Another example of Central States mismanagement

[Bill]

.......participants ......administration fees........ assets (in millions)
2001.....137,539....................$45.7 million...............$603
2002.....131,716......................46.5..........................428
2003.....124,805......................55.............................433
2004.....124,405......................59.8..........................577
2005.....116,544......................61.............................720

Since 2001, the participants in Central States health and welfare fund has dropped by 21,000 or 15%. At the same time, administration fees has risen by 33%. Correct me if I am wrong, but if there are less people in the fund, shouldn't the fees go down as well. Obviously there are less people to administer to. In the annual report from 2005, schedule H, line i, the administration fees are broken down as such:
professional fees...............$278,623
investment advisory...........$357,687
OTHER.........................$61,434,532
Isn't it strange that 98.9% of the administration fees are not explained. Are they trying to hide the fact where some of this money really goes? Are the Teamsters getting a kickback and using the excuse of administration fees? I know that I am not the only one that finds this highly peculiar.

 

[705red]

.......participants ......administration fees........ assets (in millions)
2001.....137,539....................$45.7 million...............$603
2002.....131,716......................46.5..........................428
2003.....124,805......................55.............................433
2004.....124,405......................59.8..........................577
2005.....116,544......................61.............................720

Since 2001, the participants in Central States health and welfare fund has dropped by 21,000 or 15%. At the same time, administration fees has risen by 33%. Correct me if I am wrong, but if there are less people in the fund, shouldn't the fees go down as well. Obviously there are less people to administer to. In the annual report from 2005, schedule H, line i, the administration fees are broken down as such:
professional fees...............$278,623
investment advisory...........$357,687
OTHER.........................$61,434,532
Isn't it strange that 98.9% of the administration fees are not explained. Are they trying to hide the fact where some of this money really goes? Are the Teamsters getting a kickback and using the excuse of administration fees? I know that I am not the only one that finds this highly peculiar.

Ifyou had any proof of the teamsters taking kickbacks from the funds you would have shown them to us by now. What you say you go back to the thread" wheres the money coming from apwa" and explain where its coming from instead of coming here and posting the same bs and starting new threads that you wont answer the questions when they get asked!

 

[area43]

OOOOOOHHHHHH Boy! Here we go again folks, LOL

 

[rebel]

get your popcorn

 

[705red]

get your popcorn

Relax guys no need to get worked up, we all know this outcome already. E79 posts his bs every sunday, tucks tail, dodges questions, spews more unfounded lies, and comes back next sunday to not answer the questions, and spew more lies. Its his style, i at least respect someone who can say you know i dont know that answer.

 

[govols019]

Be kind of hard for the Teamsters to be stealing money from CS when they have no control over it.

 

[sawdusttv]

Be kind of hard for the Teamsters to be stealing money from CS when they have no control over it.

How much control the teamsters have over CS is very much in question. I have been told that CS was started by the teamsters and that under all the smoke sceens they are one in the same.
I don't know this for a fact, but I keep hearing things to that affect.
Who really knows??????

 

[Bill]

Ifyou had any proof of the teamsters taking kickbacks from the funds you would have shown them to us by now. What you say you go back to the thread" wheres the money coming from apwa" and explain where its coming from instead of coming here and posting the same bs and starting new threads that you wont answer the questions when they get asked!

I posed a question as to what the other administration are. If you walked into a supermarket and read that 98.9% of the ingredients in any product were labled as "other", would you buy it? I doubt it. You would want to know what the other ingredients are.

 

[area43]

The CS plan is a total disaster, I assume red that you are in the 401k. Lets say that UPS and the Teamster were 2 funds that were added. UPS is in the black(financially) and the Teamsters are in the red(finacially). Would you keep your balance and future contributions going unto the bankrupt fund or would you pull out and go into another more profitable fund. I believe you would pull out and go to the better fund. It is that simple. Why stay in a poor investment fund and keep taking hits to the face. I wish that you could see that UPS is actually looking out for you. By pulling out or starting another fund would only help you and also help UPS, because whats good for UPS is good for us. Dont you see the train coming. Cs is just like social security, more people and more people are drawing on it and less and less people are contributing. The government, just like the teamsters are going to have to keep raising the age of retirement and decrease the monthly payments to keep up. What both the govenment and Teamsters wont tell you is that they would rather have you die, than make payments to you.

UPS must remain healthy. Lest we forget, the Teamsters are like a leech(Im mean this in a respectful way). A Leech attaches itself to a producer and lives of them. The Leech though is very helpful, when someone has an injury and swelling persist it can attach itself and lessen the swelling. In relation to the Teamsters, they cannot live without UPS if UPS leaves the cs plan it would be in a world of hurt. Its smart business sense for UPS to leave Central States. Its just a bad investment. Dont forget, the whole purpose of a company is to make money and also make smart business decisions.

