Concern for the future

[Fnix]

Alot of employees have no clue on how to work here. They work during break and take work from others by doing so and then they complain how they dont get enough hours. They work off the clock before work and they all look at me like I'm lazy cause I dont do the same. I warn them and tell them it's against policies and I dont work for free. They could loose their jobs for doing that. They act like it doesnt matter. To them maybe, but what about other employees?

Union stewards walking past working supes like they are being bribed.

 

[UPS Lifer]

The good ole days weren't always good
And tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems

I think this really sums it up! Well said!!

All the doom and gloom in this thread just makes me sick. Nothing but complaining and management bashing.

When there are people struggling to make ends meet there are folks on this thread who are living well and get 7 weeks plus time off and make over $40 an hour overtime NOT COUNTING BENEFITS!

Stop your complaining and do something about it!!! Go out there and make a positive difference.

The biggest complainers and whiners are the ones that will do the least to go out and fix the problem!

I joined management in 1979 because I thought I could make a difference. I really, really feel I accomplished that goal.

Take some responsibility --> go out and make a difference. Like the 1st poster said...if the ship has sailed go to the bridge and and help steer it in the right direction. If you don't like that idea ... hold your nose and jump overboard!

 

[Fnix]

I think this really sums it up! Well said!!

All the doom and gloom in this thread just makes me sick. Nothing but complaining and management bashing.

When there are people struggling to make ends meet there are folks on this thread who are living well and get 7 weeks plus time off and make over $40 an hour overtime NOT COUNTING BENEFITS!

Stop your complaining and do something about it!!! Go out there and make a positive difference.

The biggest complainers and whiners are the ones that will do the least to go out and fix the problem!

I joined management in 1979 because I thought I could make a difference. I really, really feel I accomplished that goal.

Take some responsibility --> go out and make a difference. Like the 1st poster said...if the ship has sailed go to the bridge and and help steer it in the right direction. If you don't like that idea ... hold your nose and jump overboard!

How do you make a difference? No one can convince UPS to hold off it's numbers and focus on it's employees.

 

[Dutch Dawg]

This type of talk must be stopped at all costs. I decree these purverors and propagators of hate and discontent at UPS must be purged and expunged before this spreading virus impacts the bottom line of our spreadsheet. Oh... and free promo hats and T-shirts for those remaining, so we see only happy faces.

Now you know I don't really believe that...but don't you just wonder if someone who's bloodflow to their cranium is stiffled due to too tight a necktie, somewhere isn't thinking that's their answer.

 

[Dutch Dawg]

...I joined management in 1979 because I thought I could make a difference. I really, really feel I accomplished that goal....

So are you saying you deserve some of the credit for the curent state of affairs?

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

I think this really sums it up! Well said!!

All the doom and gloom in this thread just makes me sick. Nothing but complaining and management bashing.

When there are people struggling to make ends meet there are folks on this thread who are living well and get 7 weeks plus time off and make over $40 an hour overtime NOT COUNTING BENEFITS!

Stop your complaining and do something about it!!! Go out there and make a positive difference.

The biggest complainers and whiners are the ones that will do the least to go out and fix the problem!

I joined management in 1979 because I thought I could make a difference. I really, really feel I accomplished that goal.

Take some responsibility --> go out and make a difference. Like the 1st poster said...if the ship has sailed go to the bridge and and help steer it in the right direction. If you don't like that idea ... hold your nose and jump overboard!

There are far more jobs that don't pay 28.12 an hour (i.e. inside, inside/outside, part time)...and those jobs are underpaid and management routinely bends if not breaks these people doing jobs they didn't bid on and aren't supposed to be doing. Please, if you're going to make an arguement, don't generalize and certainly don't lie. (not saying you are, either!, but it occurs all too often...)

You know damn well 60 if not 80% of hourly UPSers don't make the 28$+ FD make....and yes I do agree those should be somewhat more gracious at times, too.

Yours truly,
occasionally disgruntled but honest and underpaid 22.3

 

[UPS Lifer]

So are you saying you deserve some of the credit for the curent state of affairs?

Now I didn't say that!! I only can take credit for the operations that I managed while I was there. Each person needs to do what they can to make their own operation more bearable.

 

[tonyexpress]

How do you make a difference? No one can convince UPS to hold off it's numbers and focus on it's employees.

How do you make a difference??

Flip the last line of your sentence around...

If you focus on the employees the numbers will usually come.

There are plenty of good managers out there too but you sure wouldn't know it by reading this thread. In fact the ratio of good to bad managers has to be pretty high otherwise UPS would be in a world of hurt.

