america's new low wage economy

realbrown1

Annoy a liberal today. Hit them with facts.
they will negotiate your wages downward to make themselves more profitable. if there is a high supply of labor to do a low skilled job like a UPS driver, and there are a lot of other low paying jobs, it will create downward pressure on your wages. thats the market.
This so called "low skill" job that you got fired from and came on here to bitch about being let go from this "low skilled" job is truly amazing. It's like you are talking out of both sides of your face right now.

Too bad you feel this way because as a low skilled worker, I am making about $35 per hour now and will make over $37 the last year of the contract. Not to mention the about $10 per hour UPS pays for my family's health care insurance and approximately $10 per hour UPS puts into my pension fund.

Face it rickyb, you came up goose eggs, and now you are bitter about it.
 

realbrown1

Annoy a liberal today. Hit them with facts.
Though at that point one would have little to no reason to work at UPS and jump through all the seniority hoops when they can go to FedEx and go full-time right away, not pay union dues, plus have generally lighter packages and fewer stops.
What do you mean? No potterybarn gynormus boxes? No restoration hardware 12 foot long rugs? Where do I sign up?
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
This so called "low skill" job that you got fired from and came on here to bitch about being let go from this "low skilled" job is truly amazing. It's like you are talking out of both sides of your face right now.

Too bad you feel this way because as a low skilled worker, I am making about $35 per hour now and will make over $37 the last year of the contract. Not to mention the about $10 per hour UPS pays for my family's health care insurance and approximately $10 per hour UPS puts into my pension fund.

Face it rickyb, you came up goose eggs, and now you are bitter about it.

settle down beavis.

this post was originally about how america economy is going to turn from a middle class manufacturing economy, to a low skilled service sector economy. someone posted about working for ups and how it doesnt affect them and i said it does....
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
they also cut wages at the domestic auto makers for new hires in half last 6 years. so new hires top out around $17 or something per hour instead of $30.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
they also cut wages at the domestic auto makers for new hires in half last 6 years. so new hires top out around $17 or something per hour instead of $30.

Yes, that is true. Over the last couple of decades the Middle Class has maintained itself not so much from growth in salary and wages but in the growth of debt. Although in 2008' and continuing that took a hit and thus our economic woes. Any discussion of wages and the Middle Class often takes on a very blue collar feel to it but white collar workers who often are salaried are taking a hit as well. IMO this is not a purely union or blue collar issue but a problem all across the entire economic spectrum.

Manufacturing, mostly on a small and medium scale serving local and regional markets was a vital backbone in what became the American Middle Class. Longterm careers, apprentice programs, (I'm a product of a machinist apprentice program) and working from the ground up for both blue and white collar made it possible for a high school grad. to having a positive and productive life. Even the high school dropout whose choice was discouraged could very often get a good paying job. Once these small and medium players were crushed, mostly as a result of topdown federal economic policy to benefit national and multi-national players, seems to me the death bells for the middle class began to toll. Even we at UPS have greatly benefited from this condition as local and regional produced goods don't require the level of logistics that large scale national and mulit-national interests do.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
Yes, that is true. Over the last couple of decades the Middle Class has maintained itself not so much from growth in salary and wages but in the growth of debt. Although in 2008' and continuing that took a hit and thus our economic woes. Any discussion of wages and the Middle Class often takes on a very blue collar feel to it but white collar workers who often are salaried are taking a hit as well. IMO this is not a purely union or blue collar issue but a problem all across the entire economic spectrum.

Manufacturing, mostly on a small and medium scale serving local and regional markets was a vital backbone in what became the American Middle Class. Longterm careers, apprentice programs, (I'm a product of a machinist apprentice program) and working from the ground up for both blue and white collar made it possible for a high school grad. to having a positive and productive life. Even the high school dropout whose choice was discouraged could very often get a good paying job. Once these small and medium players were crushed, mostly as a result of topdown federal economic policy to benefit national and multi-national players, seems to me the death bells for the middle class began to toll. Even we at UPS have greatly benefited from this condition as local and regional produced goods don't require the level of logistics that large scale national and mulit-national interests do.

i completely agree with you. i saw a video where even the rich were taking a hit in wages. it was just the people at the very top who were benefitting.