In closing, I know Ill be labeled cold and heartless, what about all the other non ups retirees. They ll be allright. They have social security, a teamsters partial retirement, maybe some 401k, inheritance,kids are grown, definetly not a mortgage and if they do, its their own darn fault and no car payment. Poor planning on their part dosent constitute an emergency on my part or UPS s part for that matter. That brings up another question should UPS compensate for the choices we make. Thats another topic. If you call me non compasionate, thats fine, but you are tooo. So what you are saying, lets keep funding a broke system because we want to be caring and compastionate. Why stop there, lets just create a retirement fund for all the orphants,illegal aliens, all the starving people of the world,etc, etc. My point is I would LOVE to do all that, but there is only so much money to go around, unfortunately. We must prioritize. I first must look out for my families welfare and future. If doing so makes me selfish, than so be it.

 

[tieguy]

Be kind of hard for the Teamsters to be stealing money from CS when they have no control over it.

I don't know about that . teamsters have had a long love affair with interest free, no payback pension fund loans.

 

[705red]

I posed a question as to what the other administration are. If you walked into a supermarket and read that 98.9% of the ingredients in any product were labled as "other", would you buy it? I doubt it. You would want to know what the other ingredients are.

If you had proof you would have shownit! If the teamsters were stealing now from it they would be impriosoned for it, at least brought up on charges for it. That fund is so closely watched by the government it would be impossible to stael from, so unless you have proof stop throwing out slanderous statements, and answer the original question. Wheres the apwa's money coming from?

 

[705red]

The CS plan is a total disaster, I assume red that you are in the 401k. Lets say that UPS and the Teamster were 2 funds that were added. UPS is in the black(financially) and the Teamsters are in the red(finacially). Would you keep your balance and future contributions going unto the bankrupt fund or would you pull out and go into another more profitable fund. I believe you would pull out and go to the better fund. It is that simple. Why stay in a poor investment fund and keep taking hits to the face. I wish that you could see that UPS is actually looking out for you. By pulling out or starting another fund would only help you and also help UPS, because whats good for UPS is good for us. Dont you see the train coming. Cs is just like social security, more people and more people are drawing on it and less and less people are contributing. The government, just like the teamsters are going to have to keep raising the age of retirement and decrease the monthly payments to keep up. What both the govenment and Teamsters wont tell you is that they would rather have you die, than make payments to you.

UPS must remain healthy. Lest we forget, the Teamsters are like a leech(Im mean this in a respectful way). A Leech attaches itself to a producer and lives of them. The Leech though is very helpful, when someone has an injury and swelling persist it can attach itself and lessen the swelling. In relation to the Teamsters, they cannot live without UPS if UPS leaves the cs plan it would be in a world of hurt. Its smart business sense for UPS to leave Central States. Its just a bad investment. Dont forget, the whole purpose of a company is to make money and also make smart business decisions.

In closing, I know Ill be labeled cold and heartless, what about all the other non ups retirees. They ll be allright. They have social security, a teamsters partial retirement, maybe some 401k, inheritance,kids are grown, definetly not a mortgage and if they do, its their own darn fault and no car payment. Poor planning on their part dosent constitute an emergency on my part or UPS s part for that matter. That brings up another question should UPS compensate for the choices we make. Thats another topic. If you call me non compasionate, thats fine, but you are tooo. So what you are saying, lets keep funding a broke system because we want to be caring and compastionate. Why stop there, lets just create a retirement fund for all the orphants,illegal aliens, all the starving people of the world,etc, etc. My point is I would LOVE to do all that, but there is only so much money to go around, unfortunately. We must prioritize. I first must look out for my families welfare and future. If doing so makes me selfish, than so be it.

Area very well said! Im not for people staying in the cs, however i am concerned over if ups controlls it as a single employer. I would be more interested in seeing a multiple employer like was in a previous thread, yellow, abf and ups that i could consider. Ups does not do anything without benefiting themselves over the long haul, and i have been trying to think what some of the reasons could be ans truthfully some of them are pretty scarey.

We have to find a fix, and if ups, yellow andabf buy out the retirees should be ok seeing the fund will be maxed out basically. But what happens to 15, 20, 25, and 30 year upsers where will those pensions get paid from? Cs or will ups allow them to come into the newly created fund, and will it be prorated for all years of service or just what you have acrued since the formation of the new fund? That all has to play in our minds. Overall a great point of view minus the leech remarks, great post!

