APWA- divide and conquor

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by brett636, Feb 9, 2007.

  1. brett636

    brett636 Well-Known Member

    The debate over the APWA has been going on here for a while now, and has pretty much gone nowhere. Those that support it claim it will save the world, others have realized that a bunch of grand claims and no way to prove them could make for a disastrous future.

    One thing I have noticed is the APWA's own future resides on its ability to divide UPS employees in order to conquor the teamsters. Its leaders and supporters have realized that in any group of people have you your hopeless dreamers. People that are never quite satisified with how things are, and will jump feet first into anything that claims it can provide a better future. Its very much like those get rich quick commercials on late night tv, if they weren't making money for their producers they wouldn't be there.

    On the other side of the coin you have the doubters and hard nosed teamsters supporters. The doubters will not believe the claims made by the APWA unless they can be shown some proof. They are not happy with the current teamster leadership either, but don't want to throw their entire future to an unproven organization. Of course the hard nosed teamster supporters will support nobody else but the teamsters for one reason or another.

    My point is this. As UPSers we enjoy the best pay, benefits, and available retirement plans in our industry. No other company can provide quite like UPS can, but in reality UPS would not be paying or providing like they do had there not been a bargaining agent constantly upping the ante on what we recieve. While the teamsters are far from perfect, or the ideal union, they have gotten us what we have today. Now we have to ask ourselves do we want to throw all this to the wind? Do we want to put our futures in the hands of an organization that claims it can unite us when its currently trying to divide us? Those are the questions that should be getting asked. The APWA just wants us to focus on the failings of the teamsters, yet they try to aviod proving themselves. I ask everyone here to challenge anyone who would ask them to give up the lifestyle they currently enjoy for the minute chance that they can do better. Your job security, pay, benefits, and even retirement reside on making sound decisions about who you want fighting for you at the bargaining table. Do we go with what we know works, or those with no history? Its your choice, and you better hope its right once its made.
  2. nospinzone

    nospinzone New Member

    The 1995 film Braveheart depicts the struggle and eventual self-liberation of the Scots from the British. The following is a memorable line that Mel Gibson's character uses to focus the attention of his fellow-countrymen amidst selfish infighting:

    You're so concerned with squabbling for the scraps from Longshank's table that you've missed your God given right to something better."

    We work for an extremely, extremely profitable company. Yet the Teamsters will fight to continue siphoning off the company profits and compensations that we, THE UPS EMPLOYEE, should be enjoying.

    And to continue this raping, their best lie of defense is to convince the UPS employee that no one else is capable of doing their job. If your union name doesn't have "teamsters" in its name, then you are destined for failure. If an experienced union with a history longer than theirs were attempting to organize UPS/UPSF, their arguement would not change.

    APWA has the people necessary to make this happen. The pension manager is a well-known financial firm that will bring you comfort when you see their name. The seven+ labor lawyers from the East coast to the West coast have all the experience needed to protect your work rights and to pursue your interest at the bargaining table. And the EMPLOYEES OF UPS have the collective vision and leadership from within to move us forward. But if you don't believe that their is something better out their for the UPS employee, continue down the same path.

    Fortunately for the Scottish, the same path wasn't good enough for William Wallace.

    And Brett, the time for talk is soon drawing to an end.
  3. brett636

    brett636 Well-Known Member

    Do you really believe the foolishness of what you just posted? You won't even post the name of the fund manager they supposedly have already setup to run a pension. How can I, or any rational UPS employee, put our livelihoods at risk for an organizationg that is so secretive about what its doing.

    Comparing our situation to braveheart is also hardly a good analogy. I for one do not feel like I am being abused or used or that I have it bad in any way. I am paid better than a lot of people that I know, my medical benefits trump that of just about everyone in the private sector today, and combining that with smart investments I will also enjoy a good retirement. How can you construe this as bad? As with any company there are areas of opportunity, but those are not matters that concern me greatly enough that I want to throw out my current union for an unproven one.

    Finally, if a union wanted to take over for the teamsters that had some real facts to back it up I would be much more open to the idea. If the mechanic's union were trying to take over for the teamsters I would be all for it, because they have proven they do a much better job at providing a solid retirement and good benefits.

    Coupling this with the poor showing the APWA has put on this web forum I can't come up with a single good reason to ever support them in any way. APWA is nothing more than a fool's dream.
  4. Bill

    Bill Member

    DO we want to give our pension money to an organization (Teamsters) that penalizes us, gives our money away to employees of other companies, and mismanages our pension money? They no longer work for us, we work for them. There is no financial security upon retirement. If a retiree dies, the family only gets 50% of the pension. DO you call this security?
  5. brett636

    brett636 Well-Known Member

    Show me examples of where the APWA has done better. Show me the contracts they have written up and the pensions they claim they can maintain so well. Prove to me they can do it. I don't want hypothetical numbers, or theories, or promises. I want real world positive results that they have been successful at what they claim they will do for UPSers.
  6. 30andout

    30andout New Member

    Brett, I believe you said it in your past posts, bla bla bla, bla bla bla.
  7. 30andout

