Business and 21st Century: UNION not needed

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Ask not what your Union can do for you, ask what you can do for your Union.

 

[purplesky]

If people werent lazy and did the job to the best of there ability at all times there would be no reason for management threats. Union simply protects the lazy and underqualified and holds the company back. I am in the union and dont like it.

You are a troll and I bet you are lazy! Go Away Troll! Work at Walmart!!!

 

[purplesky]

All union and management should watch their backs now at UPS in this economic period. IT IS SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST AT UPS NOW and working PACKAGE CAR 12 HOURS a day is going to weed out the weak and old. That includes on car SUPS that are old and not needed because they cant perform the job of a driver anymore. This is really more of a mental game . Just keep your eye on the carrot which is the first possible moment you can retire from UPS land. If there was not a union at UPS ALL HELL WOULD BREAK LOOSE. I mean come on guys if you died today and ended up in HELL you would be right back at UPS DRIVING THE TRUCK WITH THE FLAMES ON IT.

 

[purplesky]

When I was 18-21 while going to school, I worked for a large wholesaler.

The drivers were union, but the inside hourlies were not. Two memories that were vivid:

Having to commute through the delivery drivers striking once for a few weeks. Heck, myself and a co-worker actually ran the trucks out to deliver 2 times. If they had known this I would have been harrassed much more coming and going through the picket line. This was a very good learning lesson for me though. They were not playing around!

Secondly, one time managemenet secretly told several people in the operation they were going to fire me for mispicking orders. This is apparently illegal, to spread this type of information without consulting the person you are going to fire first. Therefore it never happened, I threatened them when I found out (a) they spread these rumours and (b) it was illegal. Great part of being young and nothing-to-lose.

I must say, it was a job where there were no rules. I would work 16 hour shifts when it got busy and like it or leave it. I remember going to work some days 3pm and not leaving until 8am. There was no going home, there were no extra breaks, it was what it was. You could either do it or quit. management did not care either way.

I personally dislike the union, but then again, it serves a purpose overall. Some day in the next 5-10 years I will leave it all behind and do what I want, but until then it is coexisting with UPS and the union that is reality.

ANother thing - I find it funny when a steward says "You are a TEAMSTER first before a UPSer". At first in '02 when I started I believed that mentality. But now it is embarrasing. The Teamsters have no interest in YOU. They have interest in the money going into their pocket, much like everyone else. So why should anyone put them first when they don't put their members first?

You are the union. Just like you are the goverment. So make the best of it and enjoy the benefits of both. I think when you start cashing your TEAMSTER pension checks the light bulb will go off in your head and you will realize you are a TEAMSTER that was an UPSER. Its in your best interest my friend that the UNION care about money because its yours also. You should be proud because you will have earned it!

 

[dannyboy]

For many people, Hell is what you make of it.

d

 

[UnconTROLLed]

You are the union. Just like you are the goverment. So make the best of it and enjoy the benefits of both. I think when you start cashing your TEAMSTER pension checks the light bulb will go off in your head and you will realize you are a TEAMSTER that was an UPSER. Its in your best interest my friend that the UNION care about money because its yours also. You should be proud because you will have earned it!

The same union that writes contract language to protect its members from UPS wiggling through loopholes, then when it comes time for UPS to violate the contracts new language regarding the loopholes, the union backs the company and sells out the employee directly in the face of the very own language they negotiated.

No, I am not proud to be sold out by a weak union multiple times.

 

[rocket man]

TO The person who put up this post . Please show your union bussniess agent this post at the next union meeting. IF you even go to them.LET US KNOW WHAT THEY THINK SEEEE YA.

 

[JaxUPSHub]

TO The person who put up this post . Please show your union bussniess agent this post at the next union meeting. IF you even go to them.LET US KNOW WHAT THEY THINK SEEEE YA.

First off I intended NO harm with this post. If you would read my post carefully, you would've seen that I said 'hypothetically speaking'. I understand now why the Union is needed, I handed over my application to our Local, and am proud to be joining. AND:

bussniess

WOW JUST WOW

 

[BrownArmy]

For many people, Hell is what you make of it.

d

Hell is other people.

