Better not Bigger non DOT Compliant Trucks?

Redtag

Part on order, ok to drive
The mechanics should not be allowing trucks to stay on the road that they have seen have DOT failure items. Let's say a driver writes a broken spring. I go inspect the truck and see it's broken, I have to redtag it at that point. It does not matter what the operation needs and they cant unredtag it. Even automotive sups won't sign off, only another mechanic. Some mechanics dont have the balls to tell the preload manager NO.. I have seen mechanics get fired for trying to help operations and let safety items go and then the truck get in an accident.
 

ManInBrown

Well-Known Member
I second what @Bastiatian said. If the pkg car isn't safe to drive, you gotta enforce the contract and refuse to drive it.

Once when I reported a faulty parking brake before leaving the building a supe told me to swap cars on area with another driver. I asked a few questions and it became clear the supe was going to have the other driver use that pkg car to make deliveries. I put my foot down. "Well we don't have any other pkg cars and he's only got 10 stops." "Well suppose the pkg car rolls away at his 9th stop and damages property or worse, strikes a pedestrian." "All right, fine, sit tight and we'll figure something out." I wound up waiting nearly an hour in the yard for that driver to return.
Yup. If one person balks at using equipment for whatever reason, they‘ll just have someone they know that won’t make waves use it. Can’t even tell you how many times in feeders a trailer didn’t have a good fed sticker, or no registration and I refused to pull the load, so they would just give me another load going to same building or nearby. Now 9 times out of 10 I guarantee the trailer I refused to take didn’t get towed. They just passed it on to the next driver until they found a sloppy runner that wouldn’t check the paperwork.
 

quad decade guy

Well-Known Member
Yup. If one person balks at using equipment for whatever reason, they‘ll just have someone they know that won’t make waves use it. Can’t even tell you how many times in feeders a trailer didn’t have a good fed sticker, or no registration and I refused to pull the load, so they would just give me another load going to same building or nearby. Now 9 times out of 10 I guarantee the trailer I refused to take didn’t get towed. They just passed it on to the next driver until they found a sloppy runner that wouldn’t check the paperwork.
I've refused a trailer to see it inbound right behind me....that fast.
 

quad decade guy

Well-Known Member
What DOT items are you referring to?



Not a DOT violation.



What parts are not available to make it DOT compliant?



Crappy wiper blades are not a DOT violation in and of itself. They just need to clear rain, snow and moisture. If they will not clear the rain to give you clear vision, refuse to drive it.

But, be careful what you, and the DOT, classifies as clear vision before you refuse to drive a package car.
This^^^^^

Better know exactly what you are talking about.

And.....how far your union/local will back you. You refuse something or another and cause service failures and not be exactly right.....and your local rolls over for the company.....they'll terminate you in a sec.
 

quad decade guy

Well-Known Member
Trade you for the center manager who tried to get me to go on road with 4 bald tires, one of which was flat.
A flat is pretty obvious.....bald tires are pretty strait forward too. Tread depth gauge. Now, chunking and such can be pretty subjective. How about flat spots? This is where it can get dicey. Especially if loads/service is at stake. Yes, I realize about driver safety. If those bald tires pass a depth gauge......you really don't have an argument. I've seen it many times.
 

quad decade guy

Well-Known Member
To the obtuse(tough guys)...

I've been around a long time....Coast to Coast...even automotive. At UPS.

It's all the same....everywhere. Looks the same....smells the same.....same trucks....fleet...even the counters in the centers are the same.

Many posts and complaints here on BC sound very familiar.....I have seen them from coast to coast. CRAPPY, BROKEN DOWN EQUIPMENT IN SHABBY FACILITIES.

It's pretty obvious very little of this of this tough guy persona happens.....oh here on BC not in reality.

Laughable.
Wow… all those words to say absolutely nothing…
I was thinking the same thing.
Well, for you guys.....I'd expect nothing less. A void is a void.

Often obtuse and exactly who I'm talking about.

Look in the forrest(Forrest).....there are trees...
 

