A liberal finally admits: abortion is murder!

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
Part of the process of justifying the taking of a life is to disassociate yourself from the thought process of it being a living person. Thus we conjure up scientific names for the life such as blastocyst to make is sound as if it is some type of unsightly growth rather then the a conceived life.

Luckily for you and others here who engaged in blastocystic mind processes someone allowed your birth to come to fruition thus affording you the opportunity to deny others the same right.
A baby doesn't appear at the moment of fertilization. Blastocyst is the medical term for the initial structure. If you looked at one under a microscope you wouldn't have a clue what it was unless someone told you. It's pretty clearly not a person.


Without convictions you have no foundation. My convictions tell me that [-]murder[/-] torture is wrong. Some can justify it for various reasons. Once you start the justification process it gets easier and easier to justify more of it.
Fixed it for ya :wink2:
 

JimJimmyJames

Big Time Feeder Driver
In the "person" vs. "human" debate, I think we should default to the "human" side. If we don't, than it starts to get easier and easier to justify the killing of other people we do not consider to be a "person", as we understand the term.

The debate over euthanasia comes to mind.

For my part, if I am allowed to vote on these issues (and thanks to the Supreme Court, which has consistently over the years been trying to subvert the legislative process, I am not allowed to), I vote for Life.
 
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pickup

Guest
After this debate winds down, maybe we can have a less controversial thread like "Whose god is better, yours or mine?"
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
After this debate winds down, maybe we can have a less controversial thread like "Whose god is better, yours or mine?"
It's probably best to let this one inch steadily down to the bottom of the page and then quietly disappear....
 

tieguy

Banned
Are you saying that scientists have declared that a [-]blastocyst[/-] [-]first trimester[/-]i[-]second trimester[/-] [-]late trimester[/-][-]quadraplegic[/-] [-]metally retarded [/-] child is a person?
Just be clear I think it is indisputably human, but then so are your hair and your fingernails. When Tourist said "Even if it wasnt human at this point, at exactly what second does it become human?", I interpreted that to mean when does it become a person. I think that's a very different question.

fixed it for ya jonesy:happy-very:
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
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pickup

Guest
I abstained from this thread with the exception of one previous post which Hoax is making me pay dearly for. But here I go again, everyone has made excellent points here , I see the validity in all the opinions and yet many of them are in direct contradiction to others. A very loaded debate, I think on that ,most of us can agree.

Perhaps, it is akin to the question of vegetarianism. Some people don't eat meat on the grounds that it is murder and inherently violent. Others argue that we were born to be meat eaters and point to scripture and to the four canine teeth in their jaws as proof we were designed to do so. All valid points.

I think that if many meat eaters were to visit slaughterhouses, their gut reactions might say differently than their opinions. That much being said, many vegetarians look to be in a varying states of very ill health, so that visual example seems to scream that they haven't quite figured it out yet either.

In terms of the abortion issue. Pro abortionists can visit the slaughterhouse so to speak by seeing the images that are out there on the web and perhaps their gut reactions might indicate to those who argue that the fetus isn't alive, that their beliefs on life are not what they are cracked up to be. . For those who argue, that women who are victims are rapes should not be allowed to have abortions: I would tend to believe if it were your daughter who were the victim of rape, your views might have a greater probability of changing as well .

As for me, hmmmm. I am pretty certain that abortion is murder and I won't seek these images on the net to confirm my certainties, wanna stay in denial. Does life begin at conception? Maybe maybe not, but at some point, there is life in there, in my opinion and probably a lot earlier than I would like to think , maybe up to the point of conception. Hey you can even argue, that masturbation is killing as those sperm had the potential for life. Just throwing that one out there, I believe the old testament had such prohibitions on this action, not by that term mind you.

So for the time being abortion is the law of the land, for better or worse. Many on the religious right are obviously against it. Also, I have visited many religious websites whose members hold this view and also many of them hold the view that the soul of the aborted child goes to heaven because he can not be held at fault for never having the valid chance of accepting Jesus. If true and by that standard of reasoning, one can argue that one should abort every child because he or she will go to heaven(what loving mother wouldn't want that?) . If the children were born, there would be obviously a greater chance , in the eyes of this reasoning, that they would go to hell as not all would make the decision to be saved (and what loving mother would want that?) Perhaps the theology is wrong and if so,to what degree? I'll just let that question hang without answering, partly because I can't .

