Another example of Central States mismanagement
- Thread starter Bill
- Start date
J
JonFrum
Guest
Schedule C - Service Provider Information (Form 5500)
CORRECTION: Dollar Amounts are itemized in SCHEDULE C - SERVICE PROVIDER INFORMATION. Sorry for the confusion.
CORRECTION: Dollar Amounts are itemized in SCHEDULE C - SERVICE PROVIDER INFORMATION. Sorry for the confusion.
tieguy
Banned
Not sure Red, I'm hearing the 18 guys standing trial in Chicago right now know all about those kind of loans.
18 guys standing trial that they say won't even hurt organized crime that much in chicago. Did the mobsters just up and quit the teamsters or how does that work?
You know your point about management being corrupt. Well I honestly don't believe the mob has ever completely gotten out of the teamster business.
705red
Browncafe Steward
Tie, i can assure you that theres no connection in 705 to any mob influence! theres at least 15 teamster locals in chicago, only 2 deal with ups 705 and 710. I have never said the teamsters are perfect but i will use their representation when it comes to ups because ups is just as crooked! What about that accounting manager out of addison that embezzeled over $800,000 from ups, will you be sending her a gift basket ups to the lock up?
First of all, I post only once a week because I don't have the time that you obviously have. Since you are a BA for the Teamsters or higher up in your corrupt organization, you have plently of time to post as you work only a few hours a week. As far as lies go, I try to expose the truth that the Teamsters and Central States are trying to cover up. You haven't disputed the numbers that I post since they come straight out of the annual reports that Central States print. Where I work, the Teamsters are constantly handing out their propaganda, and I am sure that this is being done around the country. I have answered all your questions, but you are never satisfied. You are more concerned about the trivial issues rather than what really counts, such as the pension and health benefits. Could this be the case since you or the Teamsters don't have any answers to the questions that we all want to know: WHAT ARE THE TEAMSTERS DOING TO FIX THE PENSION PROBLEMS? WHY ARE OUR BENEFITS BEING SLASHED WHEN THE HEALTH FUND IS GROWING IN EACH OF THE LAST THREE YEARS? I think that you are more worried about your job and keeping your big salary and pension that the Teamsters provide for you. If the Teamsters took care of the problems that they knew existed years ago, none of this would be happening today, including trying to form another union (APWA). The Teamsters are more concerned about themselves than the people they allegedly represent.
Simple question for you: Why does the annual report list $61 million as other administration fees? Everything else is listed. Are they trying to hide something? Why do you and your people keep trying to divert attention away from the real issues?
As far as APWA money, instead of UPS paying the Teamsters weekly, that money will go to the new union that represents only UPS employees. For arguments sake, let's assume that UPS gives the Teamsters $25 million weekly. The Teamsters then spread it out to cover all employees under CS that work for other companies, thus UPS employees are receiving only $10 million weekly. Under the APWA scenario, UPS people would receive 100% of UPS contributions or the full amount of $25 million. Would you rather have $10 million or $25 million? I can't wait to hear that you would rather allow the Teamsters to give us the smaller amount. This is not rocket science.
The Teamsters have a long history of corruption or do you deny that too? I answered your question already in the previous post, now you do the same and answer my questions if you can.
Re: If you have actual evidence of wrongdoing, file charges!!!
I have schedule H in front of me, and none of those items that you list are on this report. I am looking on page 3 (administration fees). Perhaps you can be more specific on where to find these expenses that you refer to.
This is the only thing that I agree with you about. UPS should not hold the pension, but neither should the Teamsters as they have shown a pitiful track record when it comes to managing "our" money. The only viable solution would be for a separate entity (in this case the APWA), to control the UPS contributions and given to UPS employees only. That way it insures that we receive what we are entitled to when the time comes to retire. How many UPS package car drivers are going to be able to work until the age of 65? Very few? Why should they? The ones that don't make it to age 50 forfeit their pension. What happens to this money?
