backing. On every backing pcm that I have ever heard, blind side backing is the 'least preferred'. They cannot tell us to NOT EVER blind side back. It is impossible to not ever blindside back.

He should grieve it regardless. The issues that we do not know about will make the difference if this grievance is won or lost.

 

[UPS Lifer]

Honestly since the inception of the rear view camera, I don't believe there is any difference in which way I back.
From my seat I can see equally well out of each mirror with what's directly behind me visible in my monitor.
To stick my head out of the door to look over my left shoulder gives me no tactical advantage and actually diminishes my ability to cover all angles. Not to mention the possible safety hazard, much like putting my mirror in and out when parking on a busy street. Is my mirror more important than my hand?
Furthermore my P700 has a sharper turn radius to the right than the left which makes it possible to make my back in one motion to the so called "blind side" where it takes two movements to the drivers side.
Which is safer?
I say my way.
Add a dollar to what I say and you can get a cup of coffee.

It sounds to me you got it all figured out!

The camera is an aid. There is nothing better than your own two eyes to give you depth perception, distance and the ability to quickly assess a large area for risks and hazards. If you back to the blind side, you lose your best visual tool. Now! Where is that cup of coffee at! I am thirsty. LOL

 

[bigblu 2 you]

Every S & V test that I have ever done on backing one, of the questions is "What is the least preferred method of backing?". The answer has always been blind side backing. On every backing pcm that I have ever heard, blind side backing is the 'least preferred'. They cannot tell us to NOT EVER blind side back. It is impossible to not ever blindside back.

He should grieve it regardless. The issues that we do not know about will make the difference if this grievance is won or lost.

there were no other issues,just an empty lot and a mngr looking to abuse authority.the driver could have drove up somewhat farther and swung around but his passenger side would be opposite customer entrance,and he probably would have been approached on that too.what i see is a no winner when it comes to methods/s&v.