Did Terrorists Win The War???

Overpaid Union Thug

Well-Known Member
I consider myself a Christian and normally don't agree with violence unless it is absolutely necessary. When it comes to Islam I believe it is DEFINATELY necessary for everyone to stand up against them. We need another world wide "Crusade" against Islam. I don't mean just Christians but everyone. Not everyone as in only people of faiths other than Islam but EVERYONE. Islam doesnt care whether or not you are Christian, Scientologist, or a faithliss Communist. To Islam they all deserve to have their heads cut off. I mean this all makes since. After all, the religion was started by a crazy, rapist, power hungry, sexist, homicidal maniac. One day the rest of the world is going to have to stand up to them (AGAIN) and maybe whipe them out. I may sound a bit harsh about this but it's either us or them. I don't want my grandchildren living under Islam.
 

hoser

Industrial Slob
I consider myself a Christian and normally don't agree with violence unless it is absolutely necessary. When it comes to Islam I believe it is DEFINATELY necessary for everyone to stand up against them. We need another world wide "Crusade" against Islam. I don't mean just Christians but everyone. Not everyone as in only people of faiths other than Islam but EVERYONE. Islam doesnt care whether or not you are Christian, Scientologist, or a faithliss Communist. To Islam they all deserve to have their heads cut off. I mean this all makes since. After all, the religion was started by a crazy, rapist, power hungry, sexist, homicidal maniac. One day the rest of the world is going to have to stand up to them (AGAIN) and maybe whipe them out. I may sound a bit harsh about this but it's either us or them. I don't want my grandchildren living under Islam.
Did you miss the part where I told you not to hold strong opinions about things you don't understand? I guarantee you never even held the Quran, let alone did research about it online.

Or maybe you're posting this as some kind of Colbertist joke. I really hope it's that.
 

Overpaid Union Thug

Well-Known Member
Did you miss the part where I told you not to hold strong opinions about things you don't understand? I guarantee you never even held the Quran, let alone did research about it online.

Or maybe you're posting this as some kind of Colbertist joke. I really hope it's that.


First of all....when someone starts correcting spelling (which is pointless if you still know what they are trying to say) that indicates they have less to say about the actual discussion at hand so they have to resort to childish nonsence such as becomming the forum spell checker.

Secondly...I've read the Quran, searched online, read books, etc. and most importantly....I can see with my own two eyes that MUSLIMS are responsible for 95% (if not more) of the world's terrorism so I'd say I have just as much right to say anything and everything I can about it. I have buddies stationed in the middle east. Believe me I know what is going on there. Get a clue. If you don't you'll be praying 5 times a day instead of checking for spelling errors on UPS forums. The people you seem to be taking up for would cut your head off with a rusty 3 inch knife just as fast as they would anyone else.

I'll put up with IPODs causing a fuss at the airports rather than allowing liberal minded fools letting Arabs just waltz onto planes without being screened just because it would be "PC." If it makes a few Saudis uncomfortable than so be it.
 

DS

Fenderbender
Hey hoser~were the 4 Canadian soldiers killed by a suicide bomber yesterday while handing out candy,not killed by followers of Islam?
Were the guys that flew the planes into the towers not as well?
Is it not barbaric to videotape beheadings,lop off hands and genitally mutilate young women ? I could go on...your little book
may have some truth in it,but any religion that promotes violence
is a false one.
btw~ you dont deserve the name hoser
 

hoser

Industrial Slob
Hey hoser~were the 4 Canadian soldiers killed by a suicide bomber yesterday while handing out candy,not killed by followers of Islam?
Were the guys that flew the planes into the towers not as well?
Is it not barbaric to videotape beheadings,lop off hands and genitally mutilate young women ? I could go on...your little book
may have some truth in it,but any religion that promotes violence
is a false one.
btw~ you dont deserve the name hoser
4 soldiers killed by Islamist? Ha, what about the two Canadians killed by US aircraft (for the second time) last week?
If you want to refernece the Quran as ambigiously, then you could find links that the Bible promotes violence, too. If you believe the Quran promotes violence, I suggest you crack open a text book.