If UPS doesn't make their numbers to make a profit and stay in business than what will happen to all the jobs???

 

[JustTired]

Stop your complaining and do something about it!!! Go out there and make a positive difference.

It's pretty hard to "make a difference" when you are insulated from those that make the decisions.

If you're suggesting I (or anyone) go into management to "make a difference", I don't think it works that way anymore. The management I am in contact with on a daily basis, while most likely capable of "making a difference", take there orders from above and seem to be generally in fear of losing their jobs should they even try to make a change not authorized from above. That's not for me.

In my opinion......if your goal is to try and please the stockholders (those whose only association with UPS is their money), you just end up chasing your tail. While you're going in circles, your customers are going elsewhere (not to mention some good employees). Those investors don't care about the company, the employees or anything other than their bottom line. They'll milk the cash cow until there's nothing left and then they'll move on.

A company has to be fiscally responsible. But the reason should be to ensure its' survival, not to ensure the suvival of its' investors. In the last 10 years I've seen a lot of good money thrown at bad ideas. Some of the ideas had merit, but the implementation was horendous.

Until control of an operation is relenquished back to the center manager level, things won't get any better, in my opinion.

 

[moreluck]

"A company has to be fiscally responsible. But the reason should be to ensure its' survival, not to ensure the suvival of its' investors."

JusTired.....they are the same thing !

 

[JustTired]

"A company has to be fiscally responsible. But the reason should be to ensure its' survival, not to ensure the suvival of its' investors."

JusTired.....they are the same thing !

I guess I didn't say what I meant. Sure, investment in the company is important. Before the stock went public, its' employees were its' investors. All had an interest in seeing the company moving forward and profitable. While those same people (for the most part) still are the majority holders of stock, there are now outside interests that hold stock. These outside interests have more to do with the stock price than those who have a vested interest. those on the outside not only want to make money on their investment.....they want to make it fast. If things aren't moving along fast enough for them, they dump it and move on.

In the days when the company was private, they weren't affected by the whims of wall street. Stock prices climbed like clockwork (with a few exceptions) over the years. And while during those times the company was making sure that they were growing the business and being fianacially responsible, their people were still being treated more fairly than they are today. Remember a time when managers were allowed to manage? I do. Now, as a publicly traded company, they are jumping thruogh hoops to satify the outside investor. They may have maintained the voting stock inhouse....but they've lost ability to control the stock price. Of course by satisfying the outside investor, they keep their stock viable.

I have yet to figure out what the advantage was to going public. As near as I can figure, there were those at the top that made out like a fat rat. Leaving those left behind to deal with the aftermath. Or maybe it was just an ego thing. They felt left out of the wall street crowd. Whatever the case, we've got what we've got. It's a lot harder to get that cat back into the bag than it was to let it out.

JMO

 

[tonyexpress]

It's pretty hard to "make a difference" when you are insulated from those that make the decisions.

If you really want to make a difference you have to start with yourself.

If you really want to make a difference you have to earn respect.

If you really want to make a difference you have to be persistent.

Thomas Edison would not have discovered electricity if he didn't try thousands of times to do so and UPS hasn't been around for over 100 years because they get their kicks out of NOT listening to their people.

In my opinion......if your goal is to try and please the stockholders (those whose only association with UPS is their money), you just end up chasing your tail. While you're going in circles, your customers are going elsewhere (not to mention some good employees). Those investors don't care about the company, the employees or anything other than their bottom line. They'll milk the cash cow until there's nothing left and then they'll move on.

Tell that to Warren Buffet! He's a long term investor and one of the greatest investors and business minds in the world. He bought a substantial stake in UPS last year or the year before. He did so believing that UPS was a well run company. If you're not servicing the customer, coming up with new technology, taking care of your employees and doing all the things you claim UPS is not doing then what's the point?

A company has to be fiscally responsible. But the reason should be to ensure its' survival, not to ensure the suvival of its' investors. In the last 10 years I've seen a lot of good money thrown at bad ideas. Some of the ideas had merit, but the implementation was horendous.

As Moreluck said this is the same thing and in fact it is because of the added incentive to please these investors and Wall Street that makes us better in certain ways. Keep in mind many of these investors are UPS employees.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained, hopefully we learn from our mistakes with the implementation problems we had with PAS.

Until control of an operation is relenquished back to the center manager level, things won't get any better, in my opinion.

I have to agree! If we promote people to run the business then that's what they should do. If they're not performing then management needs to step in but first we need to make sure they've had every opportunity to be successful otherwise let them run the business.

