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dannyboy
Guest
DAmmor
Was on the phone with my BA when you posted. Said that it was the talk of the panel. This is what happens when too much of the health and welfare money is spent on health benifits instead of retirement. Said that your pension plans were 50% funded, which is not good.
Here ours is funded at close to 100%. They are raising the amount the retiree's payto close to 400 for family coverage.
Its time that UPS employees start taking over the joint councils that make these decisions from being dominated by the freight people. They are running it into the ground, and its our money they are spending. If lucky we might see 10 cents on the dollar.
Time for a overhaul or maybe a revolution?
d
Was on the phone with my BA when you posted. Said that it was the talk of the panel. This is what happens when too much of the health and welfare money is spent on health benifits instead of retirement. Said that your pension plans were 50% funded, which is not good.
Here ours is funded at close to 100%. They are raising the amount the retiree's payto close to 400 for family coverage.
Its time that UPS employees start taking over the joint councils that make these decisions from being dominated by the freight people. They are running it into the ground, and its our money they are spending. If lucky we might see 10 cents on the dollar.
Time for a overhaul or maybe a revolution?
d
J
jeffmcgovern
Guest
Maybe its time for UPS Teamsters to have their own pension fund and quit subsidizing the rest of the industry.
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ezrider
Guest
Dammor I couldn't have said it any better.I'm in my mid-thirties so retirement is still nothing more than just another word in the dictionary to me and reading that press release ticked me off.I'm not sure but something makes me think you're approaching enough years put in that you might be kicking around the idea of retirement.If that's true,then you must have been really pissed after you read it.
Dannyboy,my thinking is a little off as I type this.I had a 13.7 dispatch today and the girlfriend keeps fixing everyone here these strawberry margaritas so I might be in error,but if we can't form our own union(I'm almost positive you suggested that someplace)then we as UPSers better at least start making our voice heard.Not just a few of us either,I mean all of us-together-united.
Business as usual at Central States can't be tolerated anymore,and I'm not sure I'm willing to take some lip service about a recession and low-interest rates short-circuiting the plan's future payouts.Other plans have been able to weather the same short term hazards,why the hell can't this one sustain itself?
I'm starting to think these trustees couldn't keep something as simple as a lemonade stand from going bankrupt even if given the supplies for free and a 100-degree temperature outside.And to think I thought that horrible retirement party in Lakeland,Fl. was a complete slap in the face...
Dannyboy,my thinking is a little off as I type this.I had a 13.7 dispatch today and the girlfriend keeps fixing everyone here these strawberry margaritas so I might be in error,but if we can't form our own union(I'm almost positive you suggested that someplace)then we as UPSers better at least start making our voice heard.Not just a few of us either,I mean all of us-together-united.
Business as usual at Central States can't be tolerated anymore,and I'm not sure I'm willing to take some lip service about a recession and low-interest rates short-circuiting the plan's future payouts.Other plans have been able to weather the same short term hazards,why the hell can't this one sustain itself?
I'm starting to think these trustees couldn't keep something as simple as a lemonade stand from going bankrupt even if given the supplies for free and a 100-degree temperature outside.And to think I thought that horrible retirement party in Lakeland,Fl. was a complete slap in the face...
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pretender
Guest
There are 3 statements from this press release that I believe everyone should ponder:
**this may be small consolation, the crisis at Central States must be put in the context of the national economic crisis and misguided economic policies in Washington.**
**Rest assured, the Union is doing everything in its power to pressure the employers to increase contributions...Yet, the strongest resistance to increasing contributions is coming from some of the Teamsters most powerful employers. Teamster leaders will be at the forefront of the movement to get the employers to share the burden of restoring the Funds long-term health.**
**The current benefit changes, painful as they are, are far less painful than those that could have been imposed on our members by the employers who are motivated solely by corporate profits.**
Yes, I think it is time for a revolution! I am sick of the "Corporate Greed" line that they feed us. I may be in the minority, but I believe that the best offer that UPS ever made (tried) to us, was to take over the pension fund. I say, when the teamsters come to UPS with their hands out, that UPS should counter with the offer to withdraw. We as employees, should do whatever it takes to express our desire to the company to be on our own.
