not really im an oms and i make NOWHERE NEAR 2000 a month part time. oms job sucks managerspass us off as sups but we have no right, perks, or PAY as sups. not to mention we have no power.
class action lawsuit against UPS
- Thread starter sendagain
- Start date
not really im an oms and i make NOWHERE NEAR 2000 a month part time. oms job sucks managerspass us off as sups but we have no right, perks, or PAY as sups. not to mention we have no power.
Iconoclast
Well-Known Member
Tieguy - Fdx just settled one in California ( imagine that same state) for 55 million. Lawsuit accused them of discrimanatory practices because of a pre-employment test they required.
You need to pull your emphatic No and rethink your position. The class action lawsuit climate in california is forcing a lot of large companies to settle on these fishing expeditions. Fdx is either discriminating in a time of shrinking labor pools or the legal language in this state is so tilted against them that they feel they can not win.
Now if you feel that justice was served on behalf of those who could not pass this pre-employment test then move on, if however you think the latter is the case then you have a real potential crisis in which companies who feel the conditions in California are unfavorable will move out. Oops never mind already happening.
PagnPink said it best -
I, too, took a logic class in college where you break down questions, and in a fashion similar to mathematics, determine whether they are true or false. There are many types of fallacious (false) arguments, often labeled in Latin, such as those labeled "ad ignoratium" or "argument from ignorance". An example would be "I have never seen a yellow dog, so therefore there are no yellow dogs" The fact that you have never seen a yellow dog doesn't prove that there are none. The type of argument cited above by some people in a previous post is called, in simple terms," begging the question" , because the answer is already assumed in the question
How you can make such sweeping assimilations betwix meritless lawsuits and ones with teeth is beyond comprehension, unless, you are just begging the question.
You made some definitive statements about this suit, do you care to back any of that up with logical examples, dutiful thought or educated hypothesis? Or, will your answer to this post be a single sentence hinged on semantics?
You need to pull your emphatic No and rethink your position. The class action lawsuit climate in california is forcing a lot of large companies to settle on these fishing expeditions. Fdx is either discriminating in a time of shrinking labor pools or the legal language in this state is so tilted against them that they feel they can not win.
Now if you feel that justice was served on behalf of those who could not pass this pre-employment test then move on, if however you think the latter is the case then you have a real potential crisis in which companies who feel the conditions in California are unfavorable will move out. Oops never mind already happening.
PagnPink said it best -
I, too, took a logic class in college where you break down questions, and in a fashion similar to mathematics, determine whether they are true or false. There are many types of fallacious (false) arguments, often labeled in Latin, such as those labeled "ad ignoratium" or "argument from ignorance". An example would be "I have never seen a yellow dog, so therefore there are no yellow dogs" The fact that you have never seen a yellow dog doesn't prove that there are none. The type of argument cited above by some people in a previous post is called, in simple terms," begging the question" , because the answer is already assumed in the question
How you can make such sweeping assimilations betwix meritless lawsuits and ones with teeth is beyond comprehension, unless, you are just begging the question.
You made some definitive statements about this suit, do you care to back any of that up with logical examples, dutiful thought or educated hypothesis? Or, will your answer to this post be a single sentence hinged on semantics?
tieguy
Banned
Icon,
I backed my points up exhaustively throughout this never ending thread. I regret that you were not able to read and enjoy the overwhelming evidence I provided. I regret someone so two faced as yourself works for this company since I have often found myself following someone like you and cleaning up your mistakes. To be honest Icon i honestly believe based on your points that you are an idiot that should not be representing this company. I really wish you would turn your stalking obsession on someone else here. I do not want to be your buddy and I often puke when I read your ill thought out logic. I hope I was able to make my dislike for you a little clearer this time. Excuse me now while I go and wipe you off the bottom of my shoes.
tieguy
Banned
As to Dave a little material to educate yourself , read it and let me know what you think about California being called the "shakedown state"?
California's unfair competition law: a statute in dire need of reform<br>Business & Professions Code statute
California's unfair competition law: a statute in dire need of reform<br>Business & Professions Code statute
I
Infrequent Visitor
Guest
UPS managers followed suit two years later.
Overtime/Lunch Breaks Is Dismissed
NEW YORK, Aug. 23, 2005 -- (Bloomberg/Edvard Pettersson) – UPS Supervisors Class Action Lawsuit in California Is Dismissed: United Parcel Service Inc., the world's largest package shipper, had a class action lawsuit brought by supervisors in California dismissed because as managers they don't qualify for overtime pay. U.S. District Judge Dean Pregerson granted UPS's motion for summary judgment. The company had submitted substantial evidence the supervisors ``spend the majority of their time performing exempt managerial tasks,'' the judge said in a ruling filed yesterday in federal court in Los Angeles. The lawsuit, representing a class of about 1,200 current and former supervisors, accused UPS of violating California labor law by not providing overtime pay and meal breaks. UPS showed the supervisors fall under an exemption the law makes for executive and administrative employees because, among other things, they are required to use discretion and independent judgment in ``matters of consequence,'' according to the ruling. John Furutani, an attorney for the plaintiffs with Furutani and Peters in Pasadena, California, didn't immediately return a call to his office after business hours. ``This is a very significant ruling by the court,'' said Peggy Gardner,'' a spokeswoman for Atlanta-based UPS in a telephone interview. ``It underscores our position that our supervisors are an essential part of the management team.''