 

[Catatonic]

Hell is other people.

for some, it is themselves

 

[UPS Lifer]

You are the union. Just like you are the goverment. So make the best of it and enjoy the benefits of both. I think when you start cashing your TEAMSTER pension checks the light bulb will go off in your head and you will realize you are a TEAMSTER that was an UPSER. Its in your best interest my friend that the UNION care about money because its yours also. You should be proud because you will have earned it!

You really don't get it AT ALL. UPS pays your pension not the Teamsters. UPS pays your wages not the Teamsters. UPS pays for all your benefits. Without UPS you have no pension - you have no job - you have no benefits.

YOU can say anything you want but the grim reality is that your pay check and pension vanish if the Teamsters get a strangle hold on the company.

GM & Chrysler are the best examples of a union that had a strangle hold on a company.

--------
Here is another news flash - In the 70's, you never heard of layoffs at UPS.

Now UPS pays so much in for YOUR benefits and pension that they have no choice but to minimize the outcome. If the benefit package which includes health & welfare along with your pension becomes more than the company can handle - UPS has to determine at what point they go into survival mode. When you see layoffs - the company is in survival mode.

You can say your a Teamster first when the Teamsters are signing your check and paying your benefits until then.... You are a UPSer first!

 

[Livin the Dream?]

Serious question - has there ever been a large (fortune 500) company that went from union to non-union? (other than the obvious ones, Eastern Airlines, Bethlehem Steel, etc.)

Can anyone argue against the following; If UPS were not union, the majority of seniority drivers would not have 10-12 hour, over-dispatched days?

Or, that the majority of cover drivers now working 20 hours/week in local sort would actually be driving?

 

[UPS Lifer]

Serious question - has there ever been a large (fortune 500) company that went from union to non-union? (other than the obvious ones, Eastern Airlines, Bethlehem Steel, etc.)

Can anyone argue against the following; If UPS were not union, the majority of seniority drivers would not have 10-12 hour, over-dispatched days?

Or, that the majority of cover drivers now working 20 hours/week in local sort would actually be driving?

I think it is important to state that I am an advocate of the union.

That being said.... Let's take the hypothetical and discuss it.

Chances are that the drivers complete package (wages/benefits/pension) would cost the company less money without the union. SO, chances are that there would be more drivers available. It wouldn't cost the company as much so their would be more drivers to do less work.

A UPS hater will tell you that the company would work the employee to death and fire them at will but that really wouldn't happen. Most states have protection for workers anyway. Firing employees or working them to death costs the company lots of money..... It wouldn't happen!

My guess is that you would see more drivers hired off the street but that the part time workforce would be duel utilized. They would be on call to work in centers. I still think you would see seniority prevail (for vacations) but there would be those managers who would do things the easy way and not the right way. You would see the runners and gunners taken care of and given priority treatment. It would take a really negative attitude in the center to get a manager removed but there would be bell weather signs such as an increase in injuries and accidents and turn over that would probably get noticed by upper management.

Money would be a lot looser and the company would not be worried about losing flexibility items because there would be no union to push the issue.
On the other hand, the company wouldn't have to worry about protecting what little flexibility they had left so it might not be an issue.

Employees would probably get work based on their performance and not seniority. Days off would probably be treated the same way.

You could probably use FedEx as a model. They seem to be thriving OK.

Where the doom sayers (UPS haters) lose credibility is that they think the company will treat the employees like slaves. It ain't gonna happen! They won't want the employees to go union so they will work hard to keep them happy. Turn over costs BIG money so UPS would work hard to keep the employees happy.

 

[Livin the Dream?]

Oh My God, the managers & drivers working together (managers trying to keep trained drivers happy, drivers performing to keep managers happy) work based on ability rather than start date, Managers making decisions rather than quoting emails from Atlanta, More drivers on the road making a living rather than fewer senior drivers overworked/over dispatched, less turnover, both employees & management happy at the same time for the same thing.....total Armageddon. Fire, death, end-of-the-world, dogs & cats sleeping together....

 

[705red]

I think it is important to state that I am an advocate of the union.

That being said.... Let's take the hypothetical and discuss it.

Chances are that the drivers complete package (wages/benefits/pension) would cost the company less money without the union. SO, chances are that there would be more drivers available. It wouldn't cost the company as much so their would be more drivers to do less work.

