Disciplinary Action

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by laffter, Mar 8, 2013.

  1. laffter

    laffter Active Member

    Before I go on a short rant, my specific question is this: How far back in history can management go to discipline you? Since I have been employed as a preloader at UPS (~1.5 years), I have been late maybe 10 times, 80% of which are probably about a minute late. But yes, 1 minute late is still a minute late and it counts, I understand. If management wanted to harass me with disciplinary action, can they do so regarding events from months ago?

    Why am I asking this? Just to better understand what may happen if I do what I may be forced to do in the future.

    A few days ago, I was finishing up my last truck. It was late, past 9am. Most drivers were already gone, and I was the last preloader in the building. This is fairly typical on specific days, as this mall route that I load requires a lot of stacking out. Time commit stops that have to be loaded down the center, at the very end of the day. My belt sup comes up and tells me that I need to get off the clock, that he will finish the rest. This directive came from the shift manager. I was almost done anyway, and I didn't want to choose that battle, on that day, so I left. I clocked out at 9:12.

    The driver who was covering the route that day made a big stink about it, and apparently :censored2: off the preload manager. He was saying how he could file a grievance on it himself, etc. The next day, my full time sup comes to me at the end of the sort and tells me that I need to be off the clock before 9. Again, a directive from the preload manager. Ever since that day, I have actually managed to be done before 9. So, I haven't had to deal with this yet. But... this isn't going to last forever. The next time that route gets hit really hard again, ...I'm going to be there for as long as it takes to finish. If I am approached about getting off the clock, and I find out that a sup finished my work, I will tell them ahead of time that I will file a grievance.

    This isn't even so much about them "stealing money" from me, or however some people choose to think about it. I put forth an effort to load my routes properly every day. It may take me longer to bulk out than others, but that has to do with the quantity of bulk stops, and the fact that I don't just pile crap in whichever way it will fit. I load them in a decent order, so as not to block earlier stops, and I try to wall up the middle in a way where the whole mess doesn't collapse as soon as the truck leaves. This takes a little bit more thought and time. So, I do this for the drivers, for the company, and I'm told to get off the clock? That feels to me like a kick in the face, and I won't let it slide again.

    I understand the bs that could follow after filing a grievance like this. So I'm just trying to mentally prepare for and go through the possibilities. Hence, the question.
  2. oldngray

    oldngray nowhere special

    taking more time in am saves the company money in the long run but the computer geeks can't seem to grasp that concept.
  3. Indecisi0n

    Indecisi0n Well-Known Member

    If they are directing you to be off the clock by 9:00am then at 8:57am stop whatever you are doing, clock out and leave. Doesn't matter what the truck or load looks like. When asked why you left just tell them you are working as directed.
  4. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    Yup, you HAVE to work as directed.
    Just make sure you take a look after you punch out, and SEE that sup finishing your work. Then file a grievance. You don't have to give them any warning, they already know they're violating the contract.
  5. UPS Preloader

    UPS Preloader Active Member

    In answer to your question, I believe it's 9 months. That being said, it can only be brought forward at this point if your late again so don't be late As previously stated "Work as directed" and either punch out by 9:00 or ask the Sup if you can stay and finish. If he says no, punch out and they stay and watch to see who finishes up and file a grievance for any time that a sup works. If they retaliate, file another grievance for the retailiation/harassment. They tend to bully the ones that let themselves get bullied, but if you stand up and fight thay tend to back off. (Just my opinion.)

    QKRSTKR Active Member

    Here are lates or call offs go for 6 months. 6 lates or call offs in a 6 month period, they can give you a warning letter. So if you were 1 minute late 6 times in the last 6 months, they could give you a letter. We call them infractions, a late or call off are the same.

    As for the other, they have no right to send you home early and sups load out for you. They can have another hourly with more seniority do it. The smart thing for them to do would have another preloader help you wrap up. That's what usually happens here. I would not take it upon yourself to punch out everyday by 9a.m. Especially if your not done. Dont let them fire you for job abandonment. If they did DIRECT you to do that, I would have a steward with me when they say it.
  7. laffter

    laffter Active Member

    I don't wear a watch; I don't carry a cell phone. If he wants me off the clock before 9, I expect somebody to approach me about it in time to do so. Am I required to be aware of the current time... at all times?

    I am not a huge fan of filing grievances prior to discussion. Throughout the course of my employment, I have had three discrepancies with regard to being paid for time worked. I have resolved all three issues without grievances, even though one of them took two months. I believe in communication, not going "above" people. But yes, I do understand that I am not required to tell them about an upcoming grievance. However, I would prefer to do so if it was possible to resolve the matter without going that route. It would be nice to hear, from his own mouth, what the deal is. Even though I ... sort of already know. I assume that paying a preloader overtime looks bad on some production report.

    Do I have to witness the sup working with my own eyes, or can I hear about it from the driver?

    Thank you all for the replies.
  8. laffter

    laffter Active Member

    6 months (... or 9 months) ... that's good to know. Although, I have never actually missed a day of work - not even taken a vacation/option day. Mostly just being late... very infrequently.