705red
Browncafe Steward
E79 im pretty fure jonfroum has posted links to were those costs can be found. Now why dont you answer the question where is the apwa money coming from? Jon answered your question now attempt tp be a man and answer brother krashs question! Today, dont log off and run away and come back next sunday and try to avoid it!
J
JonFrum
Guest
Re: If you have actual evidence of wrongdoing, file charges!!!
Engineer 79,
I posted a correction but you may have missed it due to the usual delay in my posts actually appearing in the thread. I'm not a registered member so my posts have to be approved by a moderator first!
The itemized dollar details of the plan's administration expenses are listed in Schedule C, not Schedule H. Again, sorry for the confusion.
Engineer 79,
I posted a correction but you may have missed it due to the usual delay in my posts actually appearing in the thread. I'm not a registered member so my posts have to be approved by a moderator first!
The itemized dollar details of the plan's administration expenses are listed in Schedule C, not Schedule H. Again, sorry for the confusion.
J
JonFrum
Guest
What Are The Teamsters Doing To Fix The Pension Problems?
Engineer 79,
Visit the Central States site . . .
http://www.centralstatesfunds.org/Participants/
Read how the required hourly employer contribution levels have been increased to shore-up the Fund . . .
http://www.centralstatesfunds.org/cs/Pdf/SpecialBulletin2007.pdf
Read the quarterly reports of the Fund's progress . . .
http://www.centralstatesfunds.org/cs/Spcl_Councel_Report.asp
Read the Fund Trustees' explanations of what caused the Plan's problems, and what they have done to fix it, in issues of Teamwork Magazine . . .
http://www.centralstatesfunds.org/cs/plans/teamwork.asp
There's also the original Plan Fix that was imposed by Judge Moran. Sorry, I don't have a link to it.
I am not in the Central States fund, but I assume most of this information was sent to your home. You may not agree with it, but it is a plan to fix the Fund. Basically it involves cutting benefits to reduce expenses, and increasing contributions to increase income. Over time the fund's financial status should improve, as it in fact has. A favorable stock market is helping too.
The Teamsters, as such, do not control the fund, Judge Moran does, under a 1982 Consent Decree. The Trustees have only limited power, and Teamsters Trustees have only half of that. Investment decisions are made by "named fiduciaries" that are big-name Wall Street investment firms. The Teamsters only negotiate the hourly contribution rate, and they will try to negotiate as high a rate as possible to shore-up the Fund, I assume.
As always, I'm not defending the sorry state of the Fund, just reminding you that fixes have been in place for several years now, and you should stop pretending nothing has been done.
Engineer 79,
Visit the Central States site . . .
http://www.centralstatesfunds.org/Participants/
Read how the required hourly employer contribution levels have been increased to shore-up the Fund . . .
http://www.centralstatesfunds.org/cs/Pdf/SpecialBulletin2007.pdf
Read the quarterly reports of the Fund's progress . . .
http://www.centralstatesfunds.org/cs/Spcl_Councel_Report.asp
Read the Fund Trustees' explanations of what caused the Plan's problems, and what they have done to fix it, in issues of Teamwork Magazine . . .
http://www.centralstatesfunds.org/cs/plans/teamwork.asp
There's also the original Plan Fix that was imposed by Judge Moran. Sorry, I don't have a link to it.
I am not in the Central States fund, but I assume most of this information was sent to your home. You may not agree with it, but it is a plan to fix the Fund. Basically it involves cutting benefits to reduce expenses, and increasing contributions to increase income. Over time the fund's financial status should improve, as it in fact has. A favorable stock market is helping too.
The Teamsters, as such, do not control the fund, Judge Moran does, under a 1982 Consent Decree. The Trustees have only limited power, and Teamsters Trustees have only half of that. Investment decisions are made by "named fiduciaries" that are big-name Wall Street investment firms. The Teamsters only negotiate the hourly contribution rate, and they will try to negotiate as high a rate as possible to shore-up the Fund, I assume.
