22.3 Questions

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by steeltoe, Jun 10, 2007.

  1. steeltoe

    steeltoe New Member

    My building has never had any 22.3 jobs. They have now placed a bid sheet up for more than 10 jobs. All jobs are inside-inside. No combo driving jobs. My question is who has the right to these jobs? We are being told that all full-time package and feeder have first bids on these jobs regardless of seniority over any part-timer. Meaning a full-timer with 1 year of seniority would outbid a part-timer with 20 years. Many in our building believed that since these jobs are the combination of 2 part-time jobs to make a full-time job that the part-timers would have first refusal in seniority order. Heck, is not all of ARTICLE 22 not considered part-time language?

    On the other hand, many also thought that these jobs would be created for part-timers whocan not qualify for their DOT card, but physically able to preform the inside work.
  2. Fredless

    Fredless APWA Hater

    It is the same way in my building as well, and when I went to see my parents in Memphis Tennessee, I spoke with the driver who picks up everyday from my step dad's business and he told me the 22.3 jobs are bid the same way as they are here, and where you are.

    Yes it sucks thats how it is, and what will happen most of the time is that very junior package car drivers will take the easy/easy 22.3 jobs and completely shaft a part timer whose been waiting for years for a full time job but can't physically handle package driving or they just plain ol don't want to do it. Have fun working till your 80 like Mr. Peters.

    The union will say "well its like that because thats how it is" or "its designed that way to give the old timers a way out before they retire"

    bull****. absolute bull****. The senior drivers have it so good comparitively and they make 70-80k a year. So they can't AFFORD to go to a 22.3 job, thats a huge paycut going from 80k to around 40k a year. The junior guys aren't a top rate yet, and its an easy way out of driving to make the same money to push a broom and then be a clerk or carwasher. I'd make that move myself. Meanwhile, the part timers in the clerk/carwash/porter jobs will get sent back to preload or reload and just be told "sorry, thats how it is." Exactly what happened to all of our air drivers, they all got shafted took a big paycut and sent back down to preload or reload. You won't find a 22.3 guy doing the hard jobs like the sort aisle or unload though. The union will make a 45-50 year old worker get banished back to those jobs first.

    Now that you know how screwed you are with those jobs as a part timer, and how the company is rumored to move our gurantee back to 3 hours a shift and probably no pay raise AGAIN - when do you start to stop barking and start biting? I'm a steward and I hear a lot of crying, but when I say go to the union meetings, raise hell get involved - they won't show. The full timers may have complete control of us in the work place, but our vote still counts as much as theirs.

    Get involved, get others involved. The part timers could basically RUN this union but we allow ourselves to get **** on left and right.

    You ready to go out there and strike for the full timers though because they weren't far sighted enough to learn from the airline industry, steel industry and now auto industry? As far as I am concerned, I don't feel sorry for the guys who have relied 100% on central states since DAY 1 and got screwed. They're complete fools to rely on a company and/or a union with their retirement fund.
  3. dunderchief

    dunderchief New Member

    That is actually not how it is in Kentucky. Here all new 22.3 jobs are bid out to part-timers first. Any time an established 22.3 job is vacated it is then put up to bid for full-timers
  4. Overpaid Union Thug

    Overpaid Union Thug Well-Known Member

    Here a new 22.3 is bid by full-timers first then part-timers. I don't know about existing 22.3s that get vacated. We only have one anyway and the guy only works "hours only" and goes home after the first shift. It's such a joke.
  5. Fredless

    Fredless APWA Hater

    I bet is his second shift is something more of a pain in the ass too. The 22.3's are untouchables during the reload shift, but the part timers get harassed for the same mistakes they make.

    The whole damned thing is a joke.
  6. HazMatMan

    HazMatMan New Member

    Not here in Metro New York. I have never heard of a package driver being able to bid on a 22.3 job, never......22.3 jobs here are bid on by part-timers..
  7. RozUPS

    RozUPS New Member

    I have been with UPS for a little over two months..My ultimate goal is full time work. I just took the road test for Sat. driving. If I want to drive full time should I stay away from the 22.3 jobs? Seems like it really screws up seniority and pay rate. In my building driving seems to be the fastest way to FT
  8. 1989

    1989 Well-Known Member

    It shouldn't matter. Once you go driving, that will be your new (center) seniority date (when you can take vacation). You will still have your hire date (company date) for vacation (# of weeks). You will start at the bottom of the driving pay scale no matter what.
  9. RozUPS