104Feeder

Phoenix Feeder
A flat is pretty obvious.....bald tires are pretty strait forward too. Tread depth gauge. Now, chunking and such can be pretty subjective. How about flat spots? This is where it can get dicey. Especially if loads/service is at stake. Yes, I realize about driver safety. If those bald tires pass a depth gauge......you really don't have an argument. I've seen it many times.
What you don't understand is that a Driver does not have to be right to assert a refusal to operate unsafe equipment, they just have to be acting on good faith. Management does not have any authority to override that regardless of your service concerns. The court decisions are there, your claims are unsupported.
 

quad decade guy

Well-Known Member
What you don't understand is that a Driver does not have to be right to assert a refusal to operate unsafe equipment, they just have to be acting on good faith. Management does not have any authority to override that regardless of your service concerns. The court decisions are there, your claims are unsupported.
I understand it's far more complicated than " oh well...I thought I was right..."

Now, how do prove good faith?

Example: " Driver: That tire is bald...I refuse to take it...."

Mechanic: "It passes tread depth-ok for service."

Now, say that was directly responsible for a planeload of I-phones missing service.
Whatever.

No? Absolutely possible.

Hyperbole?

Cases you may have mentioned may or may not have relevance. I'm pretty sure they didn't decide ANY case is carte Blanche under any circumstances....this is disengenous at best.

Again, you better know of what you speak.

I'll submit it is on a case by case basis.....especially on super subjective mechanical issues of which most drivers are unqualified......
 

Red Devil

Well-Known Member
I understand it's far more complicated than " oh well...I thought I was right..."

Now, how do prove good faith?

Example: " Driver: That tire is bald...I refuse to take it...."

Mechanic: "It passes tread depth-ok for service."

Now, say that was directly responsible for a planeload of I-phones missing service.
Whatever.

No? Absolutely possible.

Hyperbole?

Cases you may have mentioned may or may not have relevance. I'm pretty sure they didn't decide ANY case is carte Blanche under any circumstances....this is disengenous at best.

Again, you better know of what you speak.

I'll submit it is on a case by case basis.....especially on super subjective mechanical issues of which most drivers are unqualified......

Question marks? Quad decade guy.

Hotel? Trivago.
 

Brownslave688

You want a toe? I can get you a toe.
This^^^^^

Better know exactly what you are talking about.

And.....how far your union/local will back you. You refuse something or another and cause service failures and not be exactly right.....and your local rolls over for the company.....they'll terminate you in a sec.
Your local
Must really suck.
 

burrheadd

KING Of GIFS
I understand it's far more complicated than " oh well...I thought I was right..."

Now, how do prove good faith?

Example: " Driver: That tire is bald...I refuse to take it...."

Mechanic: "It passes tread depth-ok for service."

Now, say that was directly responsible for a planeload of I-phones missing service.
Whatever.

No? Absolutely possible.

Hyperbole?

Cases you may have mentioned may or may not have relevance. I'm pretty sure they didn't decide ANY case is carte Blanche under any circumstances....this is disengenous at best.

Again, you better know of what you speak.

I'll submit it is on a case by case basis.....especially on super subjective mechanical issues of which most drivers are unqualified......
Why must you talk in circles
If you think it makes you look smart you’re wrong
 

Brownslave688

You want a toe? I can get you a toe.
Why must you talk in circles
If you think it makes you look smart you’re wrong
It makes it obvious that he just likes to hear himself talk and knows he’s probably wrong.

It’s a defense mechanism he’s probably developed over the years after being proven wrong so many times.
 

104Feeder

Phoenix Feeder
I understand it's far more complicated than " oh well...I thought I was right..."

Now, how do prove good faith?

Example: " Driver: That tire is bald...I refuse to take it...."

Mechanic: "It passes tread depth-ok for service."

Now, say that was directly responsible for a planeload of I-phones missing service.
Whatever.

No? Absolutely possible.

Hyperbole?

Cases you may have mentioned may or may not have relevance. I'm pretty sure they didn't decide ANY case is carte Blanche under any circumstances....this is disengenous at best.

Again, you better know of what you speak.

I'll submit it is on a case by case basis.....especially on super subjective mechanical issues of which most drivers are unqualified......
Please.
You don't understand, at all.
Have you EVER asserted your rights under the STAA? It's obvious you didn't read any of the cases. The mechanic is not driving the tractor, I am. I have the Out of Service Criteria on me at all times and won't be backing down. Again, it's obvious you haven't read those.
Service DOES NOT FACTOR into safety decisions.
Not ever.
No not even if it's an iPhone.