    30andout New Member

    If I am not mistaken, that is what our country is based on. Our politicians make us promises and we vote for them, and everyone has their opinion.
  8. wildgoose

    wildgoose WILDGOOSE

    I`m thinking cheryl gives out higher rep power like cotton candy - Look at Brett636 with a 50 power woo hooo !
  9. brett636

    brett636 Well-Known Member

    I don't know about your own voting habits, but I've never voted for someone based on how pretty their smile is or how big their promises are. I vote based on past history, and every politician in a signifigant level of government(congressman, president, etc.) has one.
  10. 30andout

    30andout New Member

    I bet if you check, they all started somewhere.:lol:
  11. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    "I`m thinking cheryl gives out higher rep power like cotton candy - Look at Brett636 with a 50 power woo hooo !"

    WRONG! Rep power is determined by other posters, not Cheryl. Click on Bretts name, and you'll see who gave him positive credit.
  12. DorkHead

    DorkHead Active Member

    You`ve hit the nail right on the head, great post brett
  13. nospinzone

    nospinzone New Member

    APWA- Divide and Move Forward

    Show me examples of how IBT tried to avoid the current situation. Cuts after cuts in benefits have yet to stop the bleeding. Their one hope of using UPS Freight pension money to improve funding is now even slipping away.
    Show me examples where they have a plan to reverse their failures. Yes the IBT was successful twenty years ago, but the competition is tighter, the economy is tighter, the labor laws have changed, and yet they have failed to adapt so as to protect its members. Their failures in this area now leave the IBT weakened in their attempts to recover. Their current model cannot succeed and is doomed for failure. To continue to stay with this sinking ship requires an ostrich mentality (ie...ignorance is bliss with your head in a hole). UPS is responsible for providing pension contributions only for UPS employees. It is not their responsibility to provide a pension for the other 800,000 Teamsters; so expectations of UPS to pony up more money are likely to go unfulfilled. You require previous results to validate the APWA's attempts yet you fail to offer solutions or expectations of the IBT to succeed.

    Your continued position that a lack of a track record nullifies the APWA's efforts has been proven wrong by our pilots. They recognized the downward spiral the IBT is stuck in. They chose to act for themselves and to take control of their destiny without relying on some other entity with the experience to do the work for them. I imagine that during their decert effort there were skeptics such as yourself who feared change, but look how they now are in full control of their future. The only people who can influence the pilot union.........are pilots. What a novel idea. Take a look at the IPA's website and notice the autonomy these guys have. Read over the history of their union and take notice of how they made the personal decision to get off the sinking ship. And how UPS pilots personally took control of their future. Check out the participation that follows such autonomy. In their last general election, there was a 80.9% voter participation rate. When was the last time you heard of such voter participation amongst Teamsters? Or among UPS employees? If we allowed another union to organize UPS employees, in the short term it would give you some peace of mind, but in the long run that would only open another door/opportunity for the UPS employee to be exploited.
  14. satellitedriver

    satellitedriver Moderator

    The year 1997 should give you a clue to the teamsters vast skills at winning a contract for UPS employees. Two week strike. Coming back in for the same raise offered by UPS and losing a $3,500 profit sharing check that year and every other year based on profit of the company. 25 years out at any age retirement and full medical coverage for you and your family for the rest of you life. Yeah, the teamsters are the way to go if you believe in their track record.
    My lifestyle is determined by me. My job security is determined by how well I do my job. My choice was made in 1997 to quit the teamsters. I will not give away my money to a group that does not have my interests at heart.

    Quoting you," Do we go with what we knows works, or those with no history?"
    I say, if the teamsters stay in power, history will only repeat itself.
  15. brownmonster

    brownmonster Man of Great Wisdom

    Same raise? I beleive the company offered 35 cents every other year. Your bonus was your raise. Did you see the entire company offer or just the highlite sheet?
  16. wildgoose

    wildgoose WILDGOOSE

    How true !!!!!!!
  17. :thumbup: read up on the IPA and you wil see that the APWA:thumbup1: is our best choice for us, 1 union , 1 contract, 1 pension plan, 1 health and welfare plan, for ups employees only!!!!!!!!:thumbup1:
  18. brett636

    brett636 Well-Known Member

    Um yea, if you look a little closer at the IPA they represent a group of people who required years of training and experience to get into the positions they have now. NDA and international business is booming yet it took them nearly 4 years to come up with a contract. Those of us on the front lines are in a little different situation. Your just trying to compare apples to oranges.
  19. brett636

    brett636 Well-Known Member

    You keep proving my point again and again. I have already stated numerous times the teamsters are not ideal, yet you keep wasting our time with posts like this. Why should I vote for a union with no track history? Where can I see real world results that the APWA can do better?
  20. think about what you said, they did not have any work stoppages, they have a contract hammer out for what they need and their concerns! they care enough to start a union for theirsevles, they could have join another union, but decided this was best for them, now fedex pilots want the same contract our pilots have. who else but ourselves knows what we need, hoffa never delivery any pkgs, can't get 50% of the members to vote for a election! :thumbup1: :thumbup1: :thumbup1: