climate catastrophe

[rickyb]

I don't care about the "democratic party" per se. I tend to agree with Democratic voters though in terms of their outlooks on what's wrong with this nation and what needs to improve.

So to me the issue isn't the republican party. it is what republican voters desire that's the big problem. Imo, republican voter's desire to screw over the groups of Americans they hate and fear is in conflict and much greater than their expressed desire to help regular Americans and thus it causes them to support an utterly plutocratic party who doesn't want to do anything to help most Americans.

It is this fact of American political life that is crippling us, if the republican party had any interest in helping regular voters, there could be compromise on policy, but they don't give damn, and republican voters will still support them.

Republicans don't discuss policy any longer. Seriously listen to republican senators, the president, republicans in the house, its all conspiracy theory nonsense about covid, the media, hollywood, big tech, and the universities being against republicans. It is pathetic and dangerous.

we should look at polls too. left and right quite often want the same things. theres a difference between what democrats want and what hte democratic party wants.

 

[Box Ox]

making themselves better doing what exactly?

Are you not working on school right now?

 

[zubenelgenubi]

making themselves better doing what exactly?

I would never presume to tell someone the best way to improve themselves. If I knew you really well, I might offer some suggestions. Collectivists are the ones who treat everyone as though they are the same, and tell them how to live their lives with a one-size-fits-all attitude.

 

[refineryworker05]

That perspective can be applied just as easily to Democratic voters and representatives. You think it only applies to your perceived opponents because you see yourself as a good person, and that causes you to believe all the problems must be the fault of the people who aren't like you. I freely acknowledge that people are pretty messed up, no matter their political affiliation. For most people, the best way they can help make the world a better place is to work on making themselves better.

This is that bothsiderism, nonsense. Again the democrats I know discuss policies, They are like hey climate change is a huge issue here is what I think we should do about it, republicans are climate change is a huge conspiracy coming from the "left" and scientists to destroy the American way of life. Those two positions are not equivalent. Democrats, hey police violence against black Americans is a real issue that I'd like to see addressed in these ways, republicans, blm are Marxists anti Americans who want to destroy the nation. Again those two positions are not equivalent, Democrats I know COVID is an unknown virus that has the potential to kill hundreds of thousands of Americans, we should take steps to prevent this, Republicans we all gotta die, covid is a conspiracy cooked up by the Chinese and bill gates, etc. Again those two positions are not equivalent.

An example, I watched some of the hearings on big tech, Democratic politicians to big tech CEO's hey you may have too much power and here are the ways you stifle competition, here are the emails where you admit this anti-competitive behavior. Republican politicians to big tech CEO's, isn't it true you are against conservatives and stop our posts from trending on facebook and in google search. Again those two things aren't equivalent.

The idea that I am trying to adjudicate, whether people are "messed up" is a useless thing to me, if your political ideology is most people suck so screw trying to improve society...... that's useless and irrational.

 

[rickyb]

I would never presume to tell someone the best way to improve themselves. If I knew you really well, I might offer some suggestions. Collectivists are the ones who treat everyone as though they are the same, and tell them how to live their lives with a one-size-fits-all attitude.

so what are some ways? what should people be doing generally? i agree with you about changing the man in the mirror but you dont actually say what people should strive for.

i walk the dog and pump weights at the same time, used to paraglide, water raft, used to donate $110 usd a month to the revolution (i did that for years), this year i donated probably $200 at least to BLM, i got political shirts, bumper stickers, i leave google reviews, cut back on animal agriculture.

btw ayn rand is full of it. im not sure if thats where u got this idea.

 

[Box Ox]

i walk the dog and pump weights at the same time

 

[refineryworker05]

we should look at polls too. left and right quite often want the same things. theres a difference between what democrats want and what hte democratic party wants.

I agree in a sense, but I don't really see this as a "left or right" issue. Most Americans aren't very ideological. And I have not met an American who doesn't support in principal anyway, Unions, minimum wage, education, unemployment benefits, social security, medicare, etc.
The differences amongst Americans imo is always who deserves to get help and who doesn't.
republicans put a huge percentage of Americans in the underserving category and this fact dominates their political choices. They care about using the government to punish Americans they don't like more than using government to help all Americans. Again I truly wish this were not the case, but it is.

