Class-action grievance against Integrad.

[bottomups]

Wish I had access to one of these last month.
Would never have taken a dive and ruptured my rotator cuff.

 

[Signature Only]

For a fraction of the cost of all the INTEGRAD training, they could simply enhance the training experience at the new hires home center by excluding his/her stops from the center's daily SPORH average. This would allow the center manager and on-car to break the new hire in gradually and be more methodical in terms of teaching proper methods rather than having to scream at them to run faster from day one. Instead of forcing the center manager to worry about "how is this new guy making me look on todays report?" the question should be "how well am I doing at training this person for a safe, productive, long-term career as a UPS driver?"

I don't know about other centers but my first week I had 4 to 6 hour days.

The 2nd week: 8 hour days Monday & Tuesday without pickups. Wed - Fri were 8 hour with pickups.

The 3rd week: 8 hour days with pickups.

The 4th week: Full days 8 to 11 hours on my own.

That was 23 years ago and every driver started the same way back then and they're all relatively healthy, productive drivers.

But that was a long time ago.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Integrad teaches a little but it would be faster and cheaper to learn those basics in your home center. Plus get more real world experience instead of only learning how things are supposed to work in Clarksville.

No , integrad doesn't teach anything, just ask those who never went through it.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Anyone who's says "anyone that says integral is a total waste of time has zero idea what they are talking about" is clearly a management fan boy or blind to the fact that drivers that went to Integrad are not better equipped to start their jobs when they return to their centers than the drivers that didn't attend Integrad. They aren't. In fact....all of the drivers that intended Integrad in my center have had at least one minor accident in their first 6 months of driving and have had the same problems that each and every new driver in the history of UPS has had. When you consider that and the fact that UPS spent allot of money (much more than would have had the driver stayed home and trained at his ow center) to send those people to Integrad then it's clear that Integrad, much like ORION, is an epic waste of money. The training a driver needs can and SHOULD be done completely at their home center by an On Car sup and/or an actual driver and at a tiny fraction of the price. UPS will lie and say otherwise but the return in investment for Integrad is embarrassingly low. It has ended up being nothing more than a public relations scheme and lie to impress the stock holders. Nothing more...nothing less.

You are making a lot of assumptions and now you backtracked. At first, it was "drivers learn nothing at integrad", now it's "drivers learn the same trained in their home centers by O.C's". You already back-tracked there.

The fact is that future drivers do learn with Integrad, and yes it's actually a decent program for new drivers. That does NOT mean it is not an epic waste of money. I agree 100%, it is a waste of money.

The fact that YOUR tiny center and it's sample size of Integrad drivers impresses you, doesn't mean it reflects upon everywhere else. In our hub (where we have hundreds of drivers), I know many that went through Integrad and never had accidents and are doing just fine. And they would agree that it was a fairly useful program. And guess what, that sample size isn't large enough to begin to make assumptions as you are.

The sad part about Integrad is that none of the crap they are being taught there will be of any help to them under actual operational conditions. Shiny boots and the ability to recite acronyms are no substitute for real-world experience and area knowledge.

Yeah, absolutely nothing of use is learned. It's just acronyms for 40 hours.

 

[soberups]

The fact is that future drivers do learn with Integrad, and yes it's actually a decent program for new drivers. That does NOT mean it is not an epic waste of money. I agree 100%, it is a waste of money.

Perhaps the contradiction makes sense to you, but not to me.

You say it is a "decent program" but then in the same sentence you agree 100% that it is an " epic waste of money."

If the goal of the program is to provide useful information and real-world training to future UPS drivers, and the program is "decent", then how can it also be an "epic waste of money?"

The answer, in my opinion, is that the program does a "decent" job of teaching prospective drivers a bunch of commentaries and acronyms and word games that aren't going to benefit them once they get to the real world of an operational package center.

 

[soberups]

Yeah, absolutely nothing of use is learned. It's just acronyms for 40 hours.

Sounds like a Safety Committee meeting, only in a fancy hotel.

 

[oldngray]

Sounds like a Safety Committee meeting, only in a fancy hotel.

They stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night !

 

[bottomups]

You want to train new service providers to be the best? Let them learn from the best in the business and bring back drivers training drivers.