    RozUPS New Member


    Would going 22.3 while waiting for cover or full time driving cause me to wait longer or is seniority the same no matter what I do.
  10. rapidrandall

    rapidrandall slow but sure

    combo jobs should be bid by company seniority, regardless of whether fulltime or parttime. Different areas might have different language in their area riders. Check with your local for verification.
  11. UPS Lifer

    UPS Lifer Well-Known Member

    Steel Toe
    Check with your Business Agent. UPS and the Teamsters agree on the way the jobs will be implemented. On the West Coast, the Regional Air Hub has some of the highest concentration of 22.3 workers. Those jobs are in the triple digits. The one stipulation is that you must remain in one position at least 6 months before you can take another position.
    Remember that any 22.3 job a driver takes; opens up a driving job for some part time employee. Most drivers do not want 22.3 jobs. Most PT lifers do not want to work as hard as a driver, or they don't want to meet the uniform guidelines etc. The wait for a 22.3 job at the West Coast Air hub is 2-4 years while driver jobs are 4 years plus depending on the hub or center you want. Each area of the country will be different depending on the number of 22.3 jobs.

    RozUPS - you can take a 22.3 job but you have to wait 6 months before going driving.
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2007
  12. jware

    jware New Member

    here in lenexa ks. full-time jobs being posted go to those with the most full full-time seniority reguardless if your a present 22.3 employee or a driver. After that it goes to the person with the most part-time seniority.
  13. scratch

    scratch Least Best Moderator Staff Member

    I am in the same Hub as you, and I was surprised and happy to see that those 22.3 jobs finally came to our building. That being said, I don't know of any FTers that are interested in them. All the Package Drivers who wanted an easier job have gone into Feeder. Most everybody that wanted to go into Feeder is there now. We have had a massive turnover in Package and Feeder the last year or two.
  14. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    new 22.3 jobs should go to part timers first.

    Vacated 22.3 jobs should be offered to all full timers first.
  15. Overpaid Union Thug

    Overpaid Union Thug Well-Known Member

    It seems that new 22.3 jobs are being created in mass around the country lately. We were recently told that a new 22.3 job that is being created in our building must be bid by current full-timers first and that it's based on full-time seniority and not company seniority. New driver jobs are being created as well. I was wondering how many days will the center have to fill the new driver positions once the bid sheets are taken down. Anyone know? And what happens if the winning bidder is on vacation when it's time to fill the job?
  16. steeltoe

    steeltoe New Member

    Tieguy, when you say "should go to part timers first", are you saying that this is your opinion, or is there language or panel decisions to back up your statement. Any information would be greatly appreciated.
  17. steeltoe

    steeltoe New Member

    Scratch, great to hear from you. I have looked at the bid list and see a group of full-timers who have signed the bid sheet. Do you think these guys are just making sure the process is follwed or are they really interested. From my understanding of the contract, a full-time package car driver out of progression would go from $27.19 per hour to $21.50 due to the clasification change. What do you think?
  18. scratch

    scratch Least Best Moderator Staff Member

    I am not aware of any FT Package Drivers signing the 22.3 Bid Lists. Like you said, they would take a $5.69 an hour pay cut plus lose most of the $40.78 an hour overtime. If I work 9.5 hours everyday, thats about $300 extra OT every week. I looked at those Bid Lists last week, and I didn't recognize any of the names. But then again, I don't know most of the newer drivers by name that started within the last ten years. I think we have about 140-160 TCD and FT Package Drivers between the two Centers in our Hub. There might be a couple interested in 22.3 jobs due to their bodies being worn out, but I haven't personally heard of any of the Old Timers interested in them. Nor do I know if a FTer has first bid rights over a PTer, I think that should be by company seniority. Most of the Package Drivers who were interested in Feeder are there now or have signed up for Feeder School. I have seen new Feeder Drivers being trained everyday ever since the Fast Lane enhancements took place plus a lot of the senior Feeder guys hitting their thirty years. I think that these 22.3 jobs will go to the PTers, but it would be best to contact our Business Agent or the Local to be sure. I see JH, our BA, in the building often at all hours of the day.
  19. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    Steel 22.3 language some of the sloppiest language written. Clearly a rush job. There is another version of the contract few people see. It lists the intent behind the language written. It shows what those who wrote the contract intended when they did so. Based on panel cases and application I have seen I believe the intent was to offer new jobs to part timers first and then allow the job to be bid to all when vacated. Reading through this thread though it appears other parts of the country either intrepeted differently or they have local language that has a different spin.


    22.3 jobs are designed for part-timers to become full-timers. The only full-time person eligible to bid on a 22-3 is a veteran with more than 20 years with the company. At least that is how it is done in the Desert Mountain District.