 

[rickyb]

This is that bothsiderism, nonsense. Again the democrats I know discuss policies, They are like hey climate change is a huge issue here is what I think we should do about it, republicans are climate change is a huge conspiracy coming from the "left" and scientists to destroy the American way of life. Those two positions are not equivalent. Democrats, hey police violence against black Americans is a real issue that I'd like to see addressed in these ways, republicans, blm are Marxists anti Americans who want to destroy the nation. Again those two positions are not equivalent, Democrats I know COVID is an unknown virus that has the potential to kill hundreds of thousands of Americans, we should take steps to prevent this, Republicans we all gotta die, covid is a conspiracy cooked up by the Chinese and bill gates, etc. Again those two positions are not equivalent.

An example, I watched some of the hearings on big tech, Democratic politicians to big tech CEO's hey you may have too much power and here are the ways you stifle competition, here are the emails where you admit this anti-competitive behavior. Republican politicians to big tech CEO's, isn't it true you are against conservatives and stop our posts from trending on facebook and in google search. Again those two things aren't equivalent.

The idea that I am trying to adjudicate, whether people are "messed up" is a useless thing to me, if your political ideology is most people suck so screw trying to improve society...... that's useless and irrational.

yea i agree with the last part. i was talking to @zubenelgenubi about this the other day and i think he said dont do anything until you have perfected yourself or something. he can correct me if im wrong. but it just sounds to me like some kind of ayn rand pseudo crap to demobilize oneself from doing anything good for the country and basically letting hte rich s destroy it unabated.

democrats have conspiracies now too like russia. not sure where they were on 9/11 guessing it wasnt too enlightened.

 

[rickyb]

I agree in a sense, but I don't really see this as a "left or right" issue. Most Americans aren't very ideological. And I have not met an American who doesn't support in principal anyway, Unions, minimum wage, education, unemployment benefits, social security, medicare, etc.
The differences amongst Americans imo is always who deserves to get help and who doesn't.
republicans put a huge percentage of Americans in the underserving category and this fact dominates their political choices. They care about using the government to punish Americans they don't like more than using government to help all Americans. Again I truly wish this were not the case, but it is.

years ago they figure hte bottom 70% of americans have no influence over policy because govt is so controlled by big money. policy influence is sharply concentrated with money. maybe what ur talking about is divide and conquer. they argue about what htey disagree about, and dont talk about what htey agree on. the country is also polarized i forget why.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

This is that bothsiderism, nonsense. Again the democrats I know discuss policies, They are like hey climate change is a huge issue here is what I think we should do about it, republicans are climate change is a huge conspiracy coming from the "left" and scientists to destroy the American way of life. Those two positions are not equivalent. Democrats, hey police violence against black Americans is a real issue that I'd like to see addressed in these ways, republicans, blm are Marxists anti Americans who want to destroy the nation. Again those two positions are not equivalent, Democrats I know COVID is an unknown virus that has the potential to kill hundreds of thousands of Americans, we should take steps to prevent this, Republicans we all gotta die, covid is a conspiracy cooked up by the Chinese and bill gates, etc. Again those two positions are not equivalent.

An example, I watched some of the hearings on big tech, Democratic politicians to big tech CEO's hey you may have too much power and here are the ways you stifle competition, here are the emails where you admit this anti-competitive behavior. Republican politicians to big tech CEO's, isn't it true you are against conservatives and stop our posts from trending on facebook and in google search. Again those two things aren't equivalent.

The idea that I am trying to adjudicate, whether people are "messed up" is a useless thing to me, if your political ideology is most people suck so screw trying to improve society...... that's useless and irrational.

Your "people-I-knowism" is nonsense. You also completely misunderstood my point. Societies are made up of people. People taking responsibility for improving themselves is the way to improve society. You can't take a top down approach, because you don't know what's best for me, or where I need to improve. It is a personal journey each person must undertake.