 

[10 point]

Class action against Integrand? Why isn't it against UPS? Is Integrad a separate entity or should your post say "Integrand training"?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I was sent to driving school at about the 10 year point of my career. Back then it was two weeks long and it rotated between Albany and Syracuse (NY). Those who worked in or near either of those two hubs were allowed to go home every day while those who had to travel 50 or more miles were put up in a hotel and paid mileage for the round trip from their home center. The training consisted of 4 days in the classroom and 1 day on road for each of the two weeks. Our class had a wide range of "students", from new hires, both hourly and management, to veteran drivers such as myself. Unlike Integrad, there was not as much emphasis on the more trivial parts of the job, such as uniform appearance standards and the DOK, and more on how to do the job. The DIAD was still in it's early stages of development and implementation and much time was spent learning how to use it. We all worked together to make sure everyone graduated from the class.

I will say that the same level of training could be provided in one week at the center level through a combination of classroom and on-road training.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

You say it is a "decent program" but then in the same sentence you agree 100% that it is an " epic waste of money."

I said it was a waste of money, which it is. That does not mean it is a useless program. And what I said was "decent program FOR NEW DRIVERS"; you can't even take the time to quote me properly, intellectual dishonesty.

 

[Re-Raise]

I said it was a waste of money, which it is. That does not mean it is a useless program. And what I said was "decent program FOR NEW DRIVERS"; you can't even take the time to quote me properly, intellectual dishonesty.

waste of money=decent program ???

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

I said it was a waste of money, which it is. That does not mean it is a useless program. And what I said was "decent program FOR NEW DRIVERS"; you can't even take the time to quote me properly, intellectual dishonesty.

What? Really? Ok lets review:

Ok I started with.......

I've always said that Integrad is an epic waste of money. Just like ORION.

Then you said......

Anyone who says integrad is a "total waste of time", has zero idea what they are talking about and probably never went through integrad. Sorry overpaidunion thug and whoever else, you are wrong.

HOWEVER, it is an indoctrination center, that remains. It's basically conditioning to become a hamster in the wheel.

Me again.....

Anyone who's says "anyone that says integral is a total waste of time has zero idea what they are talking about" is clearly a management fan boy or blind to the fact that drivers that went to Integrad are not better equipped to start their jobs when they return to their centers than the drivers that didn't attend Integrad. They aren't. In fact....all of the drivers that intended Integrad in my center have had at least one minor accident in their first 6 months of driving and have had the same problems that each and every new driver in the history of UPS has had. When you consider that and the fact that UPS spent allot of money (much more than would have had the driver stayed home and trained at his ow center) to send those people to Integrad then it's clear that Integrad, much like ORION, is an epic waste of money. The training a driver needs can and SHOULD be done completely at their home center by an On Car sup and/or an actual driver and at a tiny fraction of the price. UPS will lie and say otherwise but the return in investment for Integrad is embarrassingly low. It has ended up being nothing more than a public relations scheme and lie to impress the stock holders. Nothing more...nothing less.I've never had an On Car sup that couldn't train a new driver at least the basic fundamentals of delivering. I've had three already that had never been a driver before but since they had learned the basics they all essentially ended up being good trainers with zero area knowledge. Well guess what..?....?.....at best that is exactly what Integrad provides for a trainee. So, why not save the money and let the trainees stay at home and learn from on On Car? Especially when you consider the fact that most On Cars (unless they are brand spanking new) have been on a training route enough to train a new driver.

Integrad is a waste of money. Plain and simple. Now on to ORION......

You again.....

You are making a lot of assumptions and now you backtracked. At first, it was "drivers learn nothing at integrad", now it's "drivers learn the same trained in their home centers by O.C's". You already back-tracked there.

I never said that trainees learned nothing. In fact...I clearly stated that they learn the same thing they would learn at home center (which is my whole point). But nice try.

Well then lets proceed for the good part......

Your next comment......

The fact is that future drivers do learn with Integrad, and yes it's actually a decent program for new drivers. That does NOT mean it is not an epic waste of money. I agree 100%, it is a waste of money.

WOW! Who did you say was back tracking again??

You again......

The fact that YOUR tiny center and it's sample size of Integrad drivers impresses you, doesn't mean it reflects upon everywhere else. In our hub (where we have hundreds of drivers), I know many that went through Integrad and never had accidents and are doing just fine. And they would agree that it was a fairly useful program. And guess what, that sample size isn't large enough to begin to make assumptions as you are.