As always, I'm not defending the sorry state of the Fund, just reminding you that fixes have been in place for several years now, and you should stop pretending nothing has been done.
Re: If you have actual evidence of wrongdoing, file charges!!!
This explains some of the costs. The total expenses listed on Schedule C add up to $29,887,968. Total administration expenses were $61,434,532. There seems to be a shortage of $31,546,564. I wonder where the difference went!!!!!!
Either you are retarded or just acting stupid. AS you can see in the previous post, there still seems to be a discrepancy of over $31,000,000. Where do you think this money went?
I just told you and others have told you where the APWA money is coming from. I even answered that in the post that you responded to. You see what you want to see. Open your eyes already. Central States is broke. The ship is sinking fast. It can no longer be fixed. The Teamsters have no answers, no solutions. All I keep hearing from you and your cronies is the same stupid questions that have been answered repeatedly. I have posted the same question to you over and over again, but you choose to ignore it. What are the Teamsters doing to fix the pension problem? You don't have an answer, the Teamsters don't have a clue, so you nit-pick on minor issues and divert attention away from the main issue.
OK big Teamster man, answer these two questions for me or do what you always do. Ignore the questions I pose to you and keep asking me to show you where the APWA money is. Where is the money the Teamsters have? HUH? Where is the 31 million dollar shortage in administration fees? What do the Teamsters plan on doing to correct the pension plan? I don't expect an answer from you, because you have none or you will give me an answer unrelated to the questions.
Re: What Are The Teamsters Doing To Fix The Pension Problems?
Each year for the past 3 years, UPS has contributed $26 per employee per week into the pension fund. This year on August 1, 2007 UPS will add another $28 per week per employee into the pension fund. That totald $26+26+26+28=$86 per week additional money that UPS contributes weekly. They put more money in, but we don't see a penny of it. Instead we are forced to take cuts due to the sad state that our Central States pension fund is in. If you read the entire annual report, you will see that the fund had a return of 13.4%, which by any standards is a great return. However, even with this big return, CS still had $3 billion more in liabilities than the previous year. What if the investments can't pull down these huge returns yearly. A smart person like you can surely see that if this happens, CS will incur a huge shortfall. The big question is: Do we continue to keep pouring money into this bottomless pit (Teamsters and CS) that keeps draining our money, or is it about time to change course, as the present one does not work and will never work. I see the only viable solution is to cut our loses and start a new fund for UPS people only. This way we are able to keep 100% of the pension money and not have it abused as the Teamsters have done. There wouldn't be a shortfall of unexplained administration fees in the neighborhood of $31.5 million. This is for the health and welfare fund. If I check the pension fund, I am sure to find a bigger shortfall in administration fees as they rack up $120 million for their services. I am sure the Teamsters have a healthy pension plan.
J
JonFrum
Guest
Re: If you have actual evidence of wrongdoing, file charges!!!
Engineer 79,
First, I wonder if you overlooked the top item on the Central States Form 5500 for 2005, Schedule C:
"Enter the total dollar amount of compensation paid by the plan to all persons, other than those listed below, who received compensation during the plan year: $16,217,161."
That $16 million is easy to miss because it is not in the same format as all the other entries.
Second, the government's Form 5500 Schedule C specifically states that only the top forty Service Provider payments are to be listed. [ I think they stole "Service Provider" from UPS, and "top forty" from Casey Casem and AM radio. ] The smallest payment listed is for $72,508. All smaller payments are not listed. From the instructions on the form itself: ". . . list service providers in descending order of the compensation they received for the services rendered during the plan year. List only the top 40. . . ."
Third, you can review the Schedule H instructions I quoted earlier and assume that the fund also spent money on the smaller items listed in the instructions, but not required to be itemized in Schedule C.
The 2005 H & W fund is covered by a Fidelity Bond of $3 million dollars. You will sleep easier now that you know the Fund is protected against loss from theft or fraud, won't you? The Pension Fund is protected by a $3 million Fidelity Bond as well. Turn in any wrongdoers, and the Surety Company will make the Fund whole.
