Bid an inside/out job and...

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by IDoLessWorkThanMost, Aug 26, 2008.

  1. IDoLessWorkThanMost

    IDoLessWorkThanMost New Member

    Got screwed.

    Union telling me that, although I am top rate and already through progression (partly as inside/outside, partly inside/inside), I have to go through another 2 year progression per article 40. They said that it (article 40) supercedes all language before it.

    So I go from making 23.12 , top rate, to making part-time rate for 16 hours( 17/hr), and 12.50$/hr the air driving - bottom line.

    Does this sound correct?
  2. IDoLessWorkThanMost

    IDoLessWorkThanMost New Member

    I mentioned to steward that the contract says you only have to go through progression once, otherwise there's a 6 month braek-in period for feeder or package and thats the ONLY exception to that rule. I alraedy held a job with driving and I don't see where in the contract it says that I have to go through another progression.
  3. drewed

    drewed Shankman

    ummm my understanding was if you went driver you wouldnt have to go through a second progression, not the other way around
  4. Read article 40 d. and f. and article 41 b. the way it reads is no one goes through progression twice unless you've never had driving duties. This should help. Article 40

    Air Operation
    Section 6. Wages
    All hourly wages for employees covered under Article 40 will be determined in accordance with this
    Section, Article 22 and Article 41 where specified.

    b. Full-time air drivers will be paid as follows:
    Start $13.50
    Seniority $14.50
    Seniority Date plus 12 months $15.00
    Seniority Date plus 18 months $15.50
    Seniority Date plus 24 months Top rate
    1. Effective August 1, 2008, the prior $22.62 twenty-four (24) month (top) rate will change on August
    1st and February 1st of each year of the Agreement to reflect the agreed upon general wage
    increases. as follows:

    2. All full-time air drivers in progression on August 1, 2002 the effective date of this Agreement will
    be slotted into the full-time progression in paragraph b. above. Seniority full-time employees entering a
    full-time air driver job will be slotted based on their Company seniority.
    c. All new hire full-time or part-time air drivers will be placed in the applicable progression in
    paragraphs a. or b. above.
    d. All current full-time or part-time air drivers who are out of progression shall receive the general wage
    increases provided for in accordance with the split dates provided in Article 41 on each contract
    anniversary date, or the Top Rate provided in paragraphs a. or b. above, whichever is greater.

    f. Employees who are in existing full-time combination jobs or who hereafter enter a full-time
    combination job shall be paid the appropriate full-time air rate for air driver work and appropriate inside
    part-time rate for the hours worked in other classifications. If an employee has no established inside
    rate, that employee will be paid the appropriate part-time rate in accordance with his Company seniority.

    ARTICLE 41

    Section 1. Full-time Wage Increases
    All full-time employees who have attained seniority as of August 1, 2002 2008 will receive the
    following general wage increases for each contract year. In each of the years, the increase shall be
    paid in two (2) equal installments. The first-half of the increase shall become effective on August 1
    of the specified year. The second half of the increase shall become effective on February 1 of the
    following calendar year. The total wage increase for the year will be as follows:
    2008 seventy cents ($0.70)
    2009 seventy-five cents ($0.75)
    2010 seventy-five cents ($0.75)
    2011 eighty-five cents ($0.85)
    2012 ninety –five cents ($0.95)
    Full-time employees still in progression on the effective date of this Master Agreement shall receive the
    above contractual increases. They will be paid no less than what they are entitled to in accordance with
    Article 41, Section 2 below.
    Section 2. Full-time Wage Progression
    a. All Supplements, Riders or Addenda will contain the following wage progression schedule to cover
    all full-time employees, except apprentices, who are in the progression as of August 1, 2002 2008. or
    who enter a full-time job after August 1,2002 other than package, feeder, air or one covered by Section 3
    below. This two (2) year progression will also remain in effect from the date this Agreement
    becomes effective until August 1, 2008 for those employees entering during this period a full-time
    job other than package, feeder, air or one covered by Section 3 below.
    The rate in effect on July 31, 2002 will be used to calculate the progression rates for the life of this
    Rate in Effect
    on July 31, 2002
    Start 70%
    Seniority 75%
    Seniority Date plus one (1) year 80%
    Seniority Date plus eighteen (18) months 90%
    Seniority Date plus two (2) years Top Rate
    Part-time employees on the payroll as of July 31, 2002, who subsequently are promoted to full-time
    employment under this progression, will be red circled until such time as the calculated progression rate
    exceeds that rate. The transfer date will become his/her full-time start date for purposes of applying the
    above progression.
    When a part-time employee bids to a full-time classification under this progression where the top rate of
    the full-time classification is less than his/her current rate, the employee shall be placed at the top rate of
    the new classification immediately.
    b. No employee shall be required to complete a full-time progression more than one time even if he or
    she transfers between full-time jobs except as set forth in this paragraph. The sole exception is when an
    employee is awarded a package car or feeder driver job and has not previously held a full-time job
    which includes driving duties. In such event, the employee will have a break-in rate equal to the
    employee’s current wage rate until six (6) months from the date the employee entered the job. The
    employee will then go to the prevailing top rate. A part-time air driver who has completed the Article
    40 progression, bids a full-time inside job and then a driver job within two (2) years shall have the same
    break-in period.

