3 day ride results "invalidated" by center manager


Well-Known Member
Here comes more harrassment!

After several years of managers griping about my overallowed, I FINALLY had my three day ride last week to clear myself.

I usually run about 2 hours over every day.

I ran exactly the same numbers during the ride and I clocked off between 8:30 and 9:40 all three days.

I was proud on the fourth morning as I went back to work. I felt vindicated!

My center manager approached me and told me that he invalidated my results as he felt that the rides were a waste of time!

I am told by other sources that it costs around $1000.00 for a three day ride after all the costs are added up. What a colossal waste of money!

I guess I will kep my attitude problem around for a few more years!


Staff member
So? If they ever mention being paid over again, you immediately file a greivance being sure to mention the three day ride that didn't change the numbers AND the fact that the center manager invalidated it.

This is a good thing. I think you are set for life!


Well-Known Member
What's the center manager saying? Is it that on road sups make 333.33 dollars a day , sure does not make sense to me. Of course I am a hourly, these standards and cost estimates are way, way over my head. Guessing that is why the union recognizes no work standards, unless you are totally screwing up out there any of these company three lettered reports are meaningless and probadly not cost effective.:wink:


Hey wornoutupser,you've been around a long time in here.If you are still filing for all those over9five grievances you used to post about,and punching out at 9PM every night must put you up to over $100,000 a year.The center manager can't invalidate the 3 day ride.
I suggest that maybe you and he don`t like each other.
I`m not sure what your complaint is.Is it not looking good on paper,or excessive overtime you are complaining about.
If its harassment,the 1-800 number would be an option,but I think a pow-wow with him would be in order instead.
Something about your post didnt ring true with me.
I may be wrong but you have more options than he does IMHO


Well-Known Member
A 3 day OJS is a 3-day OJS. There's a field in your DIAD for an OJS, and the initials of the supervisor performing the OJS. You can't "invalidate" that, it's a perm record in the board and to change it would be altering the document, moreover, any edit to that timecard is recorded. No one can make the record "go away" (or at least not the EDIT of the record if it did), even though most of you probably think you can. So now there is a new benchmark for your "best demonstrated" performance. If anyone wants you to run the route faster, you tell them to show you how, using the methods. That means no running, skipping lunch, etc.
Even though I'm in management, I have a problem with telling someone to do something I can't show them how to do myself. The way I was raised in this company was as an on-car sup, you become a subject matter expert first, run scratch on a few routes yourself, then go train.
As for the $1k, well, that's probably a little high but it's close, based on the supervisor's total compensation over 3 days, after you throw on benefits, 401k matching, pension contributions, MIP, and all the other things on top of salary.


Well-Known Member
Even though I'm in management, I have a problem with telling someone to do something I can't show them how to do myself.

I'm happy to finally hear a management person say this-it gives you even more credibility. Why can't management around the globe take this simple and basic approach and use it to at least start to fix the problem of overallowed. If the average of all drivers is 1 hour over everyday, doesn't a red flag come up somewhere in the greater Atlanta area? Do they just think that all us "thieves and thugs" are out to ruin and run down UPS?


Well-Known Member
Do they just think that all us "thieves and thugs" are out to ruin and run down UPS?

......actually the people in Atlanta are scared to death that we (the hourly) are doing the same thing they (Atlanta) are doing........lying, cheating and stealing.


Well-Known Member
......actually the people in Atlanta are scared to death that we (the hourly) are doing the same thing they (Atlanta) are doing........lying, cheating and stealing.

It isn't that people (hourly or mgmt) are thieves and thugs. 80% of the time I rode with someone I brought the overallowed down, through methods and common sense. 20% of the time I can't. But here's the thing. The standards aren't going to be met each and every day. Things happen. It's up to both mgmt and hourly to identify root causes of this and eliminate as many as possible. Remember. NORMAL effort under NORMAL conditions, following the METHODS. Traffic was backed up 1 hour because of an accident? You won't run scratch. That's not NORMAL (in most places). Usually there's a method problem.

And it's not always that the driver is going "slow" to "screw" the center. Sometimes there really is a time study problem. But those aren't as rampant as people think. And the fact that we average overallowed time is not a sign that the standard is wrong. It's more a sign that of our 90000 drivers, some of them are NOT following the methods every day. There are some characters out there who don't believe in them. Then there's dispatch, that's managements part, and as many drivers don't follow methods, there are sups who don't dispatch according to the way we've prescribed, either. Add all these up and there are a LOT of overallowed drivers out there. Do we just give up and write all this off? Add an hour to everyone's planned time to feel better? No. Without the bar being set at perfect methods, HOW WOULD WE KNOW THERE'S A PROBLEM TO FIX? Most of the frustration our drivers experience is that in some cases the management go about fixing those problems the wrong way. We're not perfect either. But we all should still strive to be.

I think I said this in an earlier post. The package division manager I support has a picture of two junked out vans growing weeds around them in his office. The old timers out there will recognize them as old REA vehicles. At one time, they were a bigger small parcel delivery company than we were, and now they're gone. The legend has it that their drivers could be found chatting up the warehouse and laughing at the UPSer who was so quick to get in and out of there. Here's a dirty secret about them most people don't know...their drivers were EXCEEDING the business plan they had.

I'll give everyone a for instance. I was new in a center, didn't know the area. I was out with a driver to do some safe work methods and learn the route so I knew the area. At about 18:45, we had 30 residential stops left (sound familiar?). Another driver on the adjacent route was finished. I had him meet us at the bottom of a V, imagine there were 2 condo developments at the tops of the V. I told the driver to give the other driver one development while we did the other, so we all get in same time. Driver says ok. They trade stops. We do both developments. We have 4 tires left over(?). As we're coming down one hill, the other driver is coming down the other one. Great.

But WE now proceed up HIS hill, not toward the center. "Why are we going up here?" Answer: "I didn't want to screw him with the tires." Huh? There are now 2 possibilities. 1) He took me for a ride. As I got to know him, I ruled out 1). So 2) is, everyone is working hard, and he truly didn't want to give the tires to his fellow driver. He was working hard, following the methods. So was the other driver. But now we spent 25 minutes on the road more than we needed to. That's where I learned that sometimes I was going to have to be the "bad guy", and some guys weren't going to like it. None of this stuff is in the contract. Was my driver wrong for keeping the tires? No. Next time I upset the other guy by giving him the tires, am I wrong? No, either.

Moreover, the reason the standards aren't the problem is that the business plan we present the analysts does not assume that all of our drivers are going to run scratch every day. That's why the business plan is broken down to elements center by center, and then the center manager breaks down the center to the 2 or 3 supervisor groups, and THOSE groups have to meet a certain performance goal overall, but it's generally not necessary for every driver to make scratch to hit that goal.


Well-Known Member
To scratch a lot of routes you must work unsafe skip lunch run ,jump,drive over the speed limit,bad drs etc……on and on.
If a person follows the methods you are probably going to be over allowed.