As for the tech companies, yet another misrepresentation of the principals involved. The democrats would never actually challenge the tech giants, because their censorship of conservative views helps democrats. Beyond that many tech companies have had memos leaked stating specifically their support of and intentions to help direct the outcome of elections in favor of democrats. Of course republicans should be concerned about the political activities of tech companies, since they actively suppress conservatives.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

yea i agree with the last part. i was talking to @zubenelgenubi about this the other day and i think he said dont do anything until you have perfected yourself or something. he can correct me if im wrong. but it just sounds to me like some kind of ayn rand pseudo crap to demobilize oneself from doing anything good for the country and basically letting hte rich s destroy it unabated.

democrats have conspiracies now too like russia. not sure where they were on 9/11 guessing it wasnt too enlightened.

That was your misunderstanding of what I said. Perfection is an unattainable ideal. It is about growing your competence so that the actions you take will be more likely to have a positive impact. If you can't keep your room clean how can you possibly hope to solve far more complex problems?

 

[refineryworker05]

yea i agree with the last part. i was talking to @zubenelgenubi about this the other day and i think he said dont do anything until you have perfected yourself or something. he can correct me if im wrong. but it just sounds to me like some kind of ayn rand pseudo crap to demobilize oneself from doing anything good for the country and basically letting hte rich s destroy it unabated.

democrats have conspiracies now too like russia. not sure where they were on 9/11 guessing it wasnt too enlightened.

What is the democratic conspiracy about Russia? Doing this bothsider thing isn't going to work. We have to deal with reality. republican voters support trump, this means there is something deeply damaged about republican political thought. And it is dangerous for this nation. This idea that we say oh republicans and democrats are both bad and we unite is fiction. Democratic politicians imo are bad in the ways they behave like plutocratic republican politicians. But the ways republicans are bad.... there just isn't an equivalent. republicans stole a supreme court justice seat, republicans are trying to rule by preventing people whom they think may vote for Democrats from voting, republicans in individual state houses have set up districts that shield them from the majority of voters in their state. Like Wisconsin, the republicans in that state have set it up so that 52% of voters can only elect 36% of the state representatives and 44% of voters can elect 63% of state reps, that's purely anti-democratic and there is no equivalent on the other side in any state that Democrats control.

Again listen to republican elected officials, talk about these weird conspiracies that facebook or twitter are out to get them. It is bizarre stuff.

 

[rickyb]

That was your misunderstanding of what I said. Perfection is an unattainable ideal. It is about growing your competence so that the actions you take will be more likely to have a positive impact. If you can't keep your room clean how can you possibly hope to solve far more complex problems?

because having a clean room and solving more complicated problems are 2 separate types of intelligence lol. some people are good at somethings and bad at others. my s pretty clean btw.

what do you mean growing your competence for positive impact?

 

[zubenelgenubi]

so what are some ways? what should people be doing generally? i agree with you about changing the man in the mirror but you dont actually say what people should strive for.

i walk the dog and pump weights at the same time, used to paraglide, water raft, used to donate $110 usd a month to the revolution (i did that for years), this year i donated probably $200 at least to BLM, i got political shirts, bumper stickers, i leave google reviews, cut back on animal agriculture.

btw ayn rand is full of it. im not sure if thats where u got this idea.

I am not an objectivist by any means. The fact that you keep invoking Ayn Rand suggests you don't understand what I am writing.

If you insist on me telling you what to do, you should probably stop donating money to activist groups bent on destruction. Instead donate to causes that actually help people. Then, maybe learn something about regenerative agriculture.

But those things don't do much to improve you, except make you feel better. You need to improve yourself. Stop blaming greedy capitalists for your inability to stand on your own two feet. Figure out a way to move out of your parent's basement and stay their. Overcoming personal challenges and obstacles is the best way to increase your competence. Keep it easy to start with. Keep the basement clean, then branch out to helping keep the rest of your parent's house clean, then move on from there.

 

[refineryworker05]

Your "people-I-knowism" is nonsense. You also completely misunderstood my point. Societies are made up of people. People taking responsibility for improving themselves is the way to improve society. You can't take a top down approach, because you don't know what's best for me, or where I need to improve. It is a personal journey each person must undertake.

As for the tech companies, yet another misrepresentation of the principals involved. The democrats would never actually challenge the tech giants, because their censorship of conservative views helps democrats. Beyond that many tech companies have had memos leaked stating specifically their support of and intentions to help direct the outcome of elections in favor of democrats. Of course republicans should be concerned about the political activities of tech companies, since they actively suppress conservatives.