**this may be small consolation, the crisis at Central States must be put in the context of the national economic crisis and misguided economic policies in Washington.**
**Rest assured, the Union is doing everything in its power to pressure the employers to increase contributions...Yet, the strongest resistance to increasing contributions is coming from some of the Teamsters most powerful employers. Teamster leaders will be at the forefront of the movement to get the employers to share the burden of restoring the Funds long-term health.**
**The current benefit changes, painful as they are, are far less painful than those that could have been imposed on our members by the employers who are motivated solely by corporate profits.**
Yes, I think it is time for a revolution! I am sick of the "Corporate Greed" line that they feed us. I may be in the minority, but I believe that the best offer that UPS ever made (tried) to us, was to take over the pension fund. I say, when the teamsters come to UPS with their hands out, that UPS should counter with the offer to withdraw. We as employees, should do whatever it takes to express our desire to the company to be on our own.
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my2cents
Guest
Whoa! On top of this you guys have a Federal Judge who oversees the Fund. Wasn't aware of that. How long have the current set of trutees been on the board? If there is general discontent with them, maybe a recall petition could be a place to start, even if it may only be symbolic in nature.
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upsdude
Guest
"Said that your pension plans were 50% funded, which is not good."
I could be wrong, but I think that employer run pension funds are required to be 90-95% funded. If they fall below that number the covered employees must be notified ASAP. Union controlled funds are under far less regulation. Sadly, most folks will let this problem slide by again during the next negotiations.
I could be wrong, but I think that employer run pension funds are required to be 90-95% funded. If they fall below that number the covered employees must be notified ASAP. Union controlled funds are under far less regulation. Sadly, most folks will let this problem slide by again during the next negotiations.
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wkmac
Guest
upsdude,
You're right. Most people will just let it slide. The sad part was there was so much disinfomation going around in 97' we couldn't even have an honest and open discussion about various retirement options and now here we are. I was hoping it would be avoided but I'm not surprised at all.
Now for the union to blame Washington and it's so-called policies is just out and out BULLSCHITTT!!! It's nothing more than the same irresponsible types who have ripped the individualist fabric out of this country and replaced it with the nanny state to begin with. And the problem extends across both party lines. The union even trys to place it's members in that perilous position as we can well see now. Rather than standing up and facing the truth and speaking the truth they just bait and switch. From the way I see this whole deal the union and the trustees are doing "EXACTLY" what they said the company would do in 1997'.
ezrider, like several of these guys I too "WAS" looking at retirement in about 7 years but that appears gone now. Some advice to you since you are in your 30's. If you aren't in the 401k get in now and save at the max level asap. The less you count on someone else and the more you are in position to take care of things yourself the far better off you are.
The wife and I went out to dinner last night and for the first time in 22 years of working with UPS we discussed my leaving the company. I just turned 47 and if I have to work another 20 years because of the pension situation either because of economic limitations because of age or work restrictions after I retire why not look at other options and what they might afford. The sad part is I'm not thinking of leaving UPS because of UPS but rather because of the union and it's policies. The next few weeks and months will be real important for all UPSers as we go forward into this cesspool of what I believe is corruption and mismanagement. Some spoke of revolution and yes you are right. We need a revolution but TDU ain't the answer either. I supported TDU in the 80's and early 90's because of the corruption but Carey woke me up to what that whole agenda was really all about. It's time we start thinking as UPSers and what is best for us not what is best for the IBT. It time the large silent majority of UPS union members to stand up and speak out. JMO!
You're right. Most people will just let it slide. The sad part was there was so much disinfomation going around in 97' we couldn't even have an honest and open discussion about various retirement options and now here we are. I was hoping it would be avoided but I'm not surprised at all.