I'll just close by saying may god help and bless us all (and not just americans)
 

Overpaid Union Thug

Well-Known Member
Whenever I'm around people at work that are discussing abortion I always mention a girl that I heard on the radio one time. She had survived an abortion and was grateful to be alive. She stressed that the key word there was "SURVIVED" and that in order to survive you have to have been alive first. So, abortion is murder.
 
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pickup

Guest
Big arrow up refreshed my memory. Do you notice how you don't see too many down's syndrome kids anymore? I used to see quite a few of them when I was younger.

What is happening now is that there is a known genetic marker for the disease that can be tested from the fluid that is taken from the amniotic fluid (amniocentosis??) while the rather young fetus is still in the womb. I know of someone who had the test done and found that this was indeed the case and proceeded with an abortion.

Yes, she could have brought the child to birth and then deposited it on the firehouse steps , essentially legally relinquishing it. (How does that work anyway? How do you explain to the state what happened to your kid whose birth was registered and yet he is no longer in your possession). If she had done that , those who scream that adoption is the solution would most likely not be the ones to chose that "damaged" child. Most likely that child would be a ward of the state.

Anyway, abortion was chosen in this case and I suspect that it is chosen in many cases today. Years ago, I don't believe this test existed. Hence, you see very few retarded children today and I believe many of the ones that are retarded is due to lack of oxygen issues at the time of birth.

Didn't post this for either side of the issue. It is what it is.
 

stevetheupsguy

sʇǝʌǝʇɥǝndsƃnʎ
Big arrow up refreshed my memory. Do you notice how you don't see too many down's syndrome kids anymore? I used to see quite a few of them when I was younger.

What is happening now is that there is a known genetic marker for the disease that can be tested from the fluid that is taken from the amniotic fluid (amniocentosis??) while the rather young fetus is still in the womb. I know of someone who had the test done and found that this was indeed the case and proceeded with an abortion.

Yes, she could have brought the child to birth and then deposited it on the firehouse steps , essentially legally relinquishing it. (How does that work anyway? How do you explain to the state what happened to your kid whose birth was registered and yet he is no longer in your possession). If she had done that , those who scream that adoption is the solution would most likely not be the ones to chose that "damaged" child. Most likely that child would be a ward of the state.

Anyway, abortion was chosen in this case and I suspect that it is chosen in many cases today. Years ago, I don't believe this test existed. Hence, you see very few retarded children today and I believe many of the ones that are retarded is due to lack of oxygen issues at the time of birth.

Didn't post this for either side of the issue. It is what it is.
Watch out for what you call damaged, pickup, for one man's trash, is another man's treasure. Who's to say what is "damaged" and what isn't? Beauty/IQ are in the eye of the beholder. Should we make a seperate section of the Earth for what we consider the "damaged wretches" of society? Who would be the one's to choose what is and what isn't "damaged"?

It's funny how we flawed humans pick and choose how we play God in our lives and the lives of others.

I highlighted your last phrase because it's not my favorite.
 
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pickup

Guest
Watch out for what you call damaged, pickup, for one man's trash, is another man's treasure. Who's to say what is "damaged" and what isn't? Beauty/IQ are in the eye of the beholder. Should we make a seperate section of the Earth for what we consider the "damaged wretches" of society? Who would be the one's to choose what is and what isn't "damaged"?

It's funny how we flawed humans pick and choose how we play God in our lives and the lives of others.

I highlighted your last phrase because it's not my favorite.

do you notice how I put the word "damaged" in quotes. And stephen, it was candid enough of you to post earlier abuot your experiences concerning this issue, I don't judge you for what you conveyed. It is not my job. But please, don't judge me for a story that I didn't contribute to making. And yes, sad to say that if a prospective couple looking for a child saw two in a room and one was a down's syndrome child and one was a "normal" child, which one do you think they would pick?