The case is Michael Marlo v. United Parcel Service, 03-4336, U.S. District Court for the Central District of California. UPDATE 10/31/2005
The California Supervisor's class action lawsuit, summarily dismissed by the District Court for Central California in August 2005 apparently on a jurisdictional technicality, is currently being appealed to the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. The District Court judge allegedly erred in deferring to federal labor regulations, instead of adhering to the California regulations under which the suit was originally filed. As this ruling would set new precedent in California case law, the lawsuit has received considerable attention and support from legal-rights advocates. The District Court's ruling is widely expected to be reversed on appeal.
Overtime/Lunch Breaks Is Dismissed
NEW YORK, Aug. 23, 2005 -- (Bloomberg/Edvard Pettersson) – UPS Supervisors Class Action Lawsuit in California Is Dismissed: United Parcel Service Inc., the world's largest package shipper, had a class action lawsuit brought by supervisors in California dismissed because as managers they don't qualify for overtime pay. U.S. District Judge Dean Pregerson granted UPS's motion for summary judgment. The company had submitted substantial evidence the supervisors ``spend the majority of their time performing exempt managerial tasks,'' the judge said in a ruling filed yesterday in federal court in Los Angeles. The lawsuit, representing a class of about 1,200 current and former supervisors, accused UPS of violating California labor law by not providing overtime pay and meal breaks. UPS showed the supervisors fall under an exemption the law makes for executive and administrative employees because, among other things, they are required to use discretion and independent judgment in ``matters of consequence,'' according to the ruling. John Furutani, an attorney for the plaintiffs with Furutani and Peters in Pasadena, California, didn't immediately return a call to his office after business hours. ``This is a very significant ruling by the court,'' said Peggy Gardner,'' a spokeswoman for Atlanta-based UPS in a telephone interview. ``It underscores our position that our supervisors are an essential part of the management team.''
The case is Michael Marlo v. United Parcel Service, 03-4336, U.S. District Court for the Central District of California. UPDATE 10/31/2005
The California Supervisor's class action lawsuit, summarily dismissed by the District Court for Central California in August 2005 apparently on a jurisdictional technicality, is currently being appealed to the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. The District Court judge allegedly erred in deferring to federal labor regulations, instead of adhering to the California regulations under which the suit was originally filed. As this ruling would set new precedent in California case law, the lawsuit has received considerable attention and support from legal-rights advocates. The District Court's ruling is widely expected to be reversed on appeal.
J
Just Snoopin
Guest
Yes they are.
tieguy
Banned
Dave,
Here's another one. NY times claims more people leaving california then moving there. Getting too expensive to live there.You'll need many more class action checks to help you pay for the privledge of living in California:
Saying Goodbye California Sun, Hello Midwest - New York Times
Here's another one. NY times claims more people leaving california then moving there. Getting too expensive to live there.You'll need many more class action checks to help you pay for the privledge of living in California:
Saying Goodbye California Sun, Hello Midwest - New York Times
tieguy
Banned
An excerpt from the above link. I'll highlight certain parts for those who have a hard time reading.
Section 17200 suits generally provide few safeguards for defendants. In fact, plaintiffs bringing the action do not even need to claim that they have been injured or otherwise affected by the business practice, and they can bring the action not only on behalf of themselves, but as a "representative" of the general public. They can achieve "representative" status without having to meet the procedural safeguards usually required for class actions, requirements that most of us would want and expect in having someone prosecute an action on our behalf and behalf of every other Californian. Even settling or paying a judgment in a 17200 case provides no guarantee that the issue is resolved, because other plaintiffs may file identical copycat lawsuits involving those exact same issues. This aspect of the statute is the legal equivalent of "Groundhog Day," where the same case keeps re-appearing day after day.