    This Sub-section shall supersede any provision to the contrary in any Supplement, Rider or Addendum.
    Article 41 Section 2 (c) of the prior Agreement shall remain in effect for all employees in that
    progression as of the date of the ratification and those who enter the progression between the date
    of ratification and August 1, 2008.
    Section 3. Full-time Inside Wages
    The top pay rates for full-time inside only jobs created under Article 22, Section 3 under the prior or the
    current Agreement shall be as follows:
    August 1, 2002 $18.25
    August 1, 2003 $19.00
    August 1, 2004 $19.80
    August 1, 2005 $20.60
    August 1, 2006 $21.50
    August 1, 2007 $22.50
    These rates in this Section shall not apply to any full-time inside jobs guaranteed in Article 22, Section
    2 created prior to August 1, 1997.
    Part-time employees whose rates are higher than those set forth above below who bid into a full-time
    inside job covered by this Section shall be paid their current inside wage rate plus the general wage
    Other part-time employees who bid into a full-time inside job covered by this Section will be red circled
    at their current wage rate until such time as the calculated progression rate set forth below exceeds that
    rate. The transfer date will become his/her full-time start date for purposes of applying the progression
    set forth below. A part-time employee shall not lose the red circle protection provided by this
    paragraph as a result of transferring from one full-time inside job to another full-time inside job.
    Start $13.50 14.00
    Seniority $14.50 15.00
    Seniority plus one year $15.00 15.50
    Seniority plus 18 months $15.50 16.00
    Seniority plus 24 months Top Rate $16.50
    Seniority plus 36 months Top Rate
    The Top Rate shall be $22.62 plus the general wage increases provided in Section 1 above.

    For those employees who are currently in the above progression as of the date of ratification or who
    enter a job covered by this Section prior to August 1, 2002 2008, Article 41, Section 3 of the prior
    Agreement shall continue to apply. When the progression is completed, the employee shall be
    placed at the then current top rate and shall thereafter be eligible to receive the general wage
    increases beginning on the next date specified in Article 41, Section 1. shall be slotted into the above
    progression or continue at their red circled rate until the new progression exceeds that rate.
    Full-time employees who bid into a full-time inside job covered by this Section will be paid in
    accordance with their full-time seniority date. Full-time employees with two (2) three (3) or more years
    of full-time seniority who bid into a full-time inside job will be paid the top current rate of the

  5. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

    Did you mention that in order to do the inside/inside job driving was required; moving the Counter shuttle car, that should be counted too.
  6. IDoLessWorkThanMost

    IDoLessWorkThanMost New Member

    Yes I did mention that. Steward said that it didn't count. he did say that the part of the progression I did as Air driver/counter (although I wasn't air driving due to management forcing me not to as you know) MAY count towards the progression, but may not.

    It looks like the union scared me to back down from the job providing false info. I removed my name from the bid due to being told that I'd have to do progression again, and a woman took the job....I'm thinking that union and mgmt already had someone in mind and played a little game....

    It's pretty bad up here Joe...Local 25 at it's weakest.
  7. IDoLessWorkThanMost

    IDoLessWorkThanMost New Member


    The worst part was I asked two stewards, last week.

    A newer one but active, and the guy who doesn't give a rats ass if it has anything to do with fairness.

    The older and more well known stewards chuckled and told me I'd take a paycut in both classifications.

    The newer and very active steward I have known for 7 years and 3 buildings explained to me that I'd be making alot less than older seniority air drivers because I took a pay cut in Air Driving AND inside.

