DHL Out on Dec 10th?

[rocket man]

D H L IS gonna be around for a long time. IT works this way dhl is split into 6 districts across the us right now now the are about 15 people that hold those contracts . dhl is going to 8 contractors (not 8 trucks}} (upstate nyer} . They] are gonna do international letters and light like they have always done . were gonna get the bulk and ground along with fed x.They are not gonna have as many vans but they will be out there .

 

[Bad Gas!]

You are not serious are you? But if you are I can explain it to you. In the mean time just keep picking up those packages!!

You must be blond...not that anything is wrong with that!

 

[brownIEman]

Absolutely i agree to a point on who should get the lead. I have one driver that has been working two customers for a year to switch all of their business over and when he did he was denied. Why? because someone in Wyoming turned in this lead for a customer in deer field. Even the customer has called and said that they switched because of my driver friend. He is thinking about filing the grievance, however he has never filed one and is a little hesitant and i believe that this is what ups is counting on.

That sucks for your friend. I wish there were an option in the system to take cases like that into account. But there is not. The system is based on who turns in the lead first. That is the way it works, and we have to deal with it, your friend is off base thinking about filing a grievance. (not sure what he would file under, what sales lead language is in the contract?)

Let me give you an analogy. Lets say I had two preloaders, both wanting to go driving. One of them is just a superstar, always on time and ready to go, always works safe and fast, totally organized and remembers addresses, has perfect spacial awareness. I know this guy would be just a fantastic driver. The other guy is just OK, but has 6 months more seniority. So, I go to you as the steward and say, "listen, my superstar here has really busted his but and shown he is deserving, so I am going to give him the shot at driving over the less motivated guy with more seniority, so don't start any grievance stuff". You and I both know you would tell me I was way off base, the rules don't work that way and I need to live with it. And you would be right.

Your friend should be proud of the win he helped bring about and satisfied in the knowledge it will help protect the jobs of himself and his brothers and sisters. He was however no more "burned" by the sales lead program than the superstar preloader in my example was burned by the contract in not getting a shot at driving.

My 6 year old could have been a sales rep at dhl and done a great job! Dhl's selling point was price and if you cant walk in and switch an account over by under cutting us by 50% than you have no busiess in sales. Dhl didnt hire rocket scientists to sell their product!

In times of tough economy as we are in you should take care of the people that have been here, inteads of laying off 5 and 10 year employees and have them split shifting to get their 8 hours and in many cases at lower wages. So in short years of dedicated service means dick to this company while your hiring off the street sales reps!

In times of a tough economy, unfortunately, you give work to the people who have been there for whom you actually HAVE work that can on some level generate or support the generation of revenue. If you abandon that principle because it hurts to see people struggling under lay offs, you risk the survival of the company and every one's jobs.

I am left to wonder if you are not making a mountain of a mole hill on the DHL sales guys thing. I have not heard of any being hired in my district, do you have any solid numbers on how many have been hired in Illinois?

 

[trplnkl]

That sucks for your friend. I wish there were an option in the system to take cases like that into account. But there is not.

Also unfortunate is the fact that without any options that would help in this case the company has pretty much assured that this driver will never even ask another person for a sales lead.

 

[BigBrownSanta]

Just imagine if ups were to pay a commission for each pickup piece. I betcha more sales leads would be turned in. But on the negative side, I could see ups not paying and screwing up that program also.

 

[brownIEman]

Also unfortunate is the fact that without any options that would help in this case the company has pretty much assured that this driver will never even ask another person for a sales lead.

And the superstar preloader in my example might just stop putting forth the effort he was in the past, take his name off the driving list, and look for employment elsewhere.

In both cases, they would be guilty of a miss-placed crappy attitude.

 

[brownIEman]

Just imagine if ups were to pay a commission for each pickup piece. I betcha more sales leads would be turned in. But on the negative side, I could see ups not paying and screwing up that program also.

That is sorta what the sales lead program is. Once the account is sold, you get rewards or comissions, based on the volume picked up. As to a pure commission per picked up piece, that is what FedEx Ground does, but they are currently involved in a massive class action lawsuit, so I am not sure that would be a good way to go. I am also positive the Union would have absolutely none of it.

