At what point is it "too late" to be making deliveries?

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by soberups, Sep 25, 2010.

  1. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    I spoke with a driver yesterday who had worked 14 hours on Thursday. He was making residential deliveries at 10:00 at night, and he brought missed stops back to the building at 10:45 PM.

    This is pretty much routine for the train wreck of a center I have been transferred to. Some idiot in Atlanta has mandated an impossible stops-per-car metric for this center, so our management--oops, I mean puppets---have no choice but to dispatch 12, 13 or even 14-hour days.

    So my question is----at what point does it become unprofessional and downright unsafe to be making residential deliveries at night? Is it really an acceptable business practice to be knocking on doors, going into back yards or garages, or waking people up at 10:00 at night in order to deliver packages?

    The only time I have ever delivered that late was on New Years Eve of 2008 when we were recovering from the worst snow storms this area had seen in 100 years and we had a 2 week backlog of undelivered peak volume. It was understandable under those circumstances, and being New Years Eve most people were awake anyway.

    But this isnt peak season, its September. And its not the weather, its management incompetence.

    Walking thru peoples back yards at 10:00 at night is a good way to get shot in some of the rural areas I deliver to. At what point is it time to just "call it a night" and sheet the stops as missed?
  2. UPSGUY72

    UPSGUY72 Well-Known Member

    I would think aroung 9:00pm

    That makes no sense after it gets dark a drivers SPHOR goes way down. If a driver is out untill 11:00 means they are paying this driver atleaast 5 hour of OT if hey pay 2 driver 5 OT each that ialmost double what they would pay another driver with benifits to work 8 hrs. Talk about a bunch of monkeys running that building. I know the management in my building said that they aren't going to hammer the routes.

    If a driver is coming back to the building at 10:45 what time is he punching out 11:00. He needs 10 hr of down time in order to work the next shift so unless so unless his shift starts 10hr after he punches out he can't legally work the next day.
  3. ddomino

    ddomino New Member

    The federal Government says 14 consecutive hours with 11 worked is the max. But in our case it would be 12 hours after punch in, with a one hour lunch. So it would be the PM time of your punch in. This information I found at
  4. toonertoo

    toonertoo Most Awesome Dog Staff Member

    I am done at 9pm, no matter what, anything else is ridiculous, except maybe recovering from a storm etc. Ill say Im sick and take myself off the road. Its September, they need to wake up.
  5. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    The latest that I have ever made a delivery is midnight and that was during my first Peak 21 years ago. The latest that anyone in my center has every made one is around 2am, also during Peak. I agree with tooner that 9pm should be the cutoff, Peak or not, other than operational emergencies.
  6. Jones

    Jones fILE A GRIEVE! Staff Member

    If I'm on the triple time train, I can roll til the sun comes up. I'll just dial it in the next day :wink2:
  7. satellitedriver

    satellitedriver Moderator Staff Member

    I punch out at 10pm almost every night.
    That is my cutoff time no matter how many stops I have left.
    It is unsafe and unprofessional to deliver that late.
    Three different drivers that cover my route have had guns pulled on them when they delivered late at night.
    I am instructed not to sheet them as missed, but EC is acceptable.
    I have 5 people on my route wanting to call corporate and file a complaint about being awoken to receive a delivery, but they have not because they do not want to cause me grief with UPS.
    It is common for me to EC 1 to 10 stops per day. I refuse to work unsafely and after 10pm is an unsafe time to be delivering in the back woods.
  8. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    And therein lies the problem; you are being instructed by your management to falsify a delivery record in order to hide the missed packages, which in turn prevents the underlying problem (over dispatching) from ever being solved.

    EC means "emergency condition". Management incompetence isnt an emergency.

    Start sheeting those packages as "missed"...which is what they really are... and you will force those who have dispatched you in that manner to be hed accountable rather than just sweeping their mistakes under the rug.

    You cant be "directed" to falsify a document or be dishonest. If they want to edit your timecard and change the "missed" stops back to "EC" they certainly have the right to do so, but it will create a paper trail that they would prefer you to hide for them.