 

[705red]

I don't know about that . teamsters have had a long love affair with interest free, no payback pension fund loans.

How long ago tie?

 

[mittam]

Though teamster diehards will not accept it the monies for the APWA come from those of us who have donated to them so they can be on the road each weekend. You people may not think so but that is where it comes from.

 

[area43]

.......participants ......administration fees........ assets (in millions)
2001.....137,539....................$45.7 million...............$603
2002.....131,716......................46.5..........................428
2003.....124,805......................55.............................433
2004.....124,405......................59.8..........................577
2005.....116,544......................61.............................720

Since 2001, the participants in Central States health and welfare fund has dropped by 21,000 or 15%. At the same time, administration fees has risen by 33%. Correct me if I am wrong, but if there are less people in the fund, shouldn't the fees go down as well. Obviously there are less people to administer to. In the annual report from 2005, schedule H, line i, the administration fees are broken down as such:
professional fees...............$278,623
investment advisory...........$357,687
OTHER.........................$61,434,532
Isn't it strange that 98.9% of the administration fees are not explained. Are they trying to hide the fact where some of this money really goes? Are the Teamsters getting a kickback and using the excuse of administration fees? I know that I am not the only one that finds this highly peculiar.

Boy! If these figures are true, we are difinetly getting hosed by the Teamsters. Folks were not living in the stone age where everything is done on stone tablets. This is the 21 century, If its anything like my 401k, the last I heard checking your balance,changing contributions or funds was free of charge. Just by a click of the mouse or a few key board depressions usually gets the admin work done. Absolutely, theres a little more to it than that , but come on folks 61 + million dollars. Eng 79 you are right, this is flat out robbery. ) :

 

[pkgdriver]

Boy! If these figures are true, we are difinetly getting hosed by the Teamsters. Folks were not living in the stone age where everything is done on stone tablets. This is the 21 century, If its anything like my 401k, the last I heard checking your balance,changing contributions or funds was free of charge. Just by a click of the mouse or a few key board depressions usually gets the admin work done. Absolutely, theres a little more to it than that , but come on folks 61 + million dollars. Eng 79 you are right, this is flat out robbery. ) :

yep

 

[area43]

Area very well said! Im not for people staying in the cs, however i am concerned over if ups controlls it as a single employer. I would be more interested in seeing a multiple employer like was in a previous thread, yellow, abf and ups that i could consider. Ups does not do anything without benefiting themselves over the long haul, and i have been trying to think what some of the reasons could be ans truthfully some of them are pretty scarey.

We have to find a fix, and if ups, yellow andabf buy out the retirees should be ok seeing the fund will be maxed out basically. But what happens to 15, 20, 25, and 30 year upsers where will those pensions get paid from? Cs or will ups allow them to come into the newly created fund, and will it be prorated for all years of service or just what you have acrued since the formation of the new fund? That all has to play in our minds. Overall a great point of view minus the leech remarks, great post!

Thanks Red for the compliment. I agree with you red on the fact we should not just b*tch about a problem but try and find real solutions to the problem. First off, "Multiple Employer fund", Oh Bannas, I just cringe when I hear those 3 little words. I believe the phrase should be band from the human dictionary and thrown into the firery pit of hell. Also, Who ever came up with that idea should be thrown in there tooo. M.E.friend. is a failed way of doing retirements. Red, havent you read in the papers of all those failed plans. I m surprised that you would even consider attempting another one(I say this with all do respect). We first have to get that bad idea(M.E.friend.) out of our head and then we can move on.

The biggest problem with the MEF is that it takes away the basic individual freedom of the employee. It puts your retirement at the hands of another. I believe the teamsters are very well aware of this. Have you ever heard of the "Golden Rule". He who has the gold makes the rules. The teamster know that by controlling your pension that they have control over you. Is it really our money? The money, UPS gives the teamsters. This is my analogy(it pertains to the workers that are working now at ups). Lets say I gave you 20 dollars, but when I gave it to you I said look but dont touch, Its yours but you cant have it, yet. Then I take your 20 and throw it into a bucket, and let a bunch of strangers have at it. In the meantime your working your ass off, while they are enjoying the fruits of your labor. Then when you finish your 25, 30,35,or40 years(or whatever) and are waiting at the door for your 20 I would say"Your lucky". I have it but Im only going to give you a dollar each year for the next 20 years. At least I hope I can(fingers crossed). Its a little bit rough analogy but I believe it brings my point home.

The MEP is the total opposite of what our founding fathers had intended this great country to be. The pursuit of life, liberty and individual economic security(something to that nature).

