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Thoroughbred Teamster

Well-Known Member
A few of us in my center went through the training. They told us straight up we were chosen due to over allowed. I ran it by my BA about it being harassment. Next day I was told everyone will receive the training. It's the runner gunners who need training on methods. I know I'm not perfect on methods, but trying to follow them as best I can is one of the main things that slows me down. If I actually aimed for perfection, we'd be looking at another hour over allowed, easy.
We all got the highest over allowed as well. I'm not perfect either but I'm consistent. Agreed it should be the burners taking it. I do my best and make sure every minute is accounted for on route. I assume they're watching me at all times whether in person or on their new little tracker gadgets. Been doing this for 18 years, my management team MAYBE has a total of 3 years driving between them.
 

Overpaid Union Thug

Well-Known Member
A few of us in my center went through the training. They told us straight up we were chosen due to over allowed. I ran it by my BA about it being harassment. Next day I was told everyone will receive the training. It's the runner gunners who need training on methods. I know I'm not perfect on methods, but trying to follow them as best I can is one of the main things that slows me down. If I actually aimed for perfection, we'd be looking at another hour over allowed, easy.
Was the training done in similar working conditions as an average day (poorly loaded truck while running ORION and constantly digging stops out of the back instead of front to back) on route? If not then why time anyone at all?
 

zubenelgenubi

Well-Known Member
Was the training done in similar working conditions as an average day (poorly loaded truck while running ORION and constantly digging stops out of the back instead of front to back) on route? If not then why time anyone at all?
Of course not. The whole thing was a waste of time. We all did everything faster than what UPS thinks we should be doing it. Hmmm.... well if that stuff isn't slowing us down, I wonder what the problem might be? Maybe instead of shifting blame onto drivers who do honest work, UPS could invest in fixing the real problems.
 

542thruNthru

Well-Known Member
Of course not. The whole thing was a waste of time. We all did everything faster than what UPS thinks we should be doing it. Hmmm.... well if that stuff isn't slowing us down, I wonder what the problem might be? Maybe instead of shifting blame onto drivers who do honest work, UPS could invest in fixing the real problems.
Exactly what happen here. It's all a bunch of BS.
 

Overpaid Union Thug

Well-Known Member
Of course not. The whole thing was a waste of time. We all did everything faster than what UPS thinks we should be doing it. Hmmm.... well if that stuff isn't slowing us down, I wonder what the problem might be? Maybe instead of shifting blame onto drivers who do honest work, UPS could invest in fixing the real problems.
Exactly what happen here. It's all a bunch of BS.
It’s harassment and they will likely try and use the documented results against any driver that took the training and still doesn’t “perform.” Not filing harassment strengthens their tactics.
 

zubenelgenubi

Well-Known Member
It’s harassment and they will likely try and use the documented results against any driver that took the training and still doesn’t “perform.” Not filing harassment strengthens their tactics.
In this particular case I felt that the difference between training and harassment was people being singled out. They can try to use this against us, but the last vojs I had showed me "losing time" in completely different ways than what we trained on. Plus, fair day's work is still the contractual standard.

They did it for every driver. Called it a methods class.
I agree that UPS can give whatever training it wants. Once they gave the training to everyone, I had no issue.
 

Overpaid Union Thug

Well-Known Member
They did it for every driver. Called it a methods class.
In this particular case I felt that the difference between training and harassment was people being singled out. They can try to use this against us, but the last vojs I had showed me "losing time" in completely different ways than what we trained on. Plus, fair day's work is still the contractual standard.



I agree that UPS can give whatever training it wants. Once they gave the training to everyone, I had no issue.
Clever on their part. It just shows that they are fully aware that it is, in fact, harassment unless it’s across the board. Hopefully no one was/is stupid enough to sign any documentation that was produced as a result of that class.
 

zubenelgenubi

Well-Known Member
Clever on their part. It just shows that they are fully aware that it is, in fact, harassment unless it’s across the board. Hopefully no one was/is stupid enough to sign any documentation that was produced as a result of that class.
I never worry about signing stuff. Article 6 section 1 prohibits extra-contractual agreements. They can't use any of it against us.
 

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
I never worry about signing stuff. Article 6 section 1 prohibits extra-contractual agreements. They can't use any of it against us.
You say this like it's an impartial court system, comprised of a jury of your peers.

Let me ask you this, if you have to get the government involved, do you think these signed documents will carry any weight then?
 

zubenelgenubi

Well-Known Member
You say this like it's an impartial court system, comprised of a jury of your peers.

Let me ask you this, if you have to get the government involved, do you think these signed documents will carry any weight then?
Maybe I am naive. None of it matters anyway, language in the contract is poorly written, panel decisions change the way the contract is interpreted and enforced. How would anyone be expected to keep up with "the rules". If we can't count on either party to actually govern the relationship according to the document they negotiated and agreed on, then there may as well be no contract.

I would love to see a judicial review of the contract, the grievance procedures, and how unevenly and haphazardly the contract has been enforced. We tell everyone to read the contract so they know their rights, but It's pointless. "Oh, a panel decision twenty years ago completely destroyed that part of the contract, and no one has bothered to update the language so it is clear and understandable."

If you have questions, ask your BA? That's a farce, when they don't know they just make something up so you will go away. The truth is we are all stumbling and bumbling through this situation, blindly, day in and day out. We survive by not much more than pure luck, and we either don't know it, or refuse to accept it.
 

zubenelgenubi

Well-Known Member
Let me ask you this, if you have to get the government involved, do you think these signed documents will carry any weight then?
Sorry about the rant, I was a little cranky this morning. To answer your question: the only "government" involvement in contractual issues would involve the courts. I would expect a judge to see article 6 section 1 and understand that any attempt to make deals with union members outside of the contract would be a breach of the contract. If the scope of said breaches were to be brought to light in the proceedings, I imagine the judge would impose severe sanctions against the company.
 

Overpaid Union Thug

Well-Known Member
Sorry about the rant, I was a little cranky this morning. To answer your question: the only "government" involvement in contractual issues would involve the courts. I would expect a judge to see article 6 section 1 and understand that any attempt to make deals with union members outside of the contract would be a breach of the contract. If the scope of said breaches were to be brought to light in the proceedings, I imagine the judge would impose severe sanctions against the company.
UPs has been known to firing people knowing damn well that they’ll get their jobs back but still do so because the temporary loss of income is still a de facto punishment. Signing their documents opens the door to that tactic.
 

zubenelgenubi

Well-Known Member
UPs has been known to firing people knowing damn well that they’ll get their jobs back but still do so because the temporary loss of income is still a de facto punishment. Signing their documents opens the door to that tactic.
Which is something I think could be challenged in a class action lawsuit, since the union isn't putting a stop to it.
 

Thoroughbred Teamster

Well-Known Member
Was the training done in similar working conditions as an average day (poorly loaded truck while running ORION and constantly digging stops out of the back instead of front to back) on route? If not then why time anyone at all?
Wasn't realistic at all. The time was just to give us a visual of the computed averages of time allowances we get for each component of a delivery.
 

Thoroughbred Teamster

Well-Known Member
I went into the "class" with resentment for being targeted but by the end I just looked at it as being easy money. It was laid back. They asked for feedback today and I gave it to them. Suggested all drivers get the class annually. They agreed and thought mix it up with high seniority & low seniority, which sounds good but I know it won't happen. Told them from this point forward if I continue to be singled out I will take action. The only thing I got from the class wasn't even taught to me, but I realized I needed to focus more. We didn't sign anything. Really not too concerned about it.

Funny thing is management forgot to change our start times back to normal for next week so I'll be there for that, at least until they change it.
 
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