We have drivers going home every day that still get pension contributions and medical benefits the only thing they do not get is their straight 8 at regular pay. But ups will work the remaining drivers over 9.5 at triple time which ultimately costs the company more money.



A UPS hater will tell you that the company would work the employee to death and fire them at will but that really wouldn't happen. Most states have protection for workers anyway. Firing employees or working them to death costs the company lots of money..... It wouldn't happen!

Maybe you could explain why this is happening now with us being a union work force?

My guess is that you would see more drivers hired off the street but that the part time workforce would be duel utilized. They would be on call to work in centers. I still think you would see seniority prevail (for vacations) but there would be those managers who would do things the easy way and not the right way. You would see the runners and gunners taken care of and given priority treatment. It would take a really negative attitude in the center to get a manager removed but there would be bell weather signs such as an increase in injuries and accidents and turn over that would probably get noticed by upper management.

Money would be a lot looser and the company would not be worried about losing flexibility items because there would be no union to push the issue.
On the other hand, the company wouldn't have to worry about protecting what little flexibility they had left so it might not be an issue.

Employees would probably get work based on their performance and not seniority. Days off would probably be treated the same way.

You could probably use FedEx as a model. They seem to be thriving OK.
FedEx lost 779 million last quarter!

Where the doom sayers (UPS haters) lose credibility is that they think the company will treat the employees like slaves. It ain't gonna happen! They won't want the employees to go union so they will work hard to keep them happy. Turn over costs BIG money so UPS would work hard to keep the employees happy.

You mean like their current management staff? Most management would sign a card today if they had the opportunity to join a union.

I am not a UPS hater, i am a ups driver that worked his way up spending 5 years part time. i have 5 sold sales leads this year alone and another 3 still pending. I am also a union steward so i see all the bad that happens to employees, some deserved but most are just an attempt to beat the employee in to submission. IMO

 

[705red]

Oh My God, the managers & drivers working together (managers trying to keep trained drivers happy, drivers performing to keep managers happy) work based on ability rather than start date, Managers making decisions rather than quoting emails from Atlanta, More drivers on the road making a living rather than fewer senior drivers overworked/over dispatched, less turnover, both employees & management happy at the same time for the same thing.....total Armageddon. Fire, death, end-of-the-world, dogs & cats sleeping together....

You would not be here on this board right now if it wasn't for the union! You would have been fired fro driving on a suspended license, but hey feel free to slam the organization that has you working inside the building still collecting a paycheck.

And the next time you are at the doctor, tell them you feel like paying for you bill out of pocket!

 

[Livin the Dream?]

Nope - you are totally off base - and think about why-

If we were non-union, I would have had the same, bring me into the office interrogation, same bull****, but I would have had a center manager that could have looked at the situation, and MADE A DECISION, and I would have been driving the next day.

I'm not at all slamming UPS, the company that pays my paycheck. But nice try.

Oh, and next time you go to pay your mortgage, tell them you feel like charging the payment on your health-care card.

 

[705red]

Nope - you are totally off base - and think about why-

If we were non-union, I would have had the same, bring me into the office interrogation, same bull****, but I would have had a center manager that could have looked at the situation, and MADE A DECISION, and I would have been driving the next day.

I'm not at all slamming UPS, the company that pays my paycheck. But nice try.

Of course your not slamming UPS, its hard to slam the company when your ankles are swinging out of its rear end!

Without the union you would have been fired! The only thing saving your sorry behind is the contract, why do you think that you are working inside? Its not because your a nice guy, I think time and time again you have proven that. Its because of the contract!

 

[705red]

Oh, and next time you go to pay your mortgage, tell them you feel like charging the payment on your health-care card.

You mean the check that has my hourly wage negotiated for me by the Teamsters?

The teamster negotiated wages that I receive at least allow me to insure my home and family!!!! You know in case some thing bad happens.

 

[Livin the Dream?]

...The only thing saving your sorry behind is the contract, why do you think that you are working inside? Its not because your a nice guy, I think time and time again you have proven that. Its because of the contract!...

Tell me how the contract is saving me, please. Whereas, without a contract, someone would have looked at the facts & made a decision already.

Oh, and next time you go to pay your mortgage, tell them you feel like charging the payment on your health-care card.