Section 17200 suits generally provide few safeguards for defendants. In fact, plaintiffs bringing the action do not even need to claim that they have been injured or otherwise affected by the business practice, and they can bring the action not only on behalf of themselves, but as a "representative" of the general public. They can achieve "representative" status without having to meet the procedural safeguards usually required for class actions, requirements that most of us would want and expect in having someone prosecute an action on our behalf and behalf of every other Californian. Even settling or paying a judgment in a 17200 case provides no guarantee that the issue is resolved, because other plaintiffs may file identical copycat lawsuits involving those exact same issues. This aspect of the statute is the legal equivalent of "Groundhog Day," where the same case keeps re-appearing day after day.
dave_socal
PACKAGE/FEEDER
No need to trouble yourself tieguy with baseless articles about my woeful state your outside looking in status needs no further elucidation. I have lived here for my entire life. I need no history from someone who reads and belives everything. I lived through the earthquakes, wildfires, riots, storms and political swings in the state, I vote in every election. So any account and opinion of yours on this state's state is strikingly offensive.This state is responsible for more pro-worker laws than most any other and as a stand alone economy California is the 10th biggest in the world, so with such a bad business cilmate how could that be? We here in CA live just fine thank you I enjoy my lower middle class status by living the american dream with all the average stuff everyone has plus the weather so your scare tactics only help keep morons out and away from here. Now let us refocus on the money,yes the money. The law that began this lawsuit is in place to protect over zealous companies from taking advantage of thier workers. UPS may not have done anything deliberately wrong but the law was violated none the less so when my check arrives I'm going to take up a collection on your behalf and mail you a round trip ticket to CA so you can see how hard it is to live in this sunshine. Now it might take awhile because my contribution to the pot is only 1$ but in the mean time work on that envy of yours and bundle up frosty.
tieguy
Banned
David I really think you should keep the money for yourself. My gas prices are much more affordable than yours. You know I often find in discussing the anti-business climate of california that californians like yourself start ranting about the state being one of the 10 largest. Its nice to know its so big but I'm not sure what that has to do with californias hatred for business.
San Diego is a lovely place to live. It is so rich in natural treasures and its down town area and zoo are impressive. yet San Diego county is the eight worst in losing citizens in the country. People are fleeing the area in droves because they can not afford to live there. I would imagine gas prices approaching 4 dollars a gallon would be part of the reason?
What happens when the people leave in Droves and businesses can not find the skilled workers they need? What has happened already many leave where its cheaper to operate and where they can find the skilled workers they need. Therefore your argument that CA is proworker is not justified.
Dave I mean no offense but I really think you need to pick up a newspaper and start learning a little bit about your state.
Iconoclast
Well-Known Member
Tieguy - Icon,
I backed my points up exhaustively throughout this never ending thread. I regret that you were not able to read and enjoy the overwhelming evidence I provided. I regret someone so two faced as yourself works for this company since I have often found myself following someone like you and cleaning up your mistakes. To be honest Icon i honestly believe based on your points that you are an idiot that should not be representing this company. I really wish you would turn your stalking obsession on someone else here. I do not want to be your buddy and I often puke when I read your ill thought out logic. I hope I was able to make my dislike for you a little clearer this time. Excuse me now while I go and wipe you off the bottom of my shoes.
Tie,
If I am going to post on a subject, I read every post without fail, including yours. You can't readily offer opinion, develop arguments or shred someone if you don't read what they have written. You do have a tendency to post often, so it is not hard to find an opportunity to match wits with you. If you have one prevalent platform with regards to what I post; it seems to be that you are upset that I constantly engage you in discussion. We have covered this before, if you don't want people to comment on what you write - If you don't want to be eviscerated on a message board, don't post.
Why do I engage you so often? - As my old man used to say, "when a man points at the moon, it is the imbecile that stares at his finger."
All these years later, I was never completely sure what he meant by that, but I know it had something to do with my inabilty to grasp the point he was making at the time... so I figured I better read more, understand more words, engage myself in discussion that is above my pale so I can broaden my horizons.
Over the years I even managed to graduate from High school and College, not bad for a big dumb jock. (I was an offensive lineman in College, undersized, but smart and tough) In time, I think I developed into someone who could hold their own in discussions on many subjects, but mind you Tie, the road was long and hard. So I think I can handle being called an idiot.
Rest assured I will continue to check the boards and offer insight and wisdom on your postings, sharpening my fangs on your "logic" has become a bit of a hobby for me. So I guess we are stuck with each other.
If it helps- You can private message me before you post and tell me what your thoughts are on a subject. I will respond to you privately, and you can change your post based on my feedback - you might be able to save a little face that way.
Let me know- I don't mind throwing you a bone now and then.
I backed my points up exhaustively throughout this never ending thread. I regret that you were not able to read and enjoy the overwhelming evidence I provided. I regret someone so two faced as yourself works for this company since I have often found myself following someone like you and cleaning up your mistakes. To be honest Icon i honestly believe based on your points that you are an idiot that should not be representing this company. I really wish you would turn your stalking obsession on someone else here. I do not want to be your buddy and I often puke when I read your ill thought out logic. I hope I was able to make my dislike for you a little clearer this time. Excuse me now while I go and wipe you off the bottom of my shoes.