Look, the sales lead program is not perfect, but there are rules in effect in it for a reason. Just like the contract demands opportunities by seniority only to avoid favoritism and crony-ism, and take out the chaotic effect of trying to figure out who is more deserving, the rules in the sales lead program likewise prevent capriciousness. Look, say I was a DM, and said to Red and his pal "Yep, I am going to override this rule and give the lead awards to you, as you said you have been working with this guy for two years and someone in the local office called and said it was due to your efforts that the company switched." Now, I have made Red and his buddy happy, and screwed the guy in Wyoming. Now, seems this company is regional at least, if not national. So first off, how do I know that the guy in Wyoming was not working hard for two years and did not have just as much to do with the company deciding to switch? How do I know that this local guy in Red's area is really the decider for the companies shipping decisions? It may be from his perspective, Red's buddy was the main reason they switched. What that could really mean though, is that Red's friend was the main factor in this one guy voting to switch, but he may not be the only, nor the major deciding vote.

The funny thing to me, is that back in the day drivers would bring in informal leads to their management who would funnel them to BD. This was done solely for the purpose of getting packages out of non-union competitors hands and getting that work into our company. So the company sets up a system to reward drivers for doing what they often used to do for the good of us all, and many start to whine and complain when they feel they did not get a big enough piece of the hand out.

 

[BigBrownSanta]

First, let me say, I don't expect ups to pay a commission on pickup pieces. But for the sake of this thread, I'll respond.

That is sorta what the sales lead program is. Once the account is sold, you get rewards or comissions, based on the volume picked up. As to a pure commission per picked up piece, that is what FedEx Ground does, but they are currently involved in a massive class action lawsuit, so I am not sure that would be a good way to go. I am also positive the Union would have absolutely none of it.

What Fedex Ground does and what I mentioned is not similiar in any way. Fedex Ground pays a flat rate per piece and that's it. That's their complete paycheck. What I mentioned would be more like a bonus on top of your hourly pay. The union doesn't recognize the bonus program we have now. A bonus program based on pickup pieces would motivate some drivers to try to be entrepreneurial and increase volume on their area, basically like having the ability to give themselves a payraise. Not to mention it would be alot more honest than the current bonus program.

Look, the sales lead program is not perfect, but there are rules in effect in it for a reason. Just like the contract demands opportunities by seniority only to avoid favoritism and crony-ism, and take out the chaotic effect of trying to figure out who is more deserving, the rules in the sales lead program likewise prevent capriciousness. Look, say I was a DM, and said to Red and his pal "Yep, I am going to override this rule and give the lead awards to you, as you said you have been working with this guy for two years and someone in the local office called and said it was due to your efforts that the company switched." Now, I have made Red and his buddy happy, and screwed the guy in Wyoming. Now, seems this company is regional at least, if not national. So first off, how do I know that the guy in Wyoming was not working hard for two years and did not have just as much to do with the company deciding to switch? How do I know that this local guy in Red's area is really the decider for the companies shipping decisions? It may be from his perspective, Red's buddy was the main reason they switched. What that could really mean though, is that Red's friend was the main factor in this one guy voting to switch, but he may not be the only, nor the major deciding vote.

This looks like an impediment to the sales lead program that maybe someone in an upper decision-making position may want to look at. Resolve this and maybe drivers will be more trusting of the process.

I can tell you from personal experience that the system is manipulatable (is that a word?) by the BD people. I had a BD person approach me at a pickup one day and during our discussion he asked me why I don't turn in sales leads. I basically told him that I didn't believe the system worked and that I wouldn't get the credit for the pickup. He told me to turn in a sales lead for a nation wide business he was working on and he would get me paid.

I thought about it for a week, but eventually turned in the sales lead. By then, the contract had already been signed. The first time, the lead was kicked back as already closed. The BD person went to bat and convinced someone to pay the sales lead by saying the company wouldn't have closed the contract if not for the high level of service I provided. His words, not mine. A couple of months later I get an American Express card with $300 on it.