Your logic goes as follows: a black man killed 4 police officers while handing out candy to kids the other night. Hence, because I've seen it with my own two eyes, black people promote violence.

You guys are so xenophobic, I don't even know why I try to rationalize with you.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
Religious terrorism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Although this only barely touches the subject at large, it does show terror and abuse is not limited to a single religious group. Islam and specifically Wahhabism influence have taken things to a new level but is that the religious beliefs themselves or just the fact that we now have planes and bombs used as weapons but they have not always been around for such purposes.

In the late 70's and through the 1980's, in this country a major concern was radical Christianity in the form of what was known as Christian Identity. You had groups like "The Order" which was an outcropping from Aryan Nations to "The Covenant, Sword and Arm of the Lord", a group based in Northern Arkansas that had engaged in some acts of a criminal nature. No, they never used an airplane or straped on body bombs but had they survived and had grown in size and scope, what would they have done?

Also, one can't help but look back at Christianity in Northern and Western Europe and see centuries of abuse especially when that religion becomes an important figure to the power of the State. It was these abuses and yes one might easily IMO call this terror that led a small band of folks to place their lives in peril to come to a place called Plymouth Rock to get away from such things. It was also these Church/State alliances and their abuses that led to the "Congress Shall Make No Law Respecting the Establishment of Religion" to become an important fixture of American principles.

Radical Islam has taken things to a new level, no argument from me on that but we aren't exactly the one's with clean hands either, those of us of western European Christian decent. As for Christianity being the religion of Anglo-Saxons, well in today's world that would be a fairly true statement but not in the longterm reality. Christianity or more likely a variant of Mithraism which was the religion of the Roman Legions and whenever this conquering force siezed control of an area, they mandated their religion become the religion on the people. The religion and cultures of the pre-Roman European people are very little known because of the Roman mandate to erradicate all former practices and conform to the new "Roman" way followed in later years by monarchs who were in league with the Roman Ecclessiastical system. Non-compliance meant destruction at the hands of the conquering forces or the ruling force in later years.

If you dare, here's more on Mithratic influences on Christianity:

Part 1
Mithraism and Christianity I

Part 2
Mithraism and Christianity II

Part 3
Mithraism and Christianity III

This is not to imply that I believe Jesus never existed or that his teaching are bad. Personally, I consider them as it relates to me as of the highest need and of greatest blessing. However, I do believe his teaching were likely highjacked and then in 325 AD at the Council of Nicaea this was solidified and we had the first official combination of Religion and State as it relates to Jesus' teachings and the first to centralize the ultimate authority over this new belief system. It was also this act of centralizing power and control that led to the Bishop of Rome achieving the status of Pope. Although the Bishop of Rome had a status of Primacy at the time, this council and others to follow led to this position of Vicar of Peter and later changed to Vicar of Christ to become what it was and what it is today. I don't see this as an act of God but rather as a result of the action of men. That's how I see it anyway.
 

Overpaid Union Thug

Well-Known Member
The more comparisons people try and make between Islam and other religions the more they prove that Islam responsible for more terrorism, or even just violence in general.


"4 soldiers killed by Islamist? Ha, what about the two Canadians killed by US aircraft (for the second time) last week?
If you want to refernece the Quran as ambigiously, then you could find links that the Bible promotes violence, too. If you believe the Quran promotes violence, I suggest you crack open a text book.

Your logic goes as follows: a black man killed 4 police officers while handing out candy to kids the other night. Hence, because I've seen it with my own two eyes, black people promote violence.

You guys are so xenophobic, I don't even know why I try to rationalize with you."


I don't care how many theoritical comparisons you bring to the table (liberal minds tend operate on theory) because they just help prove my point. Comparing a black man killing a police officer to Islam being responsible for terrorism is like comparing apples to oranges. If that. The huge difference, and problem, with your comparisons is the frequency of the events. Islam is killing people every day in the name of Islam. They openly admit they are doing this and why. Why do you think they cray "Allah Akbar" before they pull the trigger. Or ignite the bomb. Your hypothetical nonsense is something that happens randomly and usually for no cause. If your imaginary black man kills a cop he is nothing more than a murderer or cop killer. Now if black men were offing cops in record numbers every day then I would be justified and saying they promote violence. And you know what...that is exactly why I can say Islam is what it is. Because of the frequency of the events. A pattern. No one is saying Christianity is perfect. But compared to Islam I feel pretty good about it.