 

[satellitedriver]

If you really want to make a difference you have to start with yourself.

If you really want to make a difference you have to earn respect.

If you really want to make a difference you have to be persistent.

Thomas Edison would not have discovered electricity if he didn't try thousands of times to do so and UPS hasn't been around for over 100 years because they get their kicks out of NOT listening to their people.



Tell that to Warren Buffet! He's a long term investor and one of the greatest investors and business minds in the world. He bought a substantial stake in UPS last year or the year before. He did so believing that UPS was a well run company. If you're not servicing the customer, coming up with new technology, taking care of your employees and doing all the things you claim UPS is not doing then what's the point?



As Moreluck said this is the same thing and in fact it is because of the added incentive to please these investors and Wall Street that makes us better in certain ways. Keep in mind many of these investors are UPS employees.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained, hopefully we learn from our mistakes with the implementation problems we had with PAS.



I have to agree! If we promote people to run the business then that's what they should do. If they're not performing then management needs to step in but first we need to make sure they've had every opportunity to be successful otherwise let them run the business.

Tony,
You put it in a nutshell, with this part of your post.

If you really want to make a difference you have to start with yourself.

If you really want to make a difference you have to earn respect.

If you really want to make a difference you have to be persistent.:

These are life wisdoms that go farther than just UPS worker applications.

 

[Still care]

Sick & tired of some of you Teamster babies. I know....here's an idea.....if you dont like it quit! There are may other hard workers out there that I'm sure would jump at the opportunity to work in your place. Do you have a college education or a trade perfection?....maybe so....but if not--quit and see what's out there for income. Maybe then you will be a little more grateful for what you have!
I have seen the good & bad with UPS ( 21 year UPSer) It is still a great company to work for & I am still very proud to say I work for UPS. What ever happened to a work ethic or a hard days pay for a hard days work? I know...arrive at work-punch in -smile -- like what you do & take pride--arrive back--punch out--go home. Pretty simple concept to me!

 

[dilligaf]

Sick & tired of some of you Teamster babies. I know....here's an idea.....if you dont like it quit! There are may other hard workers out there that I'm sure would jump at the opportunity to work in your place. Do you have a college education or a trade perfection?....maybe so....but if not--quit and see what's out there for income. Maybe then you will be a little more grateful for what you have!
I have seen the good & bad with UPS ( 21 year UPSer) It is still a great company to work for & I am still very proud to say I work for UPS. What ever happened to a work ethic or a hard days pay for a hard days work? I know...arrive at work-punch in -smile -- like what you do & take pride--arrive back--punch out--go home. Pretty simple concept to me!

yeah, I bet you'd cross the strike line too wouldn't you. And it's a fair days work for a fair days pay

 

[tieguy]

yeah, I bet you'd cross the strike line too wouldn't you. And it's a fair days work for a fair days pay

I have to admit I couldn't follow your response on that one. The poster spoke of gratitude and taking pride in your work. How did you equate that to him crossing a picket line?

 

[trplnkl]

I think this really sums it up! Well said!!

All the doom and gloom in this thread just makes me sick. Nothing but complaining and management bashing.

When there are people struggling to make ends meet there are folks on this thread who are living well and get 7 weeks plus time off and make over $40 an hour overtime NOT COUNTING BENEFITS!

Stop your complaining and do something about it!!! Go out there and make a positive difference.

The biggest complainers and whiners are the ones that will do the least to go out and fix the problem!

I joined management in 1979 because I thought I could make a difference. I really, really feel I accomplished that goal.

Take some responsibility --> go out and make a difference. Like the 1st poster said...if the ship has sailed go to the bridge and and help steer it in the right direction. If you don't like that idea ... hold your nose and jump overboard!

Lifer, you usually have some pretty good posts that ring true to life. Your standard has slipped on this one a little, IMO.
Your assessment that people should "Go out there and make a positive difference." is filled with holes. The only difference a driver can make is to stretch the limits of their personal efforts to encourage UP$ to keep piling more and more on them. Just how is a driver, in your opinion, supposed to make a positive difference?
In my observations over the years I have seen many good, intelligent and hardworking people go into UP$ management with the attitude that they were going to make a positive difference, only to be hit with the reality. They could not, would not be allowed to make a difference. Their life became that of yes men/women that were only allowed to walk in goosestep with the powers that be and only make decisions that came from the ventriloquist's none moving lips. The only way a person can make a difference is to make changes. Changes in the way things are rationalized and instituted. Those of us that "set back and piss and moan" are doing the only thing we are allowed to do outside of delivering more packages in a shorter period of time. Even the supervisors that have been around for quite awhile are wondering what the hell is upper mgnmt is thinking. They see the company going to hell in a hand basket and are powerless to stop it. If they try to logically solve a long term problem they are ostracized by their boss, their boss's boss and even their boss's boss's boss. Sometimes even in earshot hourlies. So tell me where's the incentive is for this?
You said

When there are people struggling to make ends meet there are folks on this thread who are living well and get 7 weeks plus time off and make over $40 an hour overtime NOT COUNTING BENEFITS!

