Thanks for the recommendation. I will definitely put that on my reading list. So, monetaryily speaking, was the major difference between the pre and post 1996 dedicated pension?
What would it take?
- Thread starter cancan
- Start date
Ok, that makes more sense.
Operational needs
Virescit Vulnere Virtus
To add insult to injury, they actually tried to make us believe that it was a good deal for us. Some people were dumb enough to buy into it. Lol. Anytime FedEx tries to sell us a "bill of goods", doubt it. It is never to our advantage. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.
Yeah, I was with the company then. I believe in around 06' they gave people a choice of the pension plan they wanted, and then in 08' the grim reality hit. If I would have stayed with the company my "pension" would have been more of a nice retirement gift, hardly something you could live off of. The people who were top of scale, and already maxed out on their traditional pension, made out very well. Everybody else got screwed.
hypo hanna
Well-Known Member
Oh they got screwed too, just not nearly as bad as the newer employees. Before , pension payouts would be based on the average of the top 5 years of pay. For the vast majority of workers that would be the last 5 years as well. So in my case I worked (invested), 30 years but still have a way to go before I would reach those top five years. Now whats left of my old pension is based on my pay scale before we we t to the 401k porta potty plan. The differance for some can mean as much as 30% less after compounding.
The pension was a sure thing, now we are forced to gamble our golden years on the whims of the stock market and trust that those big brained corporate leaders don't screw it all up again like they did in 2008.
I hear you, but at least your age group should see what's left of Social Security, and you still have a decent traditional pension amount. The majority of twenty and thirty somethings have almost zero chance of enjoying a worry free retirement. Unfortunately, this is not an exaggeration. Even the people that can save are not doing so great. I have seen studies that suggest 3 out of every 5 people that are saving for retirement are taking on more debt than they are saving. This is very sad considering that this country was the only one in the history of civilization to produce economic conditions that allowed every generation between 1860 - 1970 to have a better life (economically speaking) than the preceding generation. That feat may not be replicated again. I cannot believe how far we have fallen. Any who, I'm off to enjoy a relatively sunny Saturday afternoon.
Serf
Well-Known Member
My mistake, Maam. Perhaps a Shakespearean tragedy is too romanticized. That is what I was touching on with our most senior drivers. They are vested in the traditional pension, paid off all debt, and contributed over 10% to there 401k for years and years. They speak of the new Portable Pension Account as a lump sum severance instead of what the pay out would be a month, as it is a joke. Moving out of the country is an option, as is a state that doesn't tax income/pension money.
The economic conditions you speak of will never be replicated again. And it isn't a Democrat thing or Republican thing, it's a Government thing. And now for one last example of misery. A courier who I work with and know well. He has been with the company since Fall of 2006. May 31, 2008 is when the new Portable Pension Account took place officially. Now take in mind he is a full time employee and makes only around 18 dollars and change an hour. Fedex contributes a certain % to your new pension plan based on time worked, gross wages, and years of service. His pension statement after 8 years was $7,700 dollars. And that's before tax.
He, started at 40 years old. He has a second job like me and hopes to work at fedex until 62. So after 22 years of full time service he estimates there will be around 25k in the lousy pension fund, after tax about 19,000 for 22 years of work. Add in his 6% contribution and 3% match for 22 years, estimation is 90K in the 401k. And assuming social security does not dry up by the year 2034 like it's predicted to. Around another 1,400 dollars a month. But he intends to withdraw early so he will be penalized and it will only be about $975 a month. His second job entirely and strictly pays his mortgage and taxes. He knows his prospects are grim, that is why he is planning to move out of the country where his dollar power is greater. His short list of countries are: Ecuador, Ireland, Thailand, and Ukraine. I used to think he was nuts. But for the numbers he's throwing at me for what it would cost annually to live, I'm starting to think he's a genius.
hypo hanna
Well-Known Member
Add in that 22 years from now that 90K at the present rate of inflation will be worth 75K.
I worry about the next generation/s more then anything. American exceptional ism is rapidly giving way to a hopeless dystopian society of haves and those who never had a chance.
Serf
Well-Known Member
Exactly. So if you can come to terms with living in a hostel in Kiev, or a studio apartment in Manilla; where for about 5 U.S. dollars a day you can live like a king, you're good. If that reality scares you, you got big problems. You wont find me whining about the income gap in America, because there is literally nothing you can do about it. Correct, have's and have not's will turn into those who never had a chance. And don't be surprised when the Government exhausts social security and subsequently forces all the private 401k and IRA's to buy treasure bonds and ultimately gives them control of your own private assets. In turn, if you're a good little minion, your hard earned shillings will be controlled by big brother and you will be given a meager monthly stipend of your own money. While the rest goes to the country. Mind Blown! Trust me, it could happen easily.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
e
Please pay attention. What we do is not related to the global economy other than the fact that FedEx gets revenue from foreign countries to provide services. Our Traditional Pension went away in 2008 for one reason...greed. The old plan wasn't especially good anyway, and I'll get less than half of what a career UPS driver will get at retirement. Newer employees will get far less with the PPA, which is an annuity, NOT a retirement plan.
It sounds like you've bought fully into the GOP worldview that says we have a "new reality" and that you should be content making $14 per hour with crappy benefits and a lame 401k. bbsam, and others like him love to perpetuate the idea that we can do nothing about it. In other words, we are all doomed to be Ground drivers or something just as bad. What's not said is that bbsam, Fred S, and the other non-hourly people are doing just fine, thank you. They make bank when you're passive and willing to work for less than you are worth.