When you go to a kennel to pick out a dog, I am sure your heart would tell you to save them all, but your head says no. If you were presented with two dogs, a cute 1 year old frisky dog or a 5 year old dog with tumors along its body, which one are you going to pick?
 

stevetheupsguy

sʇǝʌǝʇɥǝndsƃnʎ
do you notice how I put the word "damaged" in quotes. And stephen, it was candid enough of you to post earlier abuot your experiences concerning this issue, I don't judge you for what you conveyed. It is not my job. But please, don't judge me for a story that I didn't contribute to making. And yes, sad to say that if a prospective couple looking for a child saw two in a room and one was a down's syndrome child and one was a "normal" child, which one do you think they would pick?

When you go to a kennel to pick out a dog, I am sure your heart would tell you to save them all, but your head says no. If you were presented with two dogs, a cute 1 year old frisky dog or a 5 year old dog with tumors along its body, which one are you going to pick?
There you go with the NORMAL or DOWNS SYNDROME scenario again. Not picking on you or judging you, my friend, just saying that you're using a poor choice of words. Who's to say that Downs isn't a normal set of circumstances for those individuals?

We have a 5 year old dog that has some weird growths, issues and is legally blind. We got her from a breeder and don't even think of bringing her back as damaged goods, or snuffing her out of existence.

walk away since this discussion is a no win situation and does not belong in the workplace. JMO



I would not call it my favorite but it is in my signature and within my ability to operate in the real worl, it defines the best approach to live in that real world.
I guess mine would be WHATEVER! No the way some say it including sucking of the teeth, but more along the lines of, it's out of my control.
 
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pickup

Guest
There you go with the NORMAL or DOWNS SYNDROME scenario again. Not picking on you or judging you, my friend, just saying that you're using a poor choice of words. Who's to say that Downs isn't a normal set of circumstances for those individuals?

We have a 5 year old dog that has some weird growths, issues and is legally blind. We got her from a breeder and don't even think of bringing her back as damaged goods, or snuffing her out of existence. .

Okay with the dog, yeah I know you love him. but let ask you this, if you had went to the breeder and he was already like that when you first went to get him years ago, would you have backed out? Be honest.

Okay, now I am going to be picky like stug has been, just to show him how annoying it can be :: What's this with a breeder? Don't you know that there are plenty of dogs waiting to be adopted in a kennel? No need for a breeder unless you are not happy with those" less than ordinary"(do you like that term?) dogs in the slammer. (your one out is allergy issues in this one)
 
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tourists24

Well-Known Member
walk away since this discussion is a no win situation and does not belong in the workplace. JMO
I have no problem getting in these no win discussions. First off, this thread was put here hoping for discussion. If it's too controversial for an individual, then dont participate.

I approach the abortion discussion in a very simple way. First, most people already have their opinion set and what you say isnt going to change their mind. If the topic is on the table, I give my point of view. In the case of abortion I get to the bottom line.... If you believe that murder is ok in some cases, then you believe in abortion... If you believe murder is wrong, then you are anti abortion. Some people dont like hearing it, but it really is that simple
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
Whenever I'm around people at work that are discussing abortion I always

walk away since this discussion is a no win situation and does not belong in the workplace. JMO

I have no problem getting in these no win discussions. First off, this thread was put here hoping for discussion. If it's too controversial for an individual, then dont participate.

Agreed on BC ... my point, which you did not catch, was that this topic should not be discussed in the workplace. and again JMO.
 
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Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
I have no problem getting in these no win discussions. First off, this thread was put here hoping for discussion. If it's too controversial for an individual, then dont participate.

I approach the abortion discussion in a very simple way. First, most people already have their opinion set and what you say isnt going to change their mind. If the topic is on the table, I give my point of view. In the case of abortion I get to the bottom line.... If you believe that murder is ok in some cases, then you believe in abortion... If you believe murder is wrong, then you are anti abortion. Some people dont like hearing it, but it really is that simple
Depending, of course, on your definition of murder...
 
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