Tie,
If I am going to post on a subject, I read every post without fail, including yours. You can't readily offer opinion, develop arguments or shred someone if you don't read what they have written. You do have a tendency to post often, so it is not hard to find an opportunity to match wits with you. If you have one prevalent platform with regards to what I post; it seems to be that you are upset that I constantly engage you in discussion. We have covered this before, if you don't want people to comment on what you write - If you don't want to be eviscerated on a message board, don't post.
Why do I engage you so often? - As my old man used to say, "when a man points at the moon, it is the imbecile that stares at his finger."
All these years later, I was never completely sure what he meant by that, but I know it had something to do with my inabilty to grasp the point he was making at the time... so I figured I better read more, understand more words, engage myself in discussion that is above my pale so I can broaden my horizons.
Over the years I even managed to graduate from High school and College, not bad for a big dumb jock. (I was an offensive lineman in College, undersized, but smart and tough) In time, I think I developed into someone who could hold their own in discussions on many subjects, but mind you Tie, the road was long and hard. So I think I can handle being called an idiot.
Rest assured I will continue to check the boards and offer insight and wisdom on your postings, sharpening my fangs on your "logic" has become a bit of a hobby for me. So I guess we are stuck with each other.
If it helps- You can private message me before you post and tell me what your thoughts are on a subject. I will respond to you privately, and you can change your post based on my feedback - you might be able to save a little face that way.
Let me know- I don't mind throwing you a bone now and then.
sealbasher
Well-Known Member
note to all drivers take your break between the 4th and 6th hour,and only good will come of this.
tieguy
Banned
dave_socal
PACKAGE/FEEDER
Dave I mean no offense but I really think you need to pick up a newspaper and start learning a little bit about your state.[/quote]
Everyday I read the newspaper and thank God I don't live in your state thats all I need to know yes you pale dreary folk have frost bite of the brain to belive that this state wants for anything like I said before make the trip before you envy kills you. THIS http://www.painetworks.com/photos/ik/ik2926.JPG OR THIS http://www.celebrateboston.com/images/disasters/blizzardof78eastboston.jpg
tieguy
Banned
Everyday I read the newspaper and thank God I don't live in your state thats all I need to know yes you pale dreary folk have frost bite of the brain to belive that this state wants for anything like I said before make the trip before you envy kills you. THIS http://www.painetworks.com/photos/ik/ik2926.JPG OR THIS http://www.celebrateboston.com/images/disasters/blizzardof78eastboston.jpg[/quote]
I'll grant you california is a great place to visit but as the stats show people can't afford to live there which is why more are leaving then are coming in. You've also lost a lot of businesses for the same reasons. This exercise in state sponser class action welfare is another of many anti-business reasons.
The-UK-Guy
Tea anyone ?
Heres one for you , I worked through my lunch and breaks when it would benefit me, eg. I know my route very well and know when I am going to make production bonus. so if I have a heavy day, lets say 110 stops by 2.00pm (when I break for pick ups and get the wally) I know that I will be breaking the route by 1 to 2 hours depending on how heavy the pick ups are so it makes no difference if I clock out or if its taken out of my paid day my pay for that day remains the same . If I clock out for the two 15 min breaks and the 30min lunch I will break standard by the 1 1/2 to 2 hours that i usualy would plus the subtracted breaks = 2 1/2 to 3 hours bonus did I make sense ? im not sure but look at it this way
12 hours work in 9.5 = 2 1/2 bonus no lunch
12 hours work in 9.5 subtract 1 hour for lunch = 3 1/2 bonus
makes sense to clock out even if I work through . and if I am forced to work through my lunch then when I return to the building at night I sit in the truck for 30 mins before clocking out . or used to I should say , however , the moneys already been paid by ups for the law suit , in essence its our money if you are like me and have stocks , so rather us have it than some skumbag lawyer look at it like a large dividend.
12 hours work in 9.5 = 2 1/2 bonus no lunch
12 hours work in 9.5 subtract 1 hour for lunch = 3 1/2 bonus
makes sense to clock out even if I work through . and if I am forced to work through my lunch then when I return to the building at night I sit in the truck for 30 mins before clocking out . or used to I should say , however , the moneys already been paid by ups for the law suit , in essence its our money if you are like me and have stocks , so rather us have it than some skumbag lawyer look at it like a large dividend.
The-UK-Guy
Tea anyone ?
Some times I think that managment forget that us drivers own a little bit of the company , remember when UPS pays off lawsuits they are spending all of our money WE are UPS ...... at least we are getting some of our own moneys back even though it cost us all a lot of change to do . This one isnt an us against them issue
Backlasher
Stronger, Faster, Browner
tieguy
Banned
You guys don't pay attention. This was never an us against them who gets the money debate.
Its about california's anti business climate and the fact they allow class action lawsuits where you don't have to prove you are a victim.
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