Our job compares most closely to UPS, and with the current demands for SPH, we aren't far off their level of work. But you are getting less than half their wage if you are a relatively new Express employee, and those wages won't rise very much at all.
Also, when Rajiv, and Juan, and Wang can come here on work visas from their home countries and do your job, then the global economy has a direct impact on how you should be compensated. That isn't going to happen, so don't buy Smith's and bbsam's Big Lie.
Please pay attention. What we do is not related to the global economy other than the fact that FedEx gets revenue from foreign countries to provide services. Our Traditional Pension went away in 2008 for one reason...greed. The old plan wasn't especially good anyway, and I'll get less than half of what a career UPS driver will get at retirement. Newer employees will get far less with the PPA, which is an annuity, NOT a retirement plan.
It sounds like you've bought fully into the GOP worldview that says we have a "new reality" and that you should be content making $14 per hour with crappy benefits and a lame 401k. bbsam, and others like him love to perpetuate the idea that we can do nothing about it. In other words, we are all doomed to be Ground drivers or something just as bad. What's not said is that bbsam, Fred S, and the other non-hourly people are doing just fine, thank you. They make bank when you're passive and willing to work for less than you are worth.
Our job compares most closely to UPS, and with the current demands for SPH, we aren't far off their level of work. But you are getting less than half their wage if you are a relatively new Express employee, and those wages won't rise very much at all.
Also, when Rajiv, and Juan, and Wang can come here on work visas from their home countries and do your job, then the global economy has a direct impact on how you should be compensated. That isn't going to happen, so don't buy Smith's and bbsam's Big Lie.
I'd be more than happy to see it change. In fact, I think it will on the Ground side from what I hear coming out of Pittsburgh and read in Time magazine. There's been alot of skittish and stupid caution going on in the market that seems like it might be winding down. Pittsburgh isn't blind to the deficiencies at Ground and they understand that business always has financials attached. It won't be UPS compensation, but closer to Express.
MAKAVELI
Well-Known Member
Just how is Pittsburgh going to enforce contractors to pay more in wages & benefits without exerting control over the contractor and his employees? What would stop the contractors from just pocketing the extra $?
MAKAVELI
Well-Known Member
Good luck with that one. I just don't see that happening. Ground doesn't even weed out the bad contractors they have now.
They've started. That's where the money comes in though. It's kind of a delicate balance between figuring which ones are "bad" and which ones could be good. No sense in terminating contracts just to sign a other bad contract with someone else to fail.
Serf
Well-Known Member
I was using foreign countries as an example of where you can plan on retiring if you are relying on Fedex. Correct the old pension wasn't really all that great either. The new PPA in a lump sum or small payout is crap. I may have bought into the GOP worldview, but it's better than continuing to vote Democrat and stay poor. And ask yourself when and how do you think it will get better?
All the gentlemen that come from India, Latin American countries, and Asia are free to immigrate here and work for Fedex. And as I have stated before, I have the arrangement of relying on Fedex for extra income, benefits, and 401k. I don't even have to use the benefits, as I have them from Veterans Affairs, but I choose to. I am not living pay check to pay check and cursing Mr. Smith every step of the way.
And the argument of "you haven't been here long enough to see how much we get taken away from us" is old. Maybe misery really does love company.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
Actually, the argument of "you haven't been here long enough etc" is completely accurate. Most employees are not aware of the degree to which they have been screwed. It might seem old, but if you have been around long enough, you have even more reason to be bitter. A lot of folks think the old-timers like me have it made, and relative to the newest employees, that is true. But in comparison to UPS, we have lost an incredible mount of compensation. The profit-sharing plan, decent insurance, and other perks that are long gone helped bridge the relatively small gap that used to exist between us and UPS. That small amount has now become the Grand Canyon, especially for new Express employees, who are making less than half what a UPS driver makes.
Serf
Well-Known Member
Fair enough. It is true you have lost hundreds of thousands of dollars in money and assets. You acknowledge senior drivers have it made, but only relative to the newest employees. How about regardless, have it made if you were disciplined enough to build a foundation. Landing a job that earns in the mid to high twenties in hourly salary is almost unheard of today without a degree or formal training in a specific trade. It's admirable that you weep for the new jacks who will never see what you have, or worse the ten-fifteen year employees who are in limbo, will never see top pay, and have had everything stripped from them.
It baffles me. What kind of person stays and puts up with the abuse? We do live in a country with options. This isn't the Balkans or Hanoi. Your prospects aren't really that grim, if you develop a plan and stick to it. That plan can be as simple as a second part time job, not an elaborate small business model.
Senior employees feeling pity on junior employees. Junior Employees developing complex's and comparing there career paths with UPS every step of the way. Freshmen and Sophomore employees not having a single clue as to how they are being led to slaughter. And Joe public seeing "the fedex guy" out and about and thinking he or she has a pretty good job with a good company. All the while not having a clue that they aren't getting a fair
shake. Only In America man.
DontThrowPackages
Well-Known Member
You sound just like someone coming from a rich country like Germany going to retire in a poor country telling those people there to stop complaining. Opportunity is all around you. Fact is, for most of us, if we were in our 20's we'd be long gone from this place. You only have to look at ground and the PT's at Express to see the revolving door of employees they have. The one's still here and not going anywhere are in their late 40's, 50's and even older. It's like ordering a meal and coming down to the last few bites only to find a hair. It's not very practical to vomit up the meal and order a new one. You're kinda stuck. A friend a was recently promoted and offered me to get my CDL and drive for them. Great money but, It would still mean start all over....and at the bottom.
Similar threads
