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tieguy
Banned
Danny I don't think the company really cares as much about the time study as they do SPORH.
dannyboy
From the promised LAND
But then why do they target the ones that are an hour or more over for action?
IT seems like they use both to their advantage, but can only use one for discipline?
In my business, if something is not working right, it is in my best interests to see to it that it works well. P man said it well
Its like getting a girl to go out with you because you promised a great meal and entertainment, and then taking her for pizza and beer while watching the ball game. It might be OK, but less than it could be.
So I agree, it is an excellent methodology. But to the drivers that are dealing with the faults that remain un-fixed, the Ferrari looks and acts more like a Yugo. OR like running the whole field with the ball, only to lay down on the one yard line thinking you scored.
Remember, perception is reality, even if it is a mis-perception.
d
IT seems like they use both to their advantage, but can only use one for discipline?
In my business, if something is not working right, it is in my best interests to see to it that it works well. P man said it well
And while it might never be perfect, it could still be much better than it is.
Its like getting a girl to go out with you because you promised a great meal and entertainment, and then taking her for pizza and beer while watching the ball game. It might be OK, but less than it could be.
So I agree, it is an excellent methodology. But to the drivers that are dealing with the faults that remain un-fixed, the Ferrari looks and acts more like a Yugo. OR like running the whole field with the ball, only to lay down on the one yard line thinking you scored.
Remember, perception is reality, even if it is a mis-perception.
d
tieguy
Banned
If I'm reading your response correctly and I think I am if:
A guy is running two hours over its a bad timestudy.
If the guy is running an hour under its extra effort?
upsgrunt
Well-Known Member
Maybe-
I'm just wondering about a middle ground here where it is fair for everyone. Where drivers who do everything by the book and have great methods don't need to be dispatched less than 8 to be on road less than 9.5., and drivers who can run bonus don't have to be added to in order to show on road hours at 9 and to bring the center or district numbers up to averages that keep the big wigs in Atlanta happy.
Our center runs bonus-don't know why, but we make UPS look good. I'm not saying we work harder than anyone else, but as a whole, our center beats the averages. Should an over 9.5 dispatch be grievable even though the on road time was less than 9.5? The union and UPS says you are getting paid punch to punch, and no you can't. The dispatch is how long the route SHOULD have taken. Why was bonus ever offered if not for the incentive of getting in early? You know- customers get their packages earlier, and the local sort gets volume earlier, if the only outcome is to add more work.
Tie, when you finish your work ahead of 5 or 6 oclock are you expected to do more work because you are efficient for that day? Or if you have to stay late because you have too much to do is it because your methods and time management are sloppy? Or do you just go home early that day and enjoy your family?
I'm not trying to fight or bait anyone here- just want an honest, middle ground where everyone can benefit. My opinions may be wrong, but it doesn't hurt to wonder.
Steve
I don't know about that Tie. Right now in my building every driver who runs more than hour over is getting targeted. The DM literally has a bulletin board in his office with the name of every driver who ran more than hour over the day before and what action is being taken to correct it. It's darn near the #1 issue that the CMs have to answer for when they go upstairs for their meeting.
This same DM had a building wide pcm earlier this year in which he said that(I'm paraphrasing here)"Every driver in this building ran scratch during his qualification, so there's no reason why every driver can't be running scratch every day now. And that's what you're going to do."
It's not going that way, but not for lack of effort on his part.
The only time sporh comes into play is when they do a lock in ride.
hurricanegunner
UPSPoop
Telematics has nothing to do with safety. It's all about spying on the drivers. Period.
Bubblehead
My Senior Picture
I don't care about whether my load is harder than the next guys and etc.
My point is rather than figuring in fudge factors to account for the perpetual overallowed driver on a particular route, who has been found to have no holes in their methods, FIX THE ALLOWANCES IN THE TIME STUDY AND BE DONE WITH IT.
Fix the problem rather than treat the symptoms.
I agree it's apparently way to simple.
M
Mike23
Guest
My beef (where's the beef?!) is with oncalls. You get time allowances for them but they don't count as 'stops'. I get, regularly, 10-15 oncalls a day (not as much as some, I know but in Calgary it's one of the higher up oncall runs). Not one of them counts as a stop so therefore I'm dispatched with a split to get my 9.5 then ontop of that I get these oncalls which turns into 10.5.
Fix the damn thing already or I'll pee on your desk!
Fix the damn thing already or I'll pee on your desk!
JustTired
free at last.......
A little story, if I may.
A man has a dog. The dog has been by his side for several years. He counts on the man to give him food and a place to live. In return, he fetches the paper, warns him of anyone approaching the house and has been a loyal companion.
They often goes to the local lake where the man throws a stick into the water and the dog swims out to retrieve it. They have done this for years and both get enjoyment out of it. But one day the man decides to throw the stick a bit farther. The dog retrieves it without problem. So he throws it even farther. This continues with the man throwing it out a little further each time. Eventually the man notices that the dog is slowing down and it's becoming more difficult for him to get back to shore. But he continues to throw the stick and each time a little further. The dog (whether out of loyalty or just stupidity) continues to try and retrieve the stick. Finally, while attempting to retrieve the stick, he goes under...... too exhausted to continue, and drowns. The man stands on the shore watching the event unfold. He stands there in bewilderment, trying to figure out what just happened and why.