You guys are so xenophobic, I don't even know why I try to rationalize with you

Funny. I haven't seen a shred of rationality from your end yet. And what is your obsession with taking up for these savages anyway. Are you Muslim or something?
 

quebec_driver

Well-Known Member
I went over seas a long time ago and I never had any problems with the muslims in the countries I visited... Lately I find that the more virulent members of Islam are the ones we hear from, the "normal" not the extremists arre not being heard from. There was a report last year on the CBC, stating that converts to the muslim religion tended to be the most extremist and wanted to convert everybody to Islam... There is a fatuah (death warrant) against the Pope... what will be next?
 

Overpaid Union Thug

Well-Known Member
I went over seas a long time ago and I never had any problems with the muslims in the countries I visited... Lately I find that the more virulent members of Islam are the ones we hear from, the "normal" not the extremists arre not being heard from. There was a report last year on the CBC, stating that converts to the muslim religion tended to be the most extremist and wanted to convert everybody to Islam... There is a fatuah (death warrant) against the Pope... what will be next?

What scares me is the intel that came from interrogated terrorists the past couple of years stating that there are already up to 40 nuclear bombs that have been smuggled into the country. These freaks want to kill millions in the name of their false god and meanwhile we have people over here that would rather arrest president bush for wanting the NSA, CIA, etc.. to listen to their phone conversations than keep this country safe. We can't screen potential terrorists without liberal boneheads and the ACLU threatening to sue. Man I'm telling you....this country is collapsing from within. We are making it easy for the terrorists. Why should they blow up the White House when they can just be a little more patient and wait for us to just hand them over the keys. And our Canadian brothers to the north....don't think they'll stop here. They'll spread up into your neck of the woods soon enough.
 

quebec_driver

Well-Known Member
. These freaks want to kill millions in the name of their false god and meanwhile we have people over here that would rather arrest president bush for wanting the NSA, CIA, etc.. to listen to their phone conversations than keep this country safe. We can't screen potential terrorists without liberal boneheads and the ACLU threatening to sue..

Their God is your God, Islam is an offshoot of Christianity...
Just for argument sake: those people protecting their right are also protecting yours, take away liberties and we might as well be communists. They know the rules and they use them in their favor. the goverment both in Canada and the USA would have a hard time cutting back on our liberties...

Back to my original thread, I believe the terrorist did win the war by changing the way we live and think...
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
Back to my original thread, I believe the terrorist did win the war by changing the way we live and think...

It all depends on how you look at things, how you define "war", and how you define winning and losing. Al-Qaeda's primary goal has always been the removal of US troops from middle eastern countries, Saudi Arabia in particular (I'm always suprised at how few people are aware of this), and since there are now more US troops there than ever I think you would have a hard time making the case that they have won, or are even in the process of winning.

If you asked Osama what he was trying to accomplish, I very much doubt he would say "I want the Canadians to be more worried". I suspect he's not too ecstatic about being stuck in a cave all this time either.

Terrorism didn't start on 9/11 and it won't end if and when we kill or capture Bin-Laden. "Winning" this war won't be defined by an endpoint, it will be a continuous process whereby we keep the threat at a manageable level.
 

Overpaid Union Thug

Well-Known Member
Islam's "god" is NOT the same god Christians pray to. Let me make that perfectly clear. Islam is hardly an offshot of Christianity. If at all.

I'll gladly give up a few civil liberties if it helps stop terrorism. It's a good sacrifice. So what if the govt. is listening to telephone calls. So what if they get suspicious when an Arab comes throuh the airport. I have been one of the people in the airport that was selected randomly for extra screening. It held me up and extra minute or two. I wasn't offended at all. It's worth it. I had a military hair cut and a luggage bag that had the name of the branch of service I was in at the time as well as my military I.D. and they still continued with the additional screening. I mean you can't be sure.

