Black Lives Matter? Statistics Show That They Do.....

[floridays]

The Socratic Method | University of Chicago Law School

 

[It will be fine]

You forget, or conveniently leave out, that there are anti-discrimination laws and it wouldn't take long before it became obvious that lenders were denying blacks based on race. Not saying it didn't happen, saying it's been awhile. Not the case now. If however a Black buyer doesn't have the means necessary to make a down payment he will be denied. The world has changed a lot since the real estate bubble burst. It's a lot tougher to get a loan these days. And granting millions of mortgages to unqualified buyers because of pressure put on the banks by Christopher Dodd and Barney Frank is what started the eventual bubble bursting. Again Democrats, who lambast banks and other corporations all the time, demonstrated a fundamental lack of knowledge about how markets work but they just want what they want, market collapses be damned.

You were saying?
Senate Votes To Roll Back Rules Aimed At Fair Auto Lending For Minorities

 

[It will be fine]

Red lined also?

10 of The Most Affluent African American Suburbs In The Nation

I apologize for asking too many questions, its called the Socratic method
@It will be fine @Sportello, after that question is answered maybe we can do a compare and contrast and get to the root of this redlining.

I believe this falls under the anecdotal fallacy DIDO referred to. Take the outliers and pretend they’re representative of the whole.

 

[BrownArmy]

Red lined also?

Guy, you’re legit embarrassing yourself.

Do a little basic research- that’s no one’s responsibility but yours, this isn’t an opinion thing, you’re just dead wrong about ‘red-lining’.

 

[Old Man Jingles]

You were saying?
Senate Votes To Roll Back Rules Aimed At Fair Auto Lending For Minorities

In the auto loan marketplace, pricing isn't transparent, so it's easy for dealers to take advantage of unwitting consumers.

"African-Americans and Hispanics in particular — have systematically been charged a higher markup on auto loans than White borrowers," a study found.

They are based on your credit score ... my latest score was 850.
I get very good rates and I know what rates are going in.

 

[It will be fine]

In the auto loan marketplace, pricing isn't transparent, so it's easy for dealers to take advantage of unwitting consumers.

"African-Americans and Hispanics in particular — have systematically been charged a higher markup on auto loans than White borrowers," a study found.

They are based on your credit score ... my latest score was 850.
I get very good rates and I know what rates are going in.

Being poor is expensive.

 

[Old Man Jingles]

Being poor is expensive.

Being stupid is even more expensive.

 

[floridays]

I believe this falls under the anecdotal fallacy DIDO referred to. Take the outliers and pretend they’re representative of the whole.

It was offered as an example that mortgage companies have no problem lending to blacks, even offering larger loans (to blacks) at risk of default. The lack of lending in red lined zones was not based on race, it was based on economic risk. I'm sure auto insurance rates were higher in red lined areas than they would have been in a bordering zip code. Economic risk drew the boundaries for these areas, not skin color. It is very hard for a person that only sees race or color to understand these concepts however.

 

[vantexan]

You can’t walk me through anything because you don’t get how the US mortgage market works.

You really think banks would lend people money for homes for 30 years and with low down payments and low interest rates without the government insuring they’ll get paid?

The modern US housing market was created by the. FHA. The FHA told banks we won’t insure these 30 year home loans with low down payments an$ low interest rates if you lend in certain neighborhoods. The FHA then created color coded neighborhoods along strictly racial lines and said don’t give out loans in the red areas. Thus redlining.
This meant the people in the redlined areas would find it nearly impossible to secure a home loan while the FHA was ensuring those loans were available for white Americans.

It was a massively racist government policy because the FHA as official policy strove to create what it termed racially homogeneous neighborhoods that actually helped create racially segregated neighborhoods all across America because the introduction of black families into your neighborhoods would get it redlined and no one would be able to get home loans.

And it also was was the American government systematically allowing white Americans to buy homes and build wealth while denying it to black Americans.

That’s what redlining is in America.

In your view apparently banks should just give loans to whoever wants one without any consideration to that person's ability to repay the loan. It's that view that was pushed on banks by Frank and Dodd and was a major catalyst for the real estate market collapsing in 2008. But it's racism you cry, as always. No, it's sound business to not throw money away. As I said it may well have happened at one time but you seem to be implying it's still a systemic problem. No, if a person has the ability to pay and good credit that person gets a loan, no matter his race by law. If he doesn't he has legal remedies and banks don't want to throw money away on legal fees either.

 

[vantexan]

You were saying?
Senate Votes To Roll Back Rules Aimed At Fair Auto Lending For Minorities

In other words bureaucrats have been circumventing Congress to make law which Congress is seeking to correct.

 

[floridays]

Guy, you’re legit embarrassing yourself.

Do a little basic research- that’s no one’s responsibility but yours, this isn’t an opinion thing, you’re just dead wrong about ‘red-lining’.

Actually I'm not. I understand the red lining phenomenon, we disagree what caused these areas. You say it is skin color, I say it is economics, good business practices, and upholding the fiduciary duty to the shareholders, but racial discrimination sell more papers, and gets clueless lawmakers to produce bad law. Hey, what caused these food deserts Lady O railed about?

 

[BrownArmy]

Actually I'm not. I understand the red lining phenomenon, we disagree what caused these areas. You say it is skin color, I say it is economics, good business practices, and upholding the fiduciary duty to the shareholders, but racial discrimination sell more papers, and gets clueless lawmakers to produce bad law. Hey, what caused these food deserts Lady O railed about?