    I assumed he was wrong, and told him that the contract says otherwise. Article 41 clearly explains that any full-timer with 6 months break-in with driving duties makes top rate in air driving classification.

    I cannot see how two stewards came up with the same WRONG answer (which I firmly believe is wrong, wrong interpetation)

    Apparently Inside/air combos up this way are impossible to bid into....(Unlike 0215 ahem...)
  8. MR_Vengeance

    MR_Vengeance United Parcel Survivor

    i haven't dealt with one steward that really knew what they are talking about. I found it much easier to read the contract myself rather than asking someone who never read them.
  9. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

    Re: zzz

    Does that mean you want to come back?
    I know of a nice inside/inside job you can have, the female who has it now can not handle the stress. Heck just last week she was screaming at me in front of customers that " my job " is to do her work. I at the time was on my lunch & she complained to mgt about my refusal to " help " her; she had the security guard, another clerk, and an air driver ( who was off the clock ) helping her.
  10. JonFrum

    JonFrum Guest


    In 2002 negotiators inserted this new language to clarify that a full-timer that switches jobs must only go thru full-time progression once:
    [The exception doesn't apply to you.]

    This agrees with this Article 40 language:
    ["A full-time air driving job" is any amount of air driving done by a full-timer. It doesn't mean you have to air drive for eight hours or more a day.]

    Unfortunately, If your job involves any air driving at all, you fall under concessionary Article 40. Therefore, this language governs your split pay rate:
    In other words, when you are air driving you get the Top Rate. When you work the other half of your shift inside, you are paid as if you are a part-timer based on your total company seniority. In your case this means a pay cut during the inside half of your workday.

    By the way, the Article 40 Preamble says that Article 40 overrides language on the same subjects in the Supplements. It doesn't claim to overide Article 41 of the Master.
  11. IDoLessWorkThanMost

    IDoLessWorkThanMost New Member

    Re: zzz

    Don't know if I want to start drinking heavily or not. :biting: You two should get married.
  12. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

    Re: zzz

    Drinking is always optional.
    And no thanks, I don't have the desire to have a mysterious death like her last husband.
  13. IDoLessWorkThanMost

    IDoLessWorkThanMost New Member

    From what I hear, some drivers in ENE are not making top FT air driving rates even though they should be, then. I underdstand all of this, but the stewards don't agree. And therefore, I'd spend 40 hours making less than what I should of instead of 16, because UPS can bully and make the contract bend in their favor.
  14. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

    One small note; I started as an air exception driver way back in the 80's.My rate was $10/hr and for several contracts it never moved but for one contract where it was raised by $1.66. So for over 10+ yrs all I made was $11.66 while newer drivers started at $13.50. It seems that all parties had assumed that all the air exception drivers had faded away& no long included them in any wage increases.
  15. IDoLessWorkThanMost

    IDoLessWorkThanMost New Member

    Joe, one steward here says that all inside/out combo air drivers only make the PART-TIME air driving rate.

    Isn't that a load of :censored2::censored2::censored2::censored2::censored2:
  16. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

    maybe If you printed the contract in VERY LARGE font and stapled it to the backside of their sups, then they could read it.:happy-very:
  17. 705red

    705red Browncafe Steward

    Alot of stewards mis read the contract and than enforce it on how they see it. This is not the right way, when i first started i had no problem calling someone that did know. I have always said you will only have to explain it to me once and now its my job to remember it.

    I would make a call to obrien and inform him on what your stewards are doing. I personally have been pulled in by steve ob=ver a leeter a ptimer sent him about me. This is the only way that you leaders know whats going on and the only way to fix a bad steward.
  18. IDoLessWorkThanMost

    IDoLessWorkThanMost New Member

    I will make a call on the next bid that comes up inside/outside. It's not one steward, multiple.
  19. Fredless

    Fredless APWA Hater

    What did the business agent say? Don't know how it works there, but here the B.A. has the say so over the stewards.
  20. IDoLessWorkThanMost

    IDoLessWorkThanMost New Member

    Haven't talked to one. I'm sure they will say the same thing given the issue has apparently come and gone a number of times with others.

    two stewards I talked to are saying that all new 22.3 air /inside combos must go through two progressions.

    One steward says that the job pays the part-time rates for all 40 hours.
    Another says the job pays full-time air rate and part-time inside rate.

    They blame crappy language in the contract.

    I don't think this is right at all. Are they trying to keep me from bidding inside/out or something? Feel like I've already harrassed them too much as it is on the issue...