    Like it or not, you are complicit in the problem.
  9. tourists24

    tourists24 Well-Known Member

    Ill go even an hour sooner. Is there really a reason that a delivery company needs to be out later than 8pm? Really? I always tell my 17 year old that nothing good happens for a teenager after 11pm. I think the same can be said about the UPS and how professional it is to be out there walking on properties after 8
  10. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    My son delivers for Papa John's and they just extended their delivery hours to 3 am now that college is back in session. Do you think I want him out knocking on doors at 2-3 in the morning?
  11. tourists24

    tourists24 Well-Known Member

    omg,.,,, no Upstate. I wouldnt want my son out doing that either. I do however see a difference in the two comparisons. Pizza delivery has 2 prime delivery times: lunch time and evening delivery. Nature of the beast. PLUS, the customer calls that pizza in at 2am. They know it and is expecting it at such a late time. So yes very professional compared to what we do.
  12. John19841

    John19841 Member

    At least with pizza, they should know that you're coming...
  13. UPSGUY72

    UPSGUY72 Well-Known Member

    The whole problem started with UPS going public. Now most of Upper management never drove a package car so they have no clue on what actually has to happen for a package to get delivered and only care about keeping there job so they make production numbers goals that will never be achieved no matter what your local management does. They are not saving money if they have two guys doing three routes and work 4 to 5 hr of OT each a day. However they have achieved there stops per car numbers.
  14. Dragon

    Dragon Package Center Manager

    Sober, how about some more details. How many stops and p/u's was he dispatched with. Country route, urban, residential route. Regular driver, cover driver for the route. Did he break down, not feeling well, mad at management slowed way down....
  15. tourists24

    tourists24 Well-Known Member

    thats right Sober... speak up... It couldnt possibly be that this driver was actually given this much work right?
  16. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    You misunderstand the HOS.

    You can WORK 14 hours punch to punch.

    You may not DRIVE more than 11 hours. As a Package driver, you will probably never drive 11 hours in your 14 working hours. Remember, any time your PC is off is not driving time. As a PC driver, you're car is off a lot!

    If you punch in at 8am, they can work you till 10pm. Whether you take a lunch or not.
  17. satellitedriver

    satellitedriver Moderator Staff Member

    Yes, I am an accomplice and I have two main co-conspirators.
    The teamsters and UPS corporate, neither do their job correctly.
    I am just taking/earning the Stupid money UPS is willing to pay and putting it into the bank.
    15 months from now, I will Thank them.
  18. beentheredonethat

    beentheredonethat Well-Known Member

    I realize you are doing as you are told. But the mgr who tells you to sheet a stop as EC because it was too late s/b fired. Emergency condition s/b used for true emergencies (road closures, severe weather etc). Having a routine dispatch that makes you stay out til 10 PM isn't an emergency it's SOP. That's BS.
  19. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    He was a cover driver, sent out on the route cold, to an area he had absolutely no knowledge of. Like me, he was recently involuntarily transferred to this new center so his 4 years of area knowledge on his old center are now useless. And the route he got put on is an exceptionally tough one to do cold; the streets are narrow and poorly lit, parking is a huge issue, EDD is a farce, and the addresses are a confusing mix of city and unincorporated suburban number grids.

    When every route in the loop is already getting dispatched with 11+ hour planned days as a matter of routine and one of the regular drivers is sick or on vacation, a cover driver with no area knowledge on such a route is dead meat. He doesnt have a chance. No one else in the loop can help him because they are maxed out themselves.

    And the situation I am describing is not the exception, it is the norm for this new center. In my 23 years at UPS it is by far the most chaotic and dysfunctional operation I have ever been a part of. At one point last month the center paid out over $5000 in penalty pay for sixty-four over-9.5 grievances that were filed in one week.

    Last week I had 14 hours of OT, including an 11.8 hour day that I made bonus on. And I had it easy compared to most.

    The real fun starts on Monday Oct. 4th. On that day, my building is transferring 15 routes up to the new facility on Swan Island that is in the process of implementing EDD. Most of those routes will be run cold by the drivers who bid them as part of the change-of-operations procedure. And the routes in my building that those drivers vacated have also been bid on, and will also be run cold that day by the successful bidders. All told, there will be at least 20 routes going out for which the drivers have no training at all.

    The whole mess would be manageble if we could just cut back on the planned days and make some help available during the transition. But it wont happen that way; Atlanta will just keep on cramming an impossible number of stops down everybody's throat and make an already insane situation even worse. Its going to be an absolute custerfluck, and its happening just in time for peak season.

    Part of me is dreading it, the other part of me is looking forward to it with a sort of morbid fascination....the same sort of fascination that compels you to look at a car wreck as you drive by. If I didnt actually have to work here, I would want to grab a seat and get a bucket of popcorn and watch the drama unfold.
  20. beentheredonethat

    beentheredonethat Well-Known Member

    Last edited: Sep 25, 2010