A liberal finally admits: abortion is murder!

[over9five]

Most couples say or think, "Let's make a baby".......not "Let's make a blastocyst"

I still believe life begins at conception and abortion is the killing of a human. JMO

Me too. And I don't believe in any exceptions.

No matter what happened to the poor woman, she is "inconvenienced" for 9 months only. Then she can give the baby up for adoption, and never see it again. No need to give the death penalty to the yet unborn child.

Murder avoided.

It is illegal to kill a one day old child. We make those laws (even those of us with dicks). There is no difference between murdering a one day old child and abortion.

 

[tourists24]

Speaking just for myself, I do not consider a blastocyst to be a baby, much less the equivalent of a human being with all the same rights and protections. A blastocyst is a potential human being however, and once again speaking just for myself, I would never make the decision to have an abortion simply for the sake of convenience. But if you've ever worked in an abortion clinic, or know someone who has, you realize that the vast majority of women who make that decision truly agonize over it. It's rarely, if ever, an easy choice to make and I agree with Sober that it should be entirely the decision of the woman involved. One dick = no vote.

Isnt a blastocyst considered to be early on? Very early isnt it? Even if it wasnt human at this point, at exactly what second does it become human?

You do bring up a good point in this Jones about women in the abortion clinics: If it is not a human being, then why would a woman agonize over it? If it isnt a baby, then it should be easy to get rid of it as easy as having a wart removed. It would be a relief to be rid of.

One dick=no vote? lol.... ok that's funny. Does bring a good twist though to be brought up in another thread.

 

[Catatonic]

Speaking just for myself ...

Finally, someone with the wisdom to know that's all they can do.

 

[Jones]

Isnt a blastocyst considered to be early on? Very early isnt it? Even if it wasnt human at this point, at exactly what second does it become human?

You do bring up a good point in this Jones about women in the abortion clinics: If it is not a human being, then why would a woman agonize over it? If it isnt a baby, then it should be easy to get rid of it as easy as having a wart removed. It would be a relief to be rid of.

One dick=no vote? lol.... ok that's funny. Does bring a good twist though to be brought up in another thread.

For what it's worth, I think that's the right question to ask.

 

[diesel96]

Speaking just for myself, I do not consider a blastocyst to be a baby, much less the equivalent of a human being with all the same rights and protections. A blastocyst is a potential human being however, and once again speaking just for myself, I would never make the decision to have an abortion simply for the sake of convenience. But if you've ever worked in an abortion clinic, or know someone who has, you realize that the vast majority of women who make that decision truly agonize over it. It's rarely, if ever, an easy choice to make and I agree with Sober that it should be entirely the decision of the woman involved. One dick = no vote.

This is the very reason I chose not to engage in The Abortion debate.....if we can't get passed the first issue of what to call or consider the contents of the women's womb then whats the purpose of continuing a dialog with those individuals. This only cements the arguement of sustaining the seperation of the church and state. Just another wrench thrown into the gears of the scientific community vs the religious far right.
For the record, I too don't believe in abortion, but I feel the option available for women under dire circumstances.....and lets not get started with the hypocrisies of fertility drugs .....and lets not get started with cutting baby mamma's welfare check after encouraging her to bring children into their poverty stricken world......

No matter what happened to the poor woman, she is "inconvenienced" for 9 months only. Then she can give the baby up for adoption, and never see it again. No need to give the death penalty to the yet unborn child.

Murder avoided.

It is illegal to kill a one day old child. We make those laws (even those of us with dicks). There is no difference between murdering a one day old child and abortion.

Over9five, don't expect an inconvienced mom to just sever ties with the natural bond developed between mother and baby as if their puppies up for adoption....thats something (us with d!cks) will never begin to comprehend.

 

[JimJimmyJames]

Even if it wasnt human at this point, at exactly what second does it become human?

Conception. What else could it be? Scientists know what it is, it is the rest of us who are arguing about it.

That being said, do we think it ok to kill people under certain circumstances? Of course we do. But which circumstances is where the argument begins.

Most of the time we believe it is permissable to kill in order to protect ourselves or others from a person(s) that has the intent to end our lives or cause us grave harm.

The problem with abortion is that the developing human being usually is not a threat to anyone. Thus we are killing an innocent. And when you extinguish an innocents life you have crossed over from simply killing someone to murdering them.

Ted Rall is stating in his article that it may be murder but it still must be allowed because the consequences of not allowing it would be too severe.

I appreciated his honesty in calling a spade, a spade.

 

[stevetheupsguy]

vs the religious far right.

Are you saying that only the far right are religious? That one could only be religious if they are Republican? That Republicans are the only ones going to Heaven?

 

[tieguy]

I believe he was a Christian and therefore it was his acceptance of Christ as his savior that would absolve him of his sins. ... just like you or I, assuming you are a Christian.

I always thought part of the absolution was a committment to try to sin no more. In his case he did his prayers with the knowledge that he would continue his sins on monday.

 

[tieguy]

I have to say I agree wholeheartedly with Sober's post. That being said, let me ask the qestion this way. If the tables were turned and it was us guys who could get pregnant would we want a choice?

Women already have a choice. Abstinence and birth control.

 

[tieguy]

So do you believe that a woman who was raped should be forced to carry the child to term and give birth to it?

A common arguement. Use the most extreme examples to justify providing everyone with the option of using abortions as a means of birth control.

The other angle then to argue would be that we should be able to wack the child that is going to be born with some defect.

Then take it to some countries where they all want sons and start wacking the daughters.

Don't like red heads wack them next.

Mixed race good god call the abortion doctor.

 

[soberups]

A common arguement. Use the most extreme examples to justify providing everyone with the option of using abortions as a means of birth control.

The other angle then to argue would be that we should be able to wack the child that is going to be born with some defect.

Then take it to some countries where they all want sons and start wacking the daughters.

Don't like red heads wack them next.

Mixed race good god call the abortion doctor.

You didnt answer the question, you merely responded with some "extreme examples" of your own.

So...I will ask again...do you feel that a woman who has been raped and becomes pregnant should be forced to carry the child to term?

 

[tourists24]

You didnt answer the question, you merely responded with some "extreme examples" of your own.

So...I will ask again...do you feel that a woman who has been raped and becomes pregnant should be forced to carry the child to term?

How many abortions are performed due to rape compared to abortions just for a means of birth control? Id say very low numbers.

No abortion for rape, sorry. You willing to kill a baby because you were put in a rough situation? It is a bad situation, but you want to kill that little baby just because you can? or feel you cant deal with the difficulty of having a rape baby? I have someone Id like you to meet that is very grateful you werent the woman making that decision in their case

 

[tieguy]

You didnt answer the question, you merely responded with some "extreme examples" of your own.

So...I will ask again...do you feel that a woman who has been raped and becomes pregnant should be forced to carry the child to term?

In the same way that you are forced to obey our laws and refrain from committing murder.

 

[diesel96]

Are you saying that only the far right are religious? That one could only be religious if they are Republican? That Republicans are the only ones going to Heaven?

Of course I'm not suggesting that, hence I use "far right"......Sorry you interpeted that post the wrong way......on the other hand, there are many who worship the Ann Coultor's of the world, that write books suggesting if your Democrat or Liberal/Progessive that you can't possibly be a good Christian.....Although, I think it's safe to say, the Republican Party does have a stranglehold on the hardline "far" religious right org's. Why ? Well, nevermind about the welfare of our poor and our sick, or the endless carnage and casualties of wars, and our Gov't bowing to the large Corperations, it's all about Rowe vs Wade and those dam Liberal Supreme Court Judges.

 

[Jones]

Conception. What else could it be? Scientists know what it is, it is the rest of us who are arguing about it.

Are you saying that scientists have declared that a blastocyst is a person?
Just be clear I think it is indisputably human, but then so are your hair and your fingernails. When Tourist said "Even if it wasnt human at this point, at exactly what second does it become human?", I interpreted that to mean when does it become a person. I think that's a very different question.