In his effort to show me that the system worked, he showed me it was arbitrary.

The funny thing to me, is that back in the day drivers would bring in informal leads to their management who would funnel them to BD. This was done solely for the purpose of getting packages out of non-union competitors hands and getting that work into our company. So the company sets up a system to reward drivers for doing what they often used to do for the good of us all, and many start to whine and complain when they feel they did not get a big enough piece of the hand out.

I don't have a problem with getting a "big enough piece of the hand out" as you put it. It's the fact of do I trust that what you are telling me is the truth. Did someone in Wyoming really turn in a sales lead first or is that the excuse you are using to not pay for the sales lead I turned in?

For me, it all boils down to trust. I know if I don't participate, I don't have to worry about being lied to.

 

[cachsux]

The funny thing to me, is that back in the day drivers would bring in informal leads to their management who would funnel them to BD. This was done solely for the purpose of getting packages out of non-union competitors hands and getting that work into our company. So the company sets up a system to reward drivers for doing what they often used to do for the good of us all, and many start to whine and complain when they feel they did not get a big enough piece of the hand out.

Back in the day I had a customer who started out small out of his basement,moved up to a small office at the time I had him on my route. He came to me and pointed out that the folks at UPS wouldn`t give him the software to automate his shipping. He was told he was to small. Now at the time UPS was setting up accounts with computers,software,training,etc,the works. This guy,being in the computer and software business,was only asking for the software as he had everything else he needed. He even offered to pay for it. I complained to my mgr,he complained to UPS all the way up to Atlanta,but we were told that BD said he was to small. When I told him I was leaving to go to feeder he said then he then had no reason to stay with UPS out of loyalty to me. Fast forward 14 years,he now has a large distribution ctr in an industrial park and has trailer fulls of packages all going by FedEx. When UPS comes sniffing around from time to time he shows them the letters from UPS saying they couldn`t service him because he was to small. He has 8 figure business income,7 figure personal income. I know this because my wife handles his finances for his family. UPS lost this because someone in BD didn`t have the common sense to look past their nose and see this guys potential. He was the last company I ever turned any leads/development info on. If you want maybe I can put in a good word for you when we go to his Xmas party.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

...A bonus program based on pickup pieces would motivate some drivers to try to be entrepreneurial and increase volume on their area, basically like having the ability to give themselves a payraise.

In theory this sounds like a good idea and a motivational tool but it's fairness may be in question. Pickup volume and the number of pickup stops vary from area to area. We have one route in our center that has 60+ pickup stops while we have one that has 3. There are some pickup accounts that are serviced by two or more package car drivers or perhaps a pkg car and a feeder driver. There are some seasonal accounts that the center team will move from driver to driver to balance the dispatch. There are a number of variables which could make implementation of a bonus program difficult at best.

 

[Big Babooba]

Back in the day I had a customer who started out small out of his basement,moved up to a small office at the time I had him on my route. He came to me and pointed out that the folks at UPS wouldn`t give him the software to automate his shipping. He was told he was to small. Now at the time UPS was setting up accounts with computers,software,training,etc,the works. This guy,being in the computer and software business,was only asking for the software as he had everything else he needed. He even offered to pay for it. I complained to my mgr,he complained to UPS all the way up to Atlanta,but we were told that BD said he was to small. When I told him I was leaving to go to feeder he said then he then had no reason to stay with UPS out of loyalty to me. Fast forward 14 years,he now has a large distribution ctr in an industrial park and has trailer fulls of packages all going by FedEx. When UPS comes sniffing around from time to time he shows them the letters from UPS saying they couldn`t service him because he was to small. He has 8 figure business income,7 figure personal income. I know this because my wife handles his finances for his family. UPS lost this because someone in BD didn`t have the common sense to look past their nose and see this guys potential. He was the last company I ever turned any leads/development info on. If you want maybe I can put in a good word for you when we go to his Xmas party.

That's their problem. they're too busy looking for the lunkers that they disregard the small fish. The last sales lead I put in was over two years ago. The guy sought me out because he wanted a UPS account. He was a sales rep for some west coast company. He said he was going to start small but within a year he would be shipping around 100 packages a week. The phone center called him once and didn't get an answer, so they closed the lead. Guess who gets his business now? Not us.