Now for the union to blame Washington and it's so-called policies is just out and out BULLSCHITTT!!! It's nothing more than the same irresponsible types who have ripped the individualist fabric out of this country and replaced it with the nanny state to begin with. And the problem extends across both party lines. The union even trys to place it's members in that perilous position as we can well see now. Rather than standing up and facing the truth and speaking the truth they just bait and switch. From the way I see this whole deal the union and the trustees are doing "EXACTLY" what they said the company would do in 1997'.
ezrider, like several of these guys I too "WAS" looking at retirement in about 7 years but that appears gone now. Some advice to you since you are in your 30's. If you aren't in the 401k get in now and save at the max level asap. The less you count on someone else and the more you are in position to take care of things yourself the far better off you are.
The wife and I went out to dinner last night and for the first time in 22 years of working with UPS we discussed my leaving the company. I just turned 47 and if I have to work another 20 years because of the pension situation either because of economic limitations because of age or work restrictions after I retire why not look at other options and what they might afford. The sad part is I'm not thinking of leaving UPS because of UPS but rather because of the union and it's policies. The next few weeks and months will be real important for all UPSers as we go forward into this cesspool of what I believe is corruption and mismanagement. Some spoke of revolution and yes you are right. We need a revolution but TDU ain't the answer either. I supported TDU in the 80's and early 90's because of the corruption but Carey woke me up to what that whole agenda was really all about. It's time we start thinking as UPSers and what is best for us not what is best for the IBT. It time the large silent majority of UPS union members to stand up and speak out. JMO!
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wkmac
Guest
pretender,
Let's start a new tagline.
UNION GREED!!!!!!
Let's start a new tagline.
UNION GREED!!!!!!
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proups
Guest
The problem with Central States is that it was, up until the Feds started looking, nothing more than a slush fund for Teamster leadership.
Then you add in the problem of having to pay retirees from companies that are no longer in business, thus no more contributions, and the Teamsters have a real problem.
Their line of corporate greed is to set the stage for future negotiations with employers, including UPS in 2007. Imagine the uproar they could cause by taking us back to the picket lines on our 100th anniversary - a definite media opportunity for Teamster leadership and the AFL-CIO.
IMHO unions have outlived their usefullness when they start tactics like this.
Then you add in the problem of having to pay retirees from companies that are no longer in business, thus no more contributions, and the Teamsters have a real problem.
Their line of corporate greed is to set the stage for future negotiations with employers, including UPS in 2007. Imagine the uproar they could cause by taking us back to the picket lines on our 100th anniversary - a definite media opportunity for Teamster leadership and the AFL-CIO.
IMHO unions have outlived their usefullness when they start tactics like this.
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wkmac
Guest
proups,
A strike in 2008' when the contract ends would be the union death nail the way things are going right now. Nobody would walk. Everyone has talked about the company wanting to destroy the union but the funny part is the company has sat back and is just letting the union destroy itself.
Now here's something to consider but it probably won't go over to well with some folks. Is it possible that the company was farsighted enough to see the financial trainwreck that is Central States coming back in 97' and wanted to get us UPSers off the tracks by proposing to take over the retirement and H & W benefits? Sure there were many secondary benefits as well but could that have been the primary reason? Ironic thought is it not?
A strike in 2008' when the contract ends would be the union death nail the way things are going right now. Nobody would walk. Everyone has talked about the company wanting to destroy the union but the funny part is the company has sat back and is just letting the union destroy itself.
Now here's something to consider but it probably won't go over to well with some folks. Is it possible that the company was farsighted enough to see the financial trainwreck that is Central States coming back in 97' and wanted to get us UPSers off the tracks by proposing to take over the retirement and H & W benefits? Sure there were many secondary benefits as well but could that have been the primary reason? Ironic thought is it not?