 

[soberups]

No abortion for rape, sorry. You willing to kill a baby because you were put in a rough situation? It is a bad situation, but you want to kill that little baby just because you can? or feel you cant deal with the difficulty of having a rape baby? I have someone Id like you to meet that is very grateful you werent the woman making that decision in their case

And I have someone I'd like you to meet that is very grateful that you werent the one in control of her reproductive choices a week or two after she was beaten up and gang-raped.

Its probably pretty easy---as a man---for you to sit there in the comfort of your living room and refer to forcible impregnation by rape as a "rough situation" or an "inconvenience" for someone else. Its an easy theory to have, especially since you will never have to personally face that situation in real life. If you ever did, I suspect that you might feel differently.

 

[tourists24]

And I have someone I'd like you to meet that is very grateful that you werent the one in control of her reproductive choices a week or two after she was beaten up and gang-raped.

Are they happier now that they have murdered someone? The person I know was a product of rape, and the mother went through nothing less than the woman you know. There is still a baby to think about

Its probably pretty easy---as a man---for you to sit there in the comfort of your living room and refer to forcible impregnation by rape as a "rough situation" or an "inconvenience" for someone else. Its an easy theory to have, especially since you will never have to personally face that situation in real life. If you ever did, I suspect that you might feel differently.

Just because men cant have children doesnt mean we dont care. That's unfair. It's bad enough we have no say whatsoever if a woman gets pregnant then wants to abort. Especially if the man is more than willing to take full responsibility for the upbringing of that child.

 

[stevetheupsguy]

You didnt answer the question, you merely responded with some "extreme examples" of your own.

So...I will ask again...do you feel that a woman who has been raped and becomes pregnant should be forced to carry the child to term?

Some people have faith and believe that God will make something good come of a miserable event. How do you know what will happen here in the long run? The child that is being killed had nothing to do with the rape, so why should, it, have to pay the death penalty, when it's the rapist that should be punished. Just trying to add another view, though from what I'm reading and gather from the tone of your posts, you are absolutely immovable on this subject.

I have dated a girl that is a child produced by rape. She was a normal, healthy person. Are you saying that she didn't deserve a chance at life? I have also been in a relationship where we had not one, but two unplanned pregnancies. These were both terminated because we were young and saw it as the only option, regrettably. I was also in a situation like T24 spoke of. My former wife was pregnant with our first child. She decided to abort that child. I totally disagreed with her, but couldn't do anything to stop her.

I know, I know, this still doesn't make me a woman. But it does give a bit more perspective. Since I've grown up, I've always been along the lines of "make your bed, sleep in it. I know it may seem rough, but I also have that faith, even when it comes down to rape, my own family included. JMHO, as always...............and peace be with you all.

 

[tieguy]

And I have someone I'd like you to meet that is very grateful that you werent the one in control of her reproductive choices a week or two after she was beaten up and gang-raped.

Its probably pretty easy---as a man---for you to sit there in the comfort of your living room and refer to forcible impregnation by rape as a "rough situation" or an "inconvenience" for someone else. Its an easy theory to have, especially since you will never have to personally face that situation in real life. If you ever did, I suspect that you might feel differently.

Without convictions you have no foundation. My convictions tell me that murder is wrong. Some can justify it for various reasons. Once you start the justification process it gets easier and easier to justify more of it.

 

[tieguy]

Are you saying that scientists have declared that a blastocyst is a person?
Just be clear I think it is indisputably human, but then so are your hair and your fingernails. When Tourist said "Even if it wasn't human at this point, at exactly what second does it become human?", I interpreted that to mean when does it become a person. I think that's a very different question.

Part of the process of justifying the taking of a life is to disassociate yourself from the thought process of it being a living person. Thus we conjure up scientific names for the life such as blastocyst to make is sound as if it is some type of unsightly growth rather then the a conceived life.

Luckily for you and others here who engaged in blastocystic mind processes someone allowed your birth to come to fruition thus affording you the opportunity to deny others the same right.