We had an account exec in the old days that was awesome. He could sell sand to an Arab. He would take the shippers out to eat, bring them coffee mugs etc. He treated each shipper like they were the only one he had. He sold our service like there was no tomorrow. We were sending trailers into some of my pickups because of his efforts. UPS started messing with him so he went to a competitor, and so did our shippers.

 

[BigBrownSanta]

In theory this sounds like a good idea and a motivational tool but it's fairness may be in question. Pickup volume and the number of pickup stops vary from area to area. We have one route in our center that has 60+ pickup stops while we have one that has 3. There are some pickup accounts that are serviced by two or more package car drivers or perhaps a pkg car and a feeder driver. There are some seasonal accounts that the center team will move from driver to driver to balance the dispatch. There are a number of variables which could make implementation of a bonus program difficult at best.

Fairness would be built on seniority based on the 2 year bids. Fairness isn't the issue. Increasing volume is. The 3 pickup driver will be looking for more pickup accounts on area, and the 60 pickup driver will be making sure to keep the 60 pickups he/she has happy.

Like i said earlier, it will never happen.

 

[Mike Hawk]

Back in the day I had a customer who started out small out of his basement,moved up to a small office at the time I had him on my route. He came to me and pointed out that the folks at UPS wouldn`t give him the software to automate his shipping. He was told he was to small. Now at the time UPS was setting up accounts with computers,software,training,etc,the works. This guy,being in the computer and software business,was only asking for the software as he had everything else he needed. He even offered to pay for it. I complained to my mgr,he complained to UPS all the way up to Atlanta,but we were told that BD said he was to small. When I told him I was leaving to go to feeder he said then he then had no reason to stay with UPS out of loyalty to me. Fast forward 14 years,he now has a large distribution ctr in an industrial park and has trailer fulls of packages all going by FedEx. When UPS comes sniffing around from time to time he shows them the letters from UPS saying they couldn`t service him because he was to small. He has 8 figure business income,7 figure personal income. I know this because my wife handles his finances for his family. UPS lost this because someone in BD didn`t have the common sense to look past their nose and see this guys potential. He was the last company I ever turned any leads/development info on. If you want maybe I can put in a good word for you when we go to his Xmas party.

I head a sup talking about why we don't have Microsoft as a shipper, when Bill Gates was working out of a garage UPS wouldn't give him a set pickup time because he was too small, more money for FedEx.

 

[705red]

That sucks for your friend. I wish there were an option in the system to take cases like that into account. But there is not. The system is based on who turns in the lead first. That is the way it works, and we have to deal with it, your friend is off base thinking about filing a grievance. (not sure what he would file under, what sales lead language is in the contract?)

There is language in the contract covering volume develpoment under article 55 sect 9. Im hoping we dont have to go that route and im talking with management now to resolve it.

Let me give you an analogy. Lets say I had two preloaders, both wanting to go driving. One of them is just a superstar, always on time and ready to go, always works safe and fast, totally organized and remembers addresses, has perfect spacial awareness. I know this guy would be just a fantastic driver. The other guy is just OK, but has 6 months more seniority. So, I go to you as the steward and say, "listen, my superstar here has really busted his but and shown he is deserving, so I am going to give him the shot at driving over the less motivated guy with more seniority, so don't start any grievance stuff". You and I both know you would tell me I was way off base, the rules don't work that way and I need to live with it. And you would be right.

Just because someone is a superstar loader does not mean he would be a better driver, those that run and hustle are usually the first to burn out, while the guy that works at a nice pace doesnt. The contract that we work under spells out seniority and at ups all you have is seniority.

Your friend should be proud of the win he helped bring about and satisfied in the knowledge it will help protect the jobs of himself and his brothers and sisters. He was however no more "burned" by the sales lead program than the superstar preloader in my example was burned by the contract in not getting a shot at driving.