Any one else wanting to obtain Form 5500 Annual Reports easily online can learn how here . . .
http://www.browncafe.com/community/threads/ups-subsidizing-non-ups-pensions.27725/
Engineer 79,
First, I wonder if you overlooked the top item on the Central States Form 5500 for 2005, Schedule C:
"Enter the total dollar amount of compensation paid by the plan to all persons, other than those listed below, who received compensation during the plan year: $16,217,161."
That $16 million is easy to miss because it is not in the same format as all the other entries.
Second, the government's Form 5500 Schedule C specifically states that only the top forty Service Provider payments are to be listed. [ I think they stole "Service Provider" from UPS, and "top forty" from Casey Casem and AM radio. ] The smallest payment listed is for $72,508. All smaller payments are not listed. From the instructions on the form itself: ". . . list service providers in descending order of the compensation they received for the services rendered during the plan year. List only the top 40. . . ."
Third, you can review the Schedule H instructions I quoted earlier and assume that the fund also spent money on the smaller items listed in the instructions, but not required to be itemized in Schedule C.
The 2005 H & W fund is covered by a Fidelity Bond of $3 million dollars. You will sleep easier now that you know the Fund is protected against loss from theft or fraud, won't you? The Pension Fund is protected by a $3 million Fidelity Bond as well. Turn in any wrongdoers, and the Surety Company will make the Fund whole.
Any one else wanting to obtain Form 5500 Annual Reports easily online can learn how here . . .
http://www.browncafe.com/community/threads/ups-subsidizing-non-ups-pensions.27725/
J
JonFrum
Guest
Central States: 63% Funded, And Rising; Not 47% And Falling Toward Zero
Engineer 79,
Just like a supertanker, it initially takes a while to turn around a huge pension fund, especially since the benefit cuts, and hourly contribution increases, must, by law, be concentrated among the active employees only. Retirees, and those vested-but-inactive, are off limits. Even with active employees, it's only their future accruals that can be affected, not their already vested pension benefits.
"Central States Fund Expands to $21 Billion
April 2, 2007: The Central States Pension Fund ended 2006 with a $1.4 billion gain in assets, reaching $20.7 billion—up from just $15 billion a few years ago. The fund projects that by the end of 2007, assets will be up to $21.2 billion, with expected investment returns. With better returns, the Fund projects that they will surpass $22 billion.
These figures are in the fund’s Financial and Analytical Reports obtained by TDU in February 2007.
This big gain in assets at Central States shows the impact of benefit accrual cuts imposed on members, and diversion of money from health and welfare to the pension fund for the third year in a row.
In addition, 2006 was a good year for investors, with the Fund’s investments earning 14.5 percent. . . ."
Full article: http://www.tdu.org/node/972
In a Q & A, TDU said:
"Q: Isn't the Central States Fund too messed up to be saved?
A: The Central States Fund is currently under-funded (it’s 63% funded), but that situation is rapidly improving. Last year the Fund assets jumped up to nearly $21 billion, and the fund continues to grow this year. This is because money negotiated for health and welfare has been diverted to the pension fund for three straight years, pouring hundreds of millions extra into the fund each year. Also the stock market has done well in recent years.
We can't afford to give up on Central States. Remember, if UPS pulls out of Central States, UPS Teamsters will still depend on the fund for a large part of our pension. It would not be smart to weaken the fund by supporting a pullout when we will depend on the fund later on to support our retirement. . . ."
Full article: http://www.makeupsdeliver.org/page.php?18
Engineer 79,
Just like a supertanker, it initially takes a while to turn around a huge pension fund, especially since the benefit cuts, and hourly contribution increases, must, by law, be concentrated among the active employees only. Retirees, and those vested-but-inactive, are off limits. Even with active employees, it's only their future accruals that can be affected, not their already vested pension benefits.