The war on terror isnt being lost. It will never be won though. As long as we keep holding back and appeasing the rest of the world and the liberals in our own country we won't win. We need to stop worrying about shooting a paint chip of a mosque. The terrorist are hiding in their anyway. Just blow them up for Christ's sake! We need to stop worrying about getting sued by "human rights groups" everytime we interrogate prisoners. If you are going to fight a war....FIGHT A WAR. You can't win a war if you are going to try and be PC about it. How is our miliary, or anyone elses, supposed to whipe them out if they can't even make a move because our govt. is so worried about setting off riots among other Arabs. Letting the govt. bend the rules a bit on civil liberties to help fight terrorism, is worth it and does not make us communists. It makes us safe. It's not like they are just kidnapping Arab Americans, or Canadians, and trying to pinch info out of them.
 

Slothrop

Well-Known Member
BigArrowUp said:
It's not like they are just kidnapping Arab Americans, or Canadians, and trying to pinch info out of them.

Err, actually 'they' have done just that.

Other than that, I agree with your statement that if we are going to fight a war, we should do just that. Institute a draft, have a war tax, ration our energy consumption, and put all of our resources into actually winning the GWOT.

I think we can accomplish this without deconstructing our constitution, or throwing away the Geneva Conventions. We were able to defeat the Axis and the Soviet Union while keeping our rights and liberties intact, we should be able to defeat a few thousand ideologues as well. Legalizing torture is not the way to do this.

You can give up your liberties, if you wish; but don't volunteer to give mine up as well.
 

Overpaid Union Thug

Well-Known Member
Err, actually 'they' have done just that.

The U.S. govt. has not kidnapped anyone. If they have probable cause then they'll arrest them and let them go if nothing can be proved. They don't just yank people off the street or from in their homes for no reason.

Other than that, I agree with your statement that if we are going to fight a war, we should do just that. Institute a draft, have a war tax, ration our energy consumption, and put all of our resources into actually winning the GWOT.

Agreed. Putting all the resources into it is the only way to go.

I think we can accomplish this without deconstructing our constitution, or throwing away the Geneva Conventions. We were able to defeat the Axis and the Soviet Union while keeping our rights and liberties intact, we should be able to defeat a few thousand ideologues as well. Legalizing torture is not the way to do this.

You can give up your liberties, if you wish; but don't volunteer to give mine up as well.

We beat the Axis Powers because it was mainly, if not completely, a conventional war. The citizens of the Allies were behind the war, (for the most part, there is always someone who just doesn't get it),and did not sue the govt. every time the U.S. accidently bomb civilians or interogate prisoners. We beat the Soviets because we outspent them. In a sense we were at war financially and they couldn't keep up. We call it "giving up civil liberties" but your life doesn't really change. You don't become a slave. All the govt. is wanting to do is listen to suspected terrorists talk on the phone (not just random Americans, despite what liberals are saying) and tighten up security here and there. If you aren't doing anything wrong than these things AT WORST should cause minor inconviences in day to day life. Not even that much. You might be stalled in the airport for a few more minutes. If people aren't willing to put up with minor inconviences to stay safe than maybe they should just go ahead and start praying 5 times and day on an ugly rug, start making women cover themselves up, and start cutting the heads off anyone that is not Muslim.
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
The U.S. govt. has not kidnapped anyone. If they have probable cause then they'll arrest them and let them go if nothing can be proved. They don't just yank people off the street or from in their homes for no reason.

Do you read the news much?
Canadian was falsely accused, panel says

Sure, we let him go after nothing could be proved. Too bad it took 10 months of torture in a Syrian jail to figure that out. This case also highlights the major drawback of torturing people to get information, namely that people being tortured will say anything just to get the torture to stop. This poor guy confessed to recieving terrorist training in Afghanistan despite the fact that, according to both the US and Canadian governments, he's never even been there.

I'm sure he would agree with you that giving up his civil liberties (right to fair trial and all that silly stuff) was a small price to pay.
 
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DS

Fenderbender
hoser, are you an intellectual?
You seem to know so much.
Xenophobia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That hardly describes my reasoning.

I just wanted to point out that the idea of
using religion to sanctify the brutalities of
the al queda does not sit well with me.

Intellectually,I guess Einstein was right.
To every action there is an equal and opposite
reaction.
 
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