This is exactly how ups turns good drivers into great union drivers. Comparing employee seniority to a driver dedicating himself to bend over backwards to gain business that someone else 2,000 miles away submitted when they do not deal with this customer. Sounds a little fishy seeing i am not allowed to have the name of the employee to find out how they discovered this company so far away.




In times of a tough economy, unfortunately, you give work to the people who have been there for whom you actually HAVE work that can on some level generate or support the generation of revenue. If you abandon that principle because it hurts to see people struggling under lay offs, you risk the survival of the company and every one's jobs.

I am left to wonder if you are not making a mountain of a mole hill on the DHL sales guys thing. I have not heard of any being hired in my district, do you have any solid numbers on how many have been hired in Illinois?

Im not sure of the total of dhl sales force that was hired but 1 was introduced to us in our pcm this past week. Hiring 1 outsider whan we have anyone on layoff is just not how you treat the dedicated employees of this company. We take pride from promotion from within and in these times its a smack in the face!

 

[Mike Hawk]

Red, he probably found a FedEx box and put the lead in based on the return address, one of our drivers did that and hit a $1000 jackpot.

 

[broncobros1]

This is hysterical...I called Red out on name calling and now all my posts have been depleted. Sounds like the democratic Teamster machine rolling...what a joke!

 

[brownIEman]

Im not sure of the total of dhl sales force that was hired but 1 was introduced to us in our pcm this past week. Hiring 1 outsider whan we have anyone on layoff is just not how you treat the dedicated employees of this company. We take pride from promotion from within and in these times its a smack in the face!

And how many drivers in your center put in a letter for a BD job? Did you? If there are zero, are you suggesting we hire no one to bring in more volume until all hourlies are back from lay off?

 

[brownIEman]

Just because someone is a superstar loader does not mean he would be a better driver, those that run and hustle are usually the first to burn out, while the guy that works at a nice pace doesnt. The contract that we work under spells out seniority and at ups all you have is seniority.

It is totally irrelevant who might or might not make a good driver or who might or might not burn out. You are correct, seniority is all that there is. So, which sales lead has the most seniority? Why is your friend trying to argue that his efforts should over ride the rules? No amount of effort overrides seniority does it?

This is exactly how ups turns good drivers into great union drivers. Comparing employee seniority to a driver dedicating himself to bend over backwards to gain business that someone else 2,000 miles away submitted when they do not deal with this customer. Sounds a little fishy seeing i am not allowed to have the name of the employee to find out how they discovered this company so far away.

I am simply pointing out the rules. In issues of seniority, you agree the rules MUST be followed. Now that you have a friend who you and he believe should get the reward for his efforts, you think it is all a big conspiracy and THOSE rules should be scrapped.

You have no idea how much or little contact this person in another state has with this customer. Distance is not that big of a factor in the age of telephones, and picking up and delivering is not the only way to get leads.

 

[705red]

It is totally irrelevant who might or might not make a good driver or who might or might not burn out. You are correct, seniority is all that there is. So, which sales lead has the most seniority? Why is your friend trying to argue that his efforts should over ride the rules? No amount of effort overrides seniority does it?



I am simply pointing out the rules. In issues of seniority, you agree the rules MUST be followed. Now that you have a friend who you and he believe should get the reward for his efforts, you think it is all a big conspiracy and THOSE rules should be scrapped.

You have no idea how much or little contact this person in another state has with this customer. Distance is not that big of a factor in the age of telephones, and picking up and delivering is not the only way to get leads.

What rules are you pointing out? We all understand seniority! Its spelled out in black and white in the good book, while sales leads are not and have not been bargained through the union.

So in this case it would make a great case to present to the company and maybe negotiate some rules, but until than there are no rules on who should get paid for it.

Whats right is right, and up on to your last post you had very good points and i really enjoyed the discussion, but now my friend you are just grasping. IMO

 

[zeus2ez]

I wondered with the quest to aquire DHL business that UPS is trying
to recruit, what FedEx is doing to compete for those customers. FedEx.com is offering
discounts to those customers. Why in the world hasn't UPS implemented this tactic?
The less expensive service is why those former DHL customers used DHL in the first
place.