Of course you are correct in this statement. We do earn a very good wage, we can earn a lot of time off due to vacations (which are not giving to us by the grace of UP$, but through negotiation) and over 40 bucks an hour for over 8 hours a day sure makes for larger pay checks. The most important BENEFIT is the burial insurance because most of us will be needing it long before we should if we keep going it the direction and at the pace we are going now.
All in all your post is a very good post lifer, especially considering that you can go golfing, boating or to the Bahamas anytime you please, while the rest of us just want to live long enough to retire.

 

[trplnkl]

I have to admit I couldn't follow your response on that one. The poster spoke of gratitude and taking pride in your work. How did you equate that to him crossing a picket line?

Let me 'splain it to you Lucy.
The implication that Stillcare would cross the picket line is formed from the diatribe that pride in job and company should trump all else. UP$ management only wishes it were true.

It's pretty easy to suggest someone go out and do 10 hours of work in 8 hours when you are setting in a padded chair in a temperature controlled office and then call someone a cry baby for not wanting to keep doing that, and more, everyday. The gratitude for the wages we EARN should not go to UP$ but to the teamsters, without them we wouldn't be making any more $$ than DHL drivers. Even FedEx drivers make more than DHL because of the teamsters indirectly( Fred wants to keep 'em out).
I do take personal pride in what I do everyday. I work hard, safe, with integrity and provide a needed service to the people I delver to. The smiles on their faces, the kind words and thanks are very rewarding. Then the next day I get this, " You should have done it faster" crap. I really try to keep smiling and just say Thank you, but it's getting harder and harder to do.

 

[Cezanne]

It is not about a company or teamster issue, it is a overall feeling of lack of loyality and concern for it's employees and members from both parties. Face it most of us long term employees who are on the ground level are basically sensing a sense of hopelessness, the continued slow degrading of employee benefits (pension and health and welfare) and any monetary advancement. Everybody I know of is just trying to survive enough physically and mentally to reach the minium retirement requirement in whatever plan they are in and get the hades out of here.

Stupid talk about "teamster babies" and "greedy managers" just shows just how much people classification hatemongering goes around from both sides. It is a sickness that really needs to be addressed, anybody who has stepped into that cesspool knows just how much it effects our workplace.

The real issue with concern for the future is the greed and "me first" attitude that apparently is running amuck with our company and union. We have second and third class teamster members in our mists, those who are not welcome down at the union halls because they don't talk the talk and therefore considered inferior and do not deserve any of the piece of the pie. Not being "union free" and therefore a teamster I can only comment on observation about our company co-workers. I see ground level, hardworking sups and managers working 10 to 12 hours a day scared out of their wits of making a mistake that will cause belittlement from their superiors. Good people for the most part that are just following unforgiving orders. One problem that I have seen is from the upper management elitist attitude toward the lower classes, that two tier system of the "haves" and "have nots" and the gap is getting wider.

Off my soapbox now......love these new smile icons

 

[Brown Dog]

Until control of an operation is relenquished back to the center manager level, things won't get any better, in my opinion.[/quote]
I agree. Too many bean counters calling the shots from behind their desk with no "on route" experience. Looks good on paper, more money is being made, but service, customer appreciation, and appreciation of employees hard work "above and beyond" normal work procedures is rapidly declining. And yes, honest opinions that differ from mgmt are treated with disdain. No wonder so many employees just "suck it up", keep quiet, do what you have to do, and get the hell out of here as soon as possible. NO, I don't mean quit, just do what you have to do to get by, take care of your family, and continue working for a company that used to be much more honorable than the one it is today! I see problems today that were here last week, last month, last year. I have spoken up about them. I might as well have been talking to a brick wall. All the center mgmt team wants to do is get the pkgs in the trucks as soon as possible and get the trucks out of the bldg likewise. There is a callous disregard for pkgs, customers, and employees. THAT is the way it is where I work and I WILL deal with it the best way I can. But it's a shame it has to be that way