Don't believe me?

Find me one mention of service in the FMCSR (which you obviously have not read).
I've schooled many a supervisor on what can go on road and what can't. Oh just one marker light is out on that air trailer? Sorry, they all have to work before it goes on road. Leaking an unknown liquid? Sorry that's a rehandle. I don't care if it's a hot load. Defroster doesn't work in that Package Car... in July... in Phoenix? Yup, red tagged and reloaded with all my air late MULTIPLE TIMES. No operative window washer fluid bottle? RED TAGGED.
Missing/defaced FHWA sticker? To the shop I go for a replacement.
I'd love someone in management like you to challenge me on this, I already won my OSHA case. OSHA doesn't like being ignored. Here's the rub- SOMEONE HANDLED THAT EQUIPMENT BEFORE ME! That's who failed and is causing the missed service, not me. Of course we don't have this kind of issue in Arizona Feeder, our management errs on the side of safety and have for years.

In fact, the bar is even higher in the planeload of iPhones you mention. Bash an extendo into the side of a plane trying to load an air can? It's red tagged until they properly repair it and it's certified airworthy, no tape patch like you'll see on a trailer. Duct tape doesn't fly.

Every driver has been trained and is qualified to make safety determinations on the items they are required to check during a pre-trip. Your qualifications to sound off on this topic are highly suspect.
 

Redtag

Part on order, ok to drive
Please.
You don't understand, at all.
Have you EVER asserted your rights under the STAA? It's obvious you didn't read any of the cases. The mechanic is not driving the tractor, I am. I have the Out of Service Criteria on me at all times and won't be backing down. Again, it's obvious you haven't read those.
Service DOES NOT FACTOR into safety decisions.
Not ever.
No not even if it's an iPhone.

Don't believe me?

Find me one mention of service in the FMCSR (which you obviously have not read).
I've schooled many a supervisor on what can go on road and what can't. Oh just one marker light is out on that air trailer? Sorry, they all have to work before it goes on road. Leaking an unknown liquid? Sorry that's a rehandle. I don't care if it's a hot load. Defroster doesn't work in that Package Car... in July... in Phoenix? Yup, red tagged and reloaded with all my air late MULTIPLE TIMES. No operative window washer fluid bottle? RED TAGGED.
Missing/defaced FHWA sticker? To the shop I go for a replacement.
I'd love someone in management like you to challenge me on this, I already won my OSHA case. OSHA doesn't like being ignored. Here's the rub- SOMEONE HANDLED THAT EQUIPMENT BEFORE ME! That's who failed and is causing the missed service, not me. Of course we don't have this kind of issue in Arizona Feeder, our management errs on the side of safety and have for years.

In fact, the bar is even higher in the planeload of iPhones you mention. Bash an extendo into the side of a plane trying to load an air can? It's red tagged until they properly repair it and it's certified airworthy, no tape patch like you'll see on a trailer. Duct tape doesn't fly.

Every driver has been trained and is qualified to make safety determinations on the items they are required to check during a pre-trip. Your qualifications to sound off on this topic are highly suspect.

Your right on this. The driver does have the right to refuse equipment that is unsafe.

We mechanics then look at the equipment to determine if it's unsafe and if so how to fix it and return it service. If not fixable at that time it gets redtagged or offloaded and redtagged if it's a trailer.

If it is not unsafe and the driver still won't drive it then management will find someone else to take it.
 

Wally

BrownCafe Innovator & King of Puns
I have to be careful here with details but there is a problem in my center.

UPS wont fix DOT items on some of the vehicles or red tag them. Period

This has been going on for a while because my center does not have enough vehicles in the correct sizes and some the of ones that we have will not pass a DOT inspection because the parts are not available. We cant even get wiper blades on some in Fla because it is too soon and the blades that UPS buys are crap.

The stock price seems to be going up and drivers seem to be put at risk. I am personally appalled that stock prices are a concern and safety is not.

Social posturing seems to be a concern in Atlanta yet safety problems exist due to lack of funds in automotive.

Carol, why are you allowing this?
Must be a regional thing? Trucks are ok here.

Side note, anyone use rain-x on their windows? Stuff is great for heavy rain situations.
 
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