UPS, what if they took over the pension. I look at their track record over the last 100 years and its pretty impressive. Red, any time you want to change something or anything for that matter an element of risk will always be involved. The unknown is scrary, especially when it deals with your way of life. Most of us do not like to come out of our comfort zone. We would rather sit back and let things stay as they are-rather it be good or bad. UPS, controlling the pension, I personally will say, yes, but with caution. Red, we really dont have much choice on the matter, our back is against the wall. Who knows maybe will be presently surprised.

Sorry, Im not a big fan of long post. This is my last and final point. Ill try and make it brief. The last,best and final option. Have the pension go to each employee personally. An a account with your name and your name only. It would be like a 401k or it could be the 401k. Just think Red, its your own money, invest as YOU please. YOU have total control of your destiny. That would be great. I get all excited just thinking about it. Thats how I believe all pensions should be handled. Quit,get fired,company goes out business you will still have your money. Red,I might be unclear on this but I believe that you took back your local and turned it around. I honestly believe thats what needs to be done here. Take back our hard earned pension and give it back to the individual masses. A pipe dream, could very well be, but the thought of it is surely nice. Take care my friend. Area 43 out. ( :

.

 

[JonFrum]

Ingredients: Sugar, Salt, H2O, MSG, Red Dye #7, Polysorbate 80 . . .

I posed a question as to what the other administration are. If you walked into a supermarket and read that 98.9% of the ingredients in any product were labled as "other", would you buy it? I doubt it. You would want to know what the other ingredients are.

Engineer 79,
This page has links to the last twelve years of blank Form 5500s and Instructions. Dowload whatever year you want and read the instructions for the Line Items you are interested in. . . .
http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/5500main.html

For example, the 64-page 2006 Form 5500 Instructions in Adobe PDF format is here. . . .
http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/pdf/2006-5500inst.pdf

Schedule H Line 2i(4) "Other" expenses are listed on page 42 (quoted below). . . .

Instructions for Schedule H (Form 5500):

"Line 2i. Report all administrative expenses (by specified category) paid by or charged to the plan, including those that were not subtracted from the gross income of CCTs, PSAs, MTIAs, and 103-12 IEs in determining their net investment gain(s) or loss(es). Expenses incurred in the general operations of the plan are classified as administrative expenses.

Line 2i(1). Include the total fees paid (or in the case of accrual basis plans costs incurred during the plan year but not paid as of the end of the plan year) by the plan for outside accounting, actuarial, legal, and valuation/appraisal services. Include fees for the annual audit of the plan by an independent qualified public accountant; for payroll audits; for accounting/ bookkeeping services; for actuarial services rendered to the plan, and to a lawyer for rendering legal opinions, litigation, and advice (but not for providing legal services as a benefit to plan participants). Include the fee(s) for valuations or appraisals to determine the cost, quality, or value of an item such as real property, personal property (gemstones, coins, etc.), and for valuations of closely held securities for which there is no ready market. Do not include amounts paid to plan employees to perform bookkeeping/accounting functions that should be included in 2i(4).

Line 2i(2). Enter the total fees paid (or in the case of accrual basis plans, costs incurred during the plan year but not paid as of the end of the plan year) to a contract administrator for performing administrative services for the plan. For purposes of the return/report, a contract administrator is any individual, partnership or corporation, responsible for managing the clerical operations (e.g., handling membership rosters, claims payments, maintaining books and records) of the plan on a contractual basis. Do not include salaried staff or employees of the plan or banks or insurance carriers.

Line 2i(3). Enter the total fees paid (or in the case of accrual basis plans, costs incurred during the plan year but not paid as of the end of the plan year) to an individual, partnership or corporation (or other person) for advice to the plan relating to its investment portfolio. These may include fees paid to manage the plan’s investments, fees for specific advice on a particular investment, and fees for the evaluation of the plan’s investment performance.

Line 2i(4). Other expenses are those that cannot be included in 2i(1) through 2i(3). These may include plan expenditures such as salaries and other compensation and allowances (e.g., payment of premiums to provide health insurance benefits to plan employees), expenses for office supplies and equipment, cars, telephone, postage, rent, expenses associated with the ownership of a building used in the operation of the plan, all miscellaneous expenses and trustees’ fees and reimbursement of expenses associated with trustees such as lost time, seminars, travel, meetings, etc."