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wkmac
Guest
I think we had that chance in 97' and we could have setup an independent fund with protections from both the company and the union but we choose a different course that we are now paying for today. If enough groundswell takes place now the company may entertain this again but the problem is this time they truly have the upper hand whereas in 97' UPS employees could have had both the union and the company by the family jewels so to speak at the table. JMO
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my2cents
Guest
I wonder how close Central States is to having the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation taking it over, although the overall health of this government entity isn't great either. It would be a travesty to see the taxpayer have to foot the bill for this mess, if it should go this route.
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local804
Guest
Statement by James P. Hoffa on Benefit Changes at Central States Funds
November 21, 2003
The benefit changes ordered by Federal Judge Moran and implemented by the Central States Fund Trustees are disturbing to everyone.
The pension and health care crisis that is gripping our nation has
hit the Central States Funds like hundreds of other funds and plans around the nation. The blame for the crisis can be placed squarely on Washington, Wall Street and the corporations that are shipping jobs overseas.
In the last round of negotiations with UPS and Freight we negotiated contributions to the Funds that were double what was negotiated in the previous round of negotiations. The contribution rate pattern was set in the first half of 2002 at UPS. At the time we were assured by Fund actuaries that the contributions we negotiated would be sufficient to maintain health benefits and pension benefits. But further acceleration in health care costs, the bankruptcy of Consolidated Freight, and the sharp decline in investments in late 2002 following the Enron, Worldcom, Tyco, and other scandals, undermined those calculations.
The perfect storm of a three year fall in the stock market,
historically low interest rates, accelerating health care costs, and
the bankruptcy of major Fund employers like Consolidated Freightways was not predicted by anyone. But that is the reality we confront today and it is the reality the Fund Trustees were forced to address both by necessity and by court order.
Rest assured that the Teamsters Union is fully engaged in finding
solutions to the pension and health care crisis. First and foremost,
we have communicated with UPS and the major Freight employers that the future security of the Fund and the benefits of our members depend on increased employer contributions to the Funds. Second, as we speak, our lobbyists are on Capitol Hill working for legislation that will give Funds like Central States some breathing room by extending the time over which Fund liabilities are accounted for. Third, the Teamsters Union is playing a leading role in the national effort to win universal health insurance that would ensure the health care of every American.
Teamster members in the Central States Funds can be certain that the Teamsters Union will do whatever we can to defend your pension and health security today and in the future.
November 21, 2003
The benefit changes ordered by Federal Judge Moran and implemented by the Central States Fund Trustees are disturbing to everyone.
The pension and health care crisis that is gripping our nation has
hit the Central States Funds like hundreds of other funds and plans around the nation. The blame for the crisis can be placed squarely on Washington, Wall Street and the corporations that are shipping jobs overseas.
In the last round of negotiations with UPS and Freight we negotiated contributions to the Funds that were double what was negotiated in the previous round of negotiations. The contribution rate pattern was set in the first half of 2002 at UPS. At the time we were assured by Fund actuaries that the contributions we negotiated would be sufficient to maintain health benefits and pension benefits. But further acceleration in health care costs, the bankruptcy of Consolidated Freight, and the sharp decline in investments in late 2002 following the Enron, Worldcom, Tyco, and other scandals, undermined those calculations.
The perfect storm of a three year fall in the stock market,
historically low interest rates, accelerating health care costs, and
the bankruptcy of major Fund employers like Consolidated Freightways was not predicted by anyone. But that is the reality we confront today and it is the reality the Fund Trustees were forced to address both by necessity and by court order.
Rest assured that the Teamsters Union is fully engaged in finding
solutions to the pension and health care crisis. First and foremost,
we have communicated with UPS and the major Freight employers that the future security of the Fund and the benefits of our members depend on increased employer contributions to the Funds. Second, as we speak, our lobbyists are on Capitol Hill working for legislation that will give Funds like Central States some breathing room by extending the time over which Fund liabilities are accounted for. Third, the Teamsters Union is playing a leading role in the national effort to win universal health insurance that would ensure the health care of every American.
Teamster members in the Central States Funds can be certain that the Teamsters Union will do whatever we can to defend your pension and health security today and in the future.