Wrong:


Redlining

A 'Forgotten History' Of How The U.S. Government Segregated America

How Redlining’s Racist Effects Lasted for Decades

Modern-day Redlining


From the very first page of results after googling 'redlining'.

Educate yourself.

 

[1989]

Wrong:


Redlining

A 'Forgotten History' Of How The U.S. Government Segregated America

How Redlining’s Racist Effects Lasted for Decades

Modern-day Redlining


From the very first page of results after googling 'redlining'.

Educate yourself.

Find me a scenario where someone was turned Down for a loan with real numbers.

Ex:
A 375K loan. With 30% down. $96k annual gross. A debt to income ratio of nearly 0. And a 777 credit score.

 

[vantexan]

Wrong:


Redlining

A 'Forgotten History' Of How The U.S. Government Segregated America

How Redlining’s Racist Effects Lasted for Decades

Modern-day Redlining


From the very first page of results after googling 'redlining'.

Educate yourself.

You post something that says exactly what you want to believe. How does that prove anything?

 

[floridays]

Wrong:


Redlining

A 'Forgotten History' Of How The U.S. Government Segregated America

How Redlining’s Racist Effects Lasted for Decades

Modern-day Redlining


From the very first page of results after googling 'redlining'.

Educate yourself.

And lets add some scholarly analysis.

https://www.richmondfed.org/~/media...esearch/economic_review/1980/pdf/er660601.pdf

 

[BrownArmy]

And lets add some scholarly analysis.

https://www.richmondfed.org/~/media...esearch/economic_review/1980/pdf/er660601.pdf

Can't tell the date on that one, but it looks like it's an analysis of the self-fulfilling engine of racial-redlining, i.e., 'you're not eligible for a mortgage due to your financials, which are crap because you were kept out of the market in the first place because you were black, etc.'.

I'm sort of surprised at the amount of push-back from y'all.

This isn't my opinion, I'm not calling you (plural) racists, and I'm not ascribing this through your imagined liberal lens where everything is about race.

This is history, and the common consensus is that redlining had a racial animus.

This was almost 100 years ago, if we can't even agree on the past, of course we can't agree on the present.

 

[floridays]

Can't tell the date on that one, but it looks like it's an analysis of the self-fulfilling engine of racial-redlining, i.e., 'you're not eligible for a mortgage due to your financials, which are crap because you were kept out of the market in the first place because you were black, etc.'.

I'm sort of surprised at the amount of push-back from y'all.

This isn't my opinion, I'm not calling you (plural) racists, and I'm not ascribing this through your imagined liberal lens where everything is about race.

This is history, and the common consensus is that redlining had a racial animus.

This was almost 100 years ago, if we can't even agree on the past, of course we can't agree on the present.

I don't like to deal in consensus, I prefer fact, 1980, the Federal Bank of Richmond. We can't agree on anything unless you bring a fact to the table or are at least willing to consider all inputs and arrive at fact. As I've mentioned many times, with your type everything is race or skin color, because it is easy and suits your agenda. Your type (leftists) are unwilling to consider anything beyond what will yield the outcome you desire. It never changes.

 

[BrownArmy]

I don't like to deal in consensus, I prefer fact, 1980, the Federal Bank of Richmond. We can't agree on anything unless you bring a fact to the table or are at least willing to consider all inputs and arrive at fact. As I've mentioned many times, with your type everything is race or skin color, because it is easy and suits your agenda. Your type (leftists) are unwilling to consider anything beyond what will yield the outcome you desire. It never changes.

I respectfully disagree.

You're always the one that wants facts, yet you're unwilling or unable to dig deep on the truth of this matter.

OK, you posted something from 1980 which is almost wholly irrelevant to the underlying proposition of whether or not redlining was racist in nature.

Look guy, I'm not going to lead you to water, I've given you enough 'leads' for you to do your own research. You're evidently able to find stuff on the internet, you found a super-random abstract from 1980!

And I'm the one who wants to fit facts into my narrative...LULZ

God Speed, You Black Emperor

(you probably think I'm injecting race into the conversation, it's just the name of the band, enjoy or not!)

 

[floridays]

I respectfully disagree.

You're always the one that wants facts, yet you're unwilling or unable to dig deep on the truth of this matter.

OK, you posted something from 1980 which is almost wholly irrelevant to the underlying proposition of whether or not redlining was racist in nature.

Look guy, I'm not going to lead you to water, I've given you enough 'leads' for you to do your own research. You're evidently able to find stuff on the internet, you found a super-random abstract from 1980!

And I'm the one who wants to fit facts into my narrative...LULZ

God Speed, You Black Emperor

(you probably think I'm injecting race into the conversation, it's just the name of the band, enjoy or not!)

I simply offered a research paper, from the Federal Bank of Richmond that offered empirical data. You stand with consensus.

 

[BrownArmy]

I simply offered a research paper, from the Federal Bank of Richmond that offered empirical data. You stand with consensus.

That's a cop-out.

You offered one piece of data that analyzed the situation decades after the fact; like I said, it basically confirmed the self-fulfilling effects of racial-redlining and addressed nothing of the initial animus. Your research paper doesn't negate any of my propositions.

Guy, it's up to you to come to a wholistic understanding of the situation we're discussing.

Like so many other things, it's really, really complicated, and there's no easy answer, but several things stand out that I would assume we could all agree on.

Your 'easy' answer that redlining has nothing to do with race is laughable, absurd, and frankly a little offensive.

I'm out.