 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
it was just the people at the very top who were benefitting.

I find for the most part that the people at the top who do in fact benefit are more often than not very well connected to gov't and the benefits it bestows. I differ on lumping ALL RICH into the same class as not all so directly benefit from gov't. I would contend to achieve super wealth status is all but impossible outside a very cozy connection to an interventionist state.

Many so-called rich, (define rich BTW) who may own small or medium size businesses are JUST AS MUCH AT RISK, maybe more so, from the State on behalf of the Super connected rich as any of us are from having our own wealth exploited away by these same political and economic forces.

In our own UPS world, how does the draconian safety rules imposed on conveyor equipment benefit UPS and FedEx while acting as a huge cost barrier to potential upstart competition who might want to enter the same market? A lot of the guarding rules for conveyors is pure BS and does nothing for safety yet it raises the cost if one has to build all new infrastructure to enter the game as competitor. Thus how the State and it's crony capitalists act to crush a real free market. I never take serious the whining and crying of UPS about OSHA when I know they more often than not cry, "please don't throw me in the briar patch!"

You think worker own cooperatives aren't more available because they fail or is it because regulation, especially tax law and lending law make the hurdles much larger as opposed to a conventional shareholder corp. with Wallstreet as the true middle man? Why did even UPS, an employee owned company also caved in to the economic demands of Wall Street? How many UPSers like me regret that day we went public even though that single action greatly increased our net worth?

And you didn't think worker cooperatives and worker own companies weren't Free Market? Did you ever consider who is defining the term and how they benefit through language propaganda and not by action?
;)
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
I find for the most part that the people at the top who do in fact benefit are more often than not very well connected to gov't and the benefits it bestows. I differ on lumping ALL RICH into the same class as not all so directly benefit from gov't. I would contend to achieve super wealth status is all but impossible outside a very cozy connection to an interventionist state.

Many so-called rich, (define rich BTW) who may own small or medium size businesses are JUST AS MUCH AT RISK, maybe more so, from the State on behalf of the Super connected rich as any of us are from having our own wealth exploited away by these same political and economic forces.

In our own UPS world, how does the draconian safety rules imposed on conveyor equipment benefit UPS and FedEx while acting as a huge cost barrier to potential upstart competition who might want to enter the same market? A lot of the guarding rules for conveyors is pure BS and does nothing for safety yet it raises the cost if one has to build all new infrastructure to enter the game as competitor. Thus how the State and it's crony capitalists act to crush a real free market. I never take serious the whining and crying of UPS about OSHA when I know they more often than not cry, "please don't throw me in the briar patch!"

You think worker own cooperatives aren't more available because they fail or is it because regulation, especially tax law and lending law make the hurdles much larger as opposed to a conventional shareholder corp. with Wallstreet as the true middle man? Why did even UPS, an employee owned company also caved in to the economic demands of Wall Street? How many UPSers like me regret that day we went public even though that single action greatly increased our net worth?

And you didn't think worker cooperatives and worker own companies weren't Free Market? Did you ever consider who is defining the term and how they benefit through language propaganda and not by action?
;)

yea i heard some banks wont lend to worker cooperatives because its ideological. they dont want a democratic economic system to succeed. so funding is an issue.

one of the top schools in america did a study and i think they determined that the bottom 70% of the population has no influence on government policy.

thats interesting about the conveyor belt restrictions.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
'X' Marks The Spot - Wages Started Losing When The Dollar Delinked From Gold In 1971 | Zero Hedge

-wg3gLC2CFyQoX6i0rqIWUQF0BkAexAKR2XsrW0WdmTlyeudZrlvMunUqKlKzSBSryPisSwhOEM_UBU30WbO1fg5cXIaai07caBrRDAn_4Xi75KLKIRD3CSIRh58qoDokEsuqyizi40u4_LSSGy39tfsU5GfKVs4-oQ=s0-d-e1-ft


The economist talked of the figure as a sort of treasure map, which would lead us to the insight. “X” marks the spot. Dig here.