"Central States Fund Expands to $21 Billion
April 2, 2007: The Central States Pension Fund ended 2006 with a $1.4 billion gain in assets, reaching $20.7 billion—up from just $15 billion a few years ago. The fund projects that by the end of 2007, assets will be up to $21.2 billion, with expected investment returns. With better returns, the Fund projects that they will surpass $22 billion.
These figures are in the fund’s Financial and Analytical Reports obtained by TDU in February 2007.
This big gain in assets at Central States shows the impact of benefit accrual cuts imposed on members, and diversion of money from health and welfare to the pension fund for the third year in a row.
In addition, 2006 was a good year for investors, with the Fund’s investments earning 14.5 percent. . . ."
Full article: http://www.tdu.org/node/972
In a Q & A, TDU said:
"Q: Isn't the Central States Fund too messed up to be saved?
A: The Central States Fund is currently under-funded (it’s 63% funded), but that situation is rapidly improving. Last year the Fund assets jumped up to nearly $21 billion, and the fund continues to grow this year. This is because money negotiated for health and welfare has been diverted to the pension fund for three straight years, pouring hundreds of millions extra into the fund each year. Also the stock market has done well in recent years.
We can't afford to give up on Central States. Remember, if UPS pulls out of Central States, UPS Teamsters will still depend on the fund for a large part of our pension. It would not be smart to weaken the fund by supporting a pullout when we will depend on the fund later on to support our retirement. . . ."
Full article: http://www.makeupsdeliver.org/page.php?18
tieguy
Banned
Red I'm confused you said ups was just as crooked then gave an example of an employee UPS had locked up for being crooked?
Its a real simple question Red that I think todays upsers have a right to ask. How do we really know the mob is out of the teamsters pension? Did they just up and walk away one day?
Re: Central States: 63% Funded, And Rising; Not 47% And Falling Toward Zero
Again jon, thanks for all that info but as everyone seems to agree on except you is that the cs pension fund{super tanker} you speak of may turn around like you say but nobody knows how long that will take correct. And its really doesn't matter because when it comes down to it the money, if put into a 401k from now on would probably triple the amount that we would ALL get in a very short time. Basically it comes down to how long you want to wait and I for one don't have 10 years or more to try and recoup. So saying this fund is still savable is only as to how long you want to wait by continuing your hard earned money into it when most don't think its worth saving. Now that may seem alittle harsh when refering to someones retirement but there comes a point in time where you can only take so much, unless another avenue would surface and even if its not the best one you would be willing to give a chance even if were to be on the short term. And after hearing all tales about this and that, and we all know who I'm talking about, people will start to taking a stand. So again thanks for all the info as usuall but really the pension is just the tip of the iceberg. For me, that is only a part of the things I would like to see changed. We may not all like the IBT and some may not trust the APWA but we have to remember that this is our money, OUR FUTURES and nobody will fix this unless we ALL come together, even if this means we leave cs.
Again jon, thanks for all that info but as everyone seems to agree on except you is that the cs pension fund{super tanker} you speak of may turn around like you say but nobody knows how long that will take correct. And its really doesn't matter because when it comes down to it the money, if put into a 401k from now on would probably triple the amount that we would ALL get in a very short time. Basically it comes down to how long you want to wait and I for one don't have 10 years or more to try and recoup. So saying this fund is still savable is only as to how long you want to wait by continuing your hard earned money into it when most don't think its worth saving. Now that may seem alittle harsh when refering to someones retirement but there comes a point in time where you can only take so much, unless another avenue would surface and even if its not the best one you would be willing to give a chance even if were to be on the short term. And after hearing all tales about this and that, and we all know who I'm talking about, people will start to taking a stand. So again thanks for all the info as usuall but really the pension is just the tip of the iceberg. For me, that is only a part of the things I would like to see changed. We may not all like the IBT and some may not trust the APWA but we have to remember that this is our money, OUR FUTURES and nobody will fix this unless we ALL come together, even if this means we leave cs.