This is all nonsense. I have no idea this thing you are discussing. What does "improve one's self mean to you" what does "improve society" mean to you? What is a top down approach to you? I am discussing normal democratic voters I know and the policies they support to address specific societal problems. It just seems you want to talk around that and say well unless those individual people are free of any problems, then they shouldn't focus on improving the problems in the world they see, that's an absurd ideology.

Your second paragraph supports an insane conservative conspiracy. Carry on

 

[rickyb]

What is the democratic conspiracy about Russia? Doing this bothsider thing isn't going to work. We have to deal with reality. republican voters support trump, this means there is something deeply damaged about republican political thought. And it is dangerous for this nation. This idea that we say oh republicans and democrats are both bad and we unite is fiction. Democratic politicians imo are bad in the ways they behave like plutocratic republican politicians. But the ways republicans are bad.... there just isn't an equivalent. republicans stole a supreme court justice seat, republicans are trying to rule by preventing people whom they think may vote for Democrats from voting, republicans in individual state houses have set up districts that shield them from the majority of voters in their state. Like Wisconsin, the republicans in that state have set it up so that 52% of voters can only elect 36% of the state representatives and 44% of voters can elect 63% of state reps, that's purely anti-democratic and there is no equivalent on the other side in any state that Democrats control.

Again listen to republican elected officials, talk about these weird conspiracies that facebook or twitter are out to get them. It is bizarre stuff.

yea its true the republicans are a minority party and can only get into power by voter suppression and stuff like that.

i was talking about how democrats went crazy about russia last few years instead of looking in the mirror about big money theyve been taking since at least bill clinton and how that gave us trump.

yea i dont hear of critiques of other conservative parties the way i do about republicans and global warming. they are in a league of their own i think on the world stage.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

because having a clean room and solving more complicated problems are 2 separate types of intelligence lol. some people are good at somethings and bad at others. my s pretty clean btw.

what do you mean growing your competence for positive impact?

Good, now clean the rest of the house. Grow your competence, means get better at actually doing things. Then you'll gain the understanding of what it take to actually accomplish something. Then you'll gain perspective on how to make other things better. Consuming Marxist propaganda to convince yourself that your shortcomings are everyone else's fault is a decadent, immature indulgance.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

This is all nonsense. I have no idea this thing you are discussing. What does "improve one's self mean to you" what does "improve society" mean to you? What is a top down approach to you? I am discussing normal democratic voters I know and the policies they support to address specific societal problems. It just seems you want to talk around that and say well unless those individual people are free of any problems, then they shouldn't focus on improving the problems in the world they see, that's an absurd ideology.

Your second paragraph supports an insane conservative conspiracy. Carry on

Since you can't grasp very simple, straight-forward concepts, I don't think I'm the problem here.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

Ok kiddos, school's out for the evening. Have a great night. Work on the grasping reality thing you think everyone else has a problem with, refinery guy.

 

[rickyb]

I am not an objectivist by any means. The fact that you keep invoking Ayn Rand suggests you don't understand what I am writing.

If you insist on me telling you what to do, you should probably stop donating money to activist groups bent on destruction. Instead donate to causes that actually help people. Then, maybe learn something about regenerative agriculture.

But those things don't do much to improve you, except make you feel better. You need to improve yourself. Stop blaming greedy capitalists for your inability to stand on your own two feet. Figure out a way to move out of your parent's basement and stay their. Overcoming personal challenges and obstacles is the best way to increase your competence. Keep it easy to start with. Keep the basement clean, then branch out to helping keep the rest of your parent's house clean, then move on from there.

yea thats why i keep asking you to explain lol. thanks for clarifying about ayn rand.

BLM is mostly peaceful. they are protesting racial destruction by the state and racists. they need to make the connection between capitalism and racism.

all of those things i listed make me feel better and some of them are good for the world. what do you do thats good for hte world? why would u insist i stop blaming greedy capitalists? they dont have blood on their hands? btw over 50% of america cant "stand on their own 2 feet"; whats going on?

so according to you when do you start donating or going to protests? after youve achieved what goal can you start doing something truly meaningful for your country?