This figure tells three stories.



First, we see two distinct historic periods since World War II. In the first period, workers shared the gains from productivity. In the later period, a generation of workers gained little, even as productivity continued to rise.



The second message is the very abrupt transition from the post-war historic period to the current one. Something happened in the mid-70’s to de-couple wages from productivity gains.



The third message is that workers’ wages – accounting for inflation and all the lower prices from cheap imported goods – would be double what they are now, if workers still took their share of gains in productivity.



[…]



This de-coupling of wages from productivity has drawn a trillion dollars out of the labor share of GDP
 

olroadbeech

Happy Verified UPSer
Our much-touted service economy will become a “servant” economy. Debt-laden 20-something college graduates will become 30- and 40-somethings, still juggling dead-end jobs. Personal dignity will go the way of decent pay. Life at work for most Americans will return to what it was before the New Deal – insecure, underpaid and subject to the daily humiliations of an economy managed to benefit of the rich and powerful.

The core problem, argues Faux, is not that we don’t know wha to do. The main elements of a high wage strategy—re-directing capital from short-term speculation to long term investment and sharing the returns to rising productivity more broadly—are clear. But the influence of the richest “one percent” has blocked government’s capacity to shape our common future, no matter which party is in power.
The writing has been on the wall for the last 20 plus years. all my grown children and their spouses are all working FT jobs plus all the OT they can beg for and they are still living paycheck to paycheck. It's scary.

I don't know what we can do for them. The American Dream is out of reach for most young people. We thought about selling our home for 500k in Cali and buying 40 acres up in Idaho or Montana and moving the whole family up there and give each kid 5 acres to build a home on. Maybe if we could help them with their homes they would be better off than treading water for the rest of their lives.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
The writing has been on the wall for the last 20 plus years. all my grown children and their spouses are all working FT jobs plus all the OT they can beg for and they are still living paycheck to paycheck. It's scary.

I don't know what we can do for them. The American Dream is out of reach for most young people. We thought about selling our home for 500k in Cali and buying 40 acres up in Idaho or Montana and moving the whole family up there and give each kid 5 acres to build a home on. Maybe if we could help them with their homes they would be better off than treading water for the rest of their lives.
i cant say what you should do. but that was a great post.

but i know i will probably have 1 kid max.

i guess dont eat out as much. if im gonna buy another car, i buy it used at the local repo place and one with a bit of body damage on it. pay off the credit card every month. maybe cut down on garbage like snacks and especially processed meats. kinda off topic but one of the things i learned about recently was i was overspending on cereals. its cheaper / healthier just to get the generic whole grain whole wheat bran flakes, and mix in real fruit with it, instead of buying kashi or whatever with the cancer causing added sugars. up here we have winners for clothing, down there i know you guys got Ross which has discount nike and all that.

at one of my jobs, 1 of the guys bought a new nissan maxima, doesnt even have the cash to buy it out right, and i think it cost him 40,000 initially but it will probably be much more when he pays it off 7 years from now. another guy bought a new accord. i think its a big mistake. i think you can get away with a hatchback like the honda fit.

some other things are simple like using the library instead of buying books / movies.

i was living in a dive of a 1 bedroom basement, i was earning $25/hr full time, and without spending anything going out, i was saving about $1000 a month or 1/3 of my after tax income. it was very ho hum.

the local credit union offers much cheaper banking than the commercial banks.

none of these are fixes, they are just temporary solutions. things will continue to get worse as time goes on.

theres alot of things wrong with the economy, its not a simple solution like "getting the government off our backs". i have a feeling with global warming its a systemic problem. i always say we need a revolution. i think ultimately people are gonna have to get politically involved again.
 

Star B

White Lightening
people won't get involved until their facebook and youtube gets shut down by the government. the past few generations think that getting involved means clicking 'like'. just like how they have 3000 million "friends"
 
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