He returns home alone. No more loyal companion to keep him company.
But wait! That's not the end of the story.
He decides to get another dog. After all, there are many dogs looking for homes. He gets the dog, teaches it to fetch the stick, takes him to the lake....... where the above events play out all over again.
I keep hearing lately the old definition of "insanity". The one where you continue to do the same thing, over and over, expecting a different result.
If any of this sounds familiar....you might want to stop trying to fetch that stick. If it doesn't.......keep throwing the stick.......someone will fetch it for a while.
A man has a dog. The dog has been by his side for several years. He counts on the man to give him food and a place to live. In return, he fetches the paper, warns him of anyone approaching the house and has been a loyal companion.
They often goes to the local lake where the man throws a stick into the water and the dog swims out to retrieve it. They have done this for years and both get enjoyment out of it. But one day the man decides to throw the stick a bit farther. The dog retrieves it without problem. So he throws it even farther. This continues with the man throwing it out a little further each time. Eventually the man notices that the dog is slowing down and it's becoming more difficult for him to get back to shore. But he continues to throw the stick and each time a little further. The dog (whether out of loyalty or just stupidity) continues to try and retrieve the stick. Finally, while attempting to retrieve the stick, he goes under...... too exhausted to continue, and drowns. The man stands on the shore watching the event unfold. He stands there in bewilderment, trying to figure out what just happened and why.
He returns home alone. No more loyal companion to keep him company.
But wait! That's not the end of the story.
He decides to get another dog. After all, there are many dogs looking for homes. He gets the dog, teaches it to fetch the stick, takes him to the lake....... where the above events play out all over again.
I keep hearing lately the old definition of "insanity". The one where you continue to do the same thing, over and over, expecting a different result.
If any of this sounds familiar....you might want to stop trying to fetch that stick. If it doesn't.......keep throwing the stick.......someone will fetch it for a while.
pretzel_man
Well-Known Member
I agree... If the driver had a good load, a good trace, good dispatch, and good methods, the time study should be fixed.
From my experience, the above situation doesn't happen often.
BTW, only one of the four causes of overallowed I mentioned above are the driver's fault.
P-Man
tourists24
Well-Known Member
In our center (about 105 drivers) there are very very few that run scratch or better.... does that mean that we are all slugs? I mean if the majority of time studies are accurate, only the slugs would be over allowed right?
pretzel_man
Well-Known Member
No... As I said before, there are other things beside the driver that can cause overallowed.
How is your load? Missorts? How is the trace? Is the dispatch efficient?
If all of these things are good, and the driver has good methods, then yes, the times study is a likely cause.
P-Man
tourists24
Well-Known Member
Sups dont care about all those things..... they see overallowed
pretzel_man
Well-Known Member
I cannot disagree with you, at least for many sups. Overallowed is meant to point to where something is inefficient. It is not meant to say why it is inefficient.
You would agree then that a poor load will take longer to deliver than a good load? Given good methods, that difference in time will be overallowed.
Fix the cause, and overallowed will go down.
P-Man
tourists24
Well-Known Member
lol... your preaching to the choir there Pman... I agree with your last statement.... unfortunately the term "easier said than done comes to mind"
JustTired
free at last.......
If the standards are, in general, screwed up (and we all know they are) and TS's are not even remotely a concern....then the overallowed should not be a concern either. How can you hold someone to a bogus time study?
Pman
You stated:
I agree... If the driver had a good load, a good trace, good dispatch, and good methods, the time study should be fixed.
The odds of all 4 of these things being 'good' is 'next to none'. Taking the fourth item out of the equation and assuming that we have a driver with pretty fair methods, I'll place the other three in order of the odds of them happening.
1. good load (50/50 chance depending on what the loader did the night before)
2. good trace (haven't seen one since the implementation of PAS/EDD)
3. good dispatch (how can you ever have a 'good dispatch' if you don't have a 'good' time study?)
In your evaluation, the driver will never have a good dispatch without a good time study. Yet to get a time study, he has to have a good dispatch as one of the prerequisites. Sounds like a catch-22 to me.
I consider you to be an upfront guy and have learned a lot from your posts. But please....don't start drinking the kool-aid and believing in the numbers game. There won't be a future in it. Unless, of course, those numbers become based in reality instead of fantasy.
atatbl
Well-Known Member
New teams rolled out in every district this year. All done with google earth. From what I have gathered, anywhere between 2 and 10 people per district. Hot priority. My center's took literally 5 months to get approved.
P man, have you heard how hard corporate is working to approve the onslaught of studies turned in? I have heard of some center's getting theirs approved in two weeks. What makes some priority over others?
P.S. I have seen the statement here before and I want to assure everyone that it really can happen to you: every study I have heard of being approved (9) has gained the center time (as a whole). I think Sober talked about his and said they made time. Either way, you now have the chance to win the lottery at USP
P.P.S. Just tired, all standards and unit numbers are re-done in the study. They start from scratch.
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