 

[705red]

Thanks Red for the compliment. I agree with you red on the fact we should not just b*tch about a problem but try and find real solutions to the problem. First off, "Multiple Employer fund", Oh Bannas, I just cringe when I hear those 3 little words. I believe the phrase should be band from the human dictionary and thrown into the firery pit of hell. Also, Who ever came up with that idea should be thrown in there tooo. M.E.friend. is a failed way of doing retirements. Red, havent you read in the papers of all those failed plans. I m surprised that you would even consider attempting another one(I say this with all do respect). We first have to get that bad idea(M.E.friend.) out of our head and then we can move on.

The biggest problem with the MEF is that it takes away the basic individual freedom of the employee. It puts your retirement at the hands of another. I believe the teamsters are very well aware of this. Have you ever heard of the "Golden Rule". He who has the gold makes the rules. The teamster know that by controlling your pension that they have control over you. Is it really our money? The money, UPS gives the teamsters. This is my analogy(it pertains to the workers that are working now at ups). Lets say I gave you 20 dollars, but when I gave it to you I said look but dont touch, Its yours but you cant have it, yet. Then I take your 20 and throw it into a bucket, and let a bunch of strangers have at it. In the meantime your working your ass off, while they are enjoying the fruits of your labor. Then when you finish your 25, 30,35,or40 years(or whatever) and are waiting at the door for your 20 I would say"Your lucky". I have it but Im only going to give you a dollar each year for the next 20 years. At least I hope I can(fingers crossed). Its a little bit rough analogy but I believe it brings my point home.

The MEP is the total opposite of what our founding fathers had intended this great country to be. The pursuit of life, liberty and individual economic security(something to that nature).

UPS, what if they took over the pension. I look at their track record over the last 100 years and its pretty impressive. Red, any time you want to change something or anything for that matter an element of risk will always be involved. The unknown is scrary, especially when it deals with your way of life. Most of us do not like to come out of our comfort zone. We would rather sit back and let things stay as they are-rather it be good or bad. UPS, controlling the pension, I personally will say, yes, but with caution. Red, we really dont have much choice on the matter, our back is against the wall. Who knows maybe will be presently surprised.

Sorry, Im not a big fan of long post. This is my last and final point. Ill try and make it brief. The last,best and final option. Have the pension go to each employee personally. An a account with your name and your name only. It would be like a 401k or it could be the 401k. Just think Red, its your own money, invest as YOU please. YOU have total control of your destiny. That would be great. I get all excited just thinking about it. Thats how I believe all pensions should be handled. Quit,get fired,company goes out business you will still have your money. Red,I might be unclear on this but I believe that you took back your local and turned it around. I honestly believe thats what needs to be done here. Take back our hard earned pension and give it back to the individual masses. A pipe dream, could very well be, but the thought of it is surely nice. Take care my friend. Area 43 out. ( :

.

Area we agree on alot but i disagree that ups should hold a pension as a single employe. Check out ups trustees votinf records on several of the funds.
https://web.archive.org/web/20101128225722/http://tdu.org/node/1222

 

[JonFrum]

If you have actual evidence of wrongdoing, file charges!!!

.......participants ......administration fees........ assets (in millions)
2001.....137,539....................$45.7 million...............$603
2002.....131,716......................46.5..........................428
2003.....124,805......................55.............................433
2004.....124,405......................59.8..........................577
2005.....116,544......................61.............................720

Since 2001, the participants in Central States health and welfare fund has dropped by 21,000 or 15%. At the same time, administration fees has risen by 33%. Correct me if I am wrong, but if there are less people in the fund, shouldn't the fees go down as well. Obviously there are less people to administer to. In the annual report from 2005, schedule H, line i, the administration fees are broken down as such:
professional fees...............$278,623
investment advisory...........$357,687
OTHER.........................$61,434,532
Isn't it strange that 98.9% of the administration fees are not explained. Are they trying to hide the fact where some of this money really goes? Are the Teamsters getting a kickback and using the excuse of administration fees? I know that I am not the only one that finds this highly peculiar.

Engineer 79,
Dollar amounts for some of the Administrative Expenses above, and to whom paid, are itemized in Schedule H - Financial Information. Use the Service Codes below.

Code - Service
10 Accounting (including auditing)
11 Actuarial
12 Contract Administrator
13 Administration
14 Brokerage (real estate)
15 Brokerage (stocks, bonds, commodities)
16 Computing, tabulating, ADP, etc.
17 Consulting (general)
18 Custodial (securities)
19 Insurance agents and brokers
20 Investment advisory
21 Investment management
22 Legal
23 Printing and duplicating
24 Recordkeeping
25 Trustee (individual)
26 Trustee (corporate)
27 Pension insurance advisor
28 Valuation services (appraisals, asset valuations, etc.)
29 Investment evaluations
30 Medical
31 Legal services to participants
99 Other (specify)