How would a new driver that's been to Integrad know whether to not the training they received was any better than what they would have received at their home center? Let alone whether or not it was more cost effective? They wouldn't. But those of us that haven't been to Integrad can clearly see (through their actions) that those that have are not better equipped to do their jobs when they return. At best they have a tiny amount more of DIAD training. If that.

Then you said this.....

I said it was a waste of money, which it is. That does not mean it is a useless program. And what I said was "decent program FOR NEW DRIVERS"; you can't even take the time to quote me properly, intellectual dishonesty.

Summary: you are the one that backtracked and ended up saying it is a waste of money....just like I said in the beginning.....and are shifting the argument to whether or not you think it is useful. And there is where you are completely missing the point but I will spell it out for you......

It is foolish to spend money on hotels, airfare, and any other necessity needed to accommodate a trainees needs, just to send them to Integrad to learn EXACTLY what even the most unseasoned On Car supervisor can teach the trainee for a fraction of the cost at their home center. And that can be done while working in the actual areas the driver will be working in. Sending a trainee to Integrad and then back to their home center with, at best, the same knowledge they could quickly pick up at their home center is a lousy return on the investment.

 

[Re-Raise]

Sleeve meet heart tried driving and gave it up to go back to work in the building, if I remember right. He does believe he is some kind of weather expert or something.

 

[soberups]

Class action against Integrand? Why isn't it against UPS? Is Integrad a separate entity or should your post say "Integrand training"?

Correct, it should say "Integrad training."

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Sober said it was a total waste of time for new package car drivers. It's not a total waste of time and I stand by that.

And now

Sending a trainee to Integrad and then back to their home center with, at best, the same knowledge they could quickly pick up at their home center is a lousy return on the investment.

Whoa wait a second, are you saying drivers do learn at Integrad? So maybe union thug, you have a disagreement with Sober and not I...

That doesn't mean it is not a waste of money, since drivers could easily be trained for less $, equally or better as well, in more cost-effective ways

 

[soberups]

...Summary: you are the one that backtracked and ended up saying it is a waste of money....just like I said in the beginning.....and are shifting the argument to whether or not you think it is useful. And there is where you are completely missing the point but I will spell it out for you......

It is foolish to spend money on hotels, airfare, and any other necessity needed to accommodate a trainees needs, just to send them to Integrad to learn EXACTLY what even the most unseasoned On Car supervisor can teach the trainee for a fraction of the cost at their home center. And that can be done while working in the actual areas the driver will be working in. Sending a trainee to Integrad and then back to their home center with, at best, the same knowledge they could quickly pick up at their home center is a lousy return on the investment.

Checkmate!

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Sober said it was a total waste of time for new package car drivers. It's not a total waste of time and I stand by that.

And now

Whoa wait a second, are you saying drivers do learn at Integrad? So maybe union thug, you have a disagreement with Sober and not I...

That doesn't mean it is not a waste of money, since drivers could easily be trained for less $, equally or better as well, in more cost-effective ways

You can't dig yourself out of a hole that deep tiger. So give it a rest.

 

[10 point]

I was sent to driving school at about the 10 year point of my career. Back then it was two weeks long and it rotated between Albany and Syracuse (NY). Those who worked in or near either of those two hubs were allowed to go home every day while those who had to travel 50 or more miles were put up in a hotel and paid mileage for the round trip from their home center. The training consisted of 4 days in the classroom and 1 day on road for each of the two weeks. Our class had a wide range of "students", from new hires, both hourly and management, to veteran drivers such as myself. Unlike Integrad, there was not as much emphasis on the more trivial parts of the job, such as uniform appearance standards and the DOK, and more on how to do the job. The DIAD was still in it's early stages of development and implementation and much time was spent learning how to use it. We all worked together to make sure everyone graduated from the class.

I will say that the same level of training could be provided in one week at the center level through a combination of classroom and on-road training.

Training is only as good as the trainer.

Our experience is that is conducted by supes who are great at reading forms but lack the ability to train in an applicable comprehensive way that is well rounded.

A new prospective driver in his thirty day period told me that his ft supe trainer (15-16 yrs of ft experience) told him to walk thru the yards if it was closer and quicker.

The same supe passes out the DOK questions and sits in on the safety committee meetings.

 

[10 point]

I'd also like to add that its the same supervisor that passes out the warning letters for not working safely. Cannot stand hypocrites.