M
my2cents
Guest
So the Teamsters endorse national health insurance. Brilliant. My decision to resign my membership looks better all the time. I would never voluntarily support any group that advocates this position.
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proups
Guest
How did Consolidated Freight go bankrupt?
Hmmmm....wasn't that the truck line that fought the Teamsters and would not give in to their demands during their last negotiations? They lost a lot of customers while the Teamsters held them hostage. Now who is paying for it?
Hoffa thinks he is going to hold others accountable for the stupid actions of the Teamsters. Get real.
Hmmmm....wasn't that the truck line that fought the Teamsters and would not give in to their demands during their last negotiations? They lost a lot of customers while the Teamsters held them hostage. Now who is paying for it?
Hoffa thinks he is going to hold others accountable for the stupid actions of the Teamsters. Get real.
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wkmac
Guest
Teamsters as well as many corp. entities endorse national health care because it reduces the burden on them. One of the driving concerns right now over the prescription drug benefit with medicare is the fear that folks who are currently covered by a private plan provided with their retirement plan will see that coverage gone as the private plans will use the new medicare benefit to leverage their own withdrawal and protect their company assets and earnings bottomline.
National Healthcare would free up massive amounts of dollars that corporations and other enities currently spend for this process. But you say they'll pay higher taxes in order to pay for this. Do you think for one moment that GM will eat those tax costs or will it go into what you pay for that new car you want on the lot? Yes, our individual taxes will go up and our consumer prices will go up as well so we'll get the double whammee! It's no surprise that Teamsters want national healthcare in that much of the current problem at Central States might go away. It's just another private entity who made a mess and want the gov't to come in and clean it up. I'm finding a hard time telling the difference between the IBT and Enron these days!
National Healthcare would free up massive amounts of dollars that corporations and other enities currently spend for this process. But you say they'll pay higher taxes in order to pay for this. Do you think for one moment that GM will eat those tax costs or will it go into what you pay for that new car you want on the lot? Yes, our individual taxes will go up and our consumer prices will go up as well so we'll get the double whammee! It's no surprise that Teamsters want national healthcare in that much of the current problem at Central States might go away. It's just another private entity who made a mess and want the gov't to come in and clean it up. I'm finding a hard time telling the difference between the IBT and Enron these days!
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my2cents
Guest
Tell ya what. If national health care becomes a reality, this country will have definitely lost its way from the Founders intent. America was never intended to become a socialist paradise. Oh, the joys of going on a waiting list for special surguries and treatments. The older you are, the longer you have to wait. Death is a surefire way to keep health care costs down and dead people don't complain either.
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sendagain6160
Guest
Has anyone out there got the final figures or know when we will find out what they are proposing?It looks like a lot of us Arkansans are gonna have to change our retirement plans....
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pretender
Guest
wkmac: I like it--UNION GREED!
As far as I am concerned, the main goal of the Union, is to keep us dependant on them...Yes, I am sure that without the Union, we would not be making the kind of wages that we do--However, maybe UPS might be willing to hire more drivers; and I wouldn't have to work until 8:00pm every night.
What infuriates me, is to be side by side at a dock with a Roadway driver. While I am inside finger-printing 150 packages, he is taking a nap inside his cab, while he is being unloaded. When/if we retire, our benefits will be the same/similar??
I agree that TDU is probably not the answer. Just think--I unwittingly helped to elect Bill Clinton.
As far as I am concerned, the main goal of the Union, is to keep us dependant on them...Yes, I am sure that without the Union, we would not be making the kind of wages that we do--However, maybe UPS might be willing to hire more drivers; and I wouldn't have to work until 8:00pm every night.
What infuriates me, is to be side by side at a dock with a Roadway driver. While I am inside finger-printing 150 packages, he is taking a nap inside his cab, while he is being unloaded. When/if we retire, our benefits will be the same/similar??
I agree that TDU is probably not the answer. Just think--I unwittingly helped to elect Bill Clinton.