    There's actually a list of reasons why it takes me a bit longer to wrap up. I am in the last area on my belt. When the sort goes down, all of the missorts get put on the bottom belt to go down the line. As other people wrap up, they frequently fail to pay attention to these missorts coming down their way. Where do they end up? -at my diverter at the end of the belt. This is a daily routine. The belt sup often has other stuff to deal with. He can't keep making his way down there to pick up missed packages. Now, if I disregard them, the drivers will leave. These packages will be left in the building, and most likely will not be delivered that day. So, I take it upon myself to take this crap down to where it belongs - usually at least twice. I often also have to deal with missed irregs. As people wrap up their areas, they will often assist others next to them. I rarely receive assistance Tues-Thur, the heavy days. Not that I really ask for it. But, I wouldn't turn it down. I notice that some areas have routes with drivers who show up at 8:00-8:30 and immediately start working. They help wrap up their own trucks. Only one of my three drivers really does very much, and it's mostly because his route consists of many businesses that close by specific hours and he needs to be out on time. So, I'm running around cleaning up other peoples' missed crap, while there is no one really working in my area, and when everyone else finishes, they leave. It might sound like I'm complaining, but I'm really not. I'd stay until noon if they had work for me.

    Anyway, unless I am required to be aware of the time, I don't plan on clocking out until I am advised to do so, and then I will proceed as necessary.
  9. reydluap

    reydluap Active Member

    laffter, There are some really good suggestions be proposed here on this thread. But here is just another thought. Those irregs are NOT your problem. Tell the sup to have the loaders that miss them come and get them before they wrap up for the day. DO NOT LEAVE YOUR WORK AREA to distribute those packages. You can't save the world. When the sort goes down and they are left sitting there, the sup will have to answer for the "Left in Building" packages,not you. Load YOUR trucks and take care of YOUR work area.
  10. Leftinbuilding

    Leftinbuilding Active Member

    For your sake, I hope you find it "necessary" to work as directed. You are asking for trouble to do otherwise. Even the union is hamstrung if UPS can prove you failed to follow instructions.
  11. laffter

    laffter Active Member

    I do understand that. It's not my responsibility. Enough though I try not to, I feel like I am the only one who gives a damn about anything sometimes. Packages left in the building are just as bad as misloads. Except, we get hassled about misloads. I don't think anyone is responsible for packages left in the building.

    One specific event from the other day sticks out in my mind. A new hire was loading one of the areas (she's not working here anymore). She missed an irreg the first go-around - a huge over 100lb roll of carpet. Alright, business as usual. By the end of the sort, her area is full of packages. Toward the end, there's an army of 8 people, drivers included, cleaning up the area, trying to get the drivers out of there. We reverse the belt to send the irreg back down. None of the 8 people there catch it. Um... ok. I switch the belt to forward again to bring it back. I stand there, at a distance, and watch. Nobody pays attention. The irreg is about to pass them for a third time. I run over and shut off the belt... the driver of the route to which that package belongs starts to pull out. I hop off and bang on his truck for him to stop. I am thanked for my efforts. Of course, none of this matters. What matters is that occasionally I go 12 minutes into overtime. Ridiculous.

    In recent days, since this hassling over the whole 9 thing, I -have- been leaving the missed packages up to my belt sup. As I see him near my area, I remind him about them as well.

    I receive very little direction on a day-to-day basis. I don't recall anyone telling me to do anything all week, actually, other than the whole get off the clock thing. I normally show up, do my work, and leave. I even volunteer to help in other areas as needed... rarely being told to do so. Obviously, if I'm told to get off the clock, I will get off the clock, then I'll "proceed as necessary" with the grievance. That's what I meant to say, anyway.
  12. UPS Preloader

    UPS Preloader Active Member

    laffter, I agree with reydluap. Unless you've been told otherwise, the irregs and missed packages are not your responsibility. Your responsibilty is the trucks that are assigned to you. Unless otherwise directed, your truck needs to be your priority. Also, if your Sup wants you out by nine, let him know that you don't wear a watch and if he wants you off the clock he needs to come and tell you otherwise you won't know when it's 9:00. As far as whether you or the driver should watch for the supervisor working? The answer is both, but unless the driver is willing to sign the grievance or at a minimum be a witness, you need to be the one keeping track of the supervisor.

    Example: Several weeks ago I was told to clock out. After doing so I noticed one of the supervisors helping wrap up the mall truck in our building. (Not my pull.) I went down there and just stood there and observed. After several minutes the Sup asked me what I was doing so I told him "I was keeping track of my minutes." He laughed, worked another minute and then told me to get my *ss over there to help finish up. He paid me for the entire time as if I never punched out.
  13. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    You need to be careful with that advice--if you are told to punch out and go home you need to do just that. It is not your place to hang around for whatever reason. I forget the term they use but they can discipline you for failing to work as directed.

    QKRSTKR Active Member

    I agree to some extent. If he know a supervisor is going to finish his work, he may have a right to hang around and see who wraps up. I disagree with the OP about not needing to tell the company about a greivance. The 1st step in the procedure is verbal with the company. What he should do is inform his supervisor who tells him to leave that if a supervisor finishes his work he will be filing a grievance for the time worked. At this point I would also get a steward involved. That would most likely solve the problem right there.

    Thats my 2 cents.
  15. cosmo1

    cosmo1 Now, a low life jack wagon, and still loving it.

    This is your problem. Once upon a time, the company wanted us to "give a damn." Now, all we are required to do is make the numbers look good. If you are told to be off the clock by 9:00, do it. If you have irregs and other packages come down the belt that are not yours, ignore them. If you are not wrapped by 9:00 because of volume, don't worry about it. Left-in-building packages are not your concern, actually, the more the better.

    File when you see a supervisor wrapping for you, and try to get a good witness.

    And, when the driver comes in early to finish his load, unless he's on the clock, tell him to get lost.
  16. UPS Preloader

    UPS Preloader Active Member

    I agree. If a sup says to punch out, he needs to punch out. But what he is saying is that the sup wants him to punch out by 9:00 everyday whether he's done or not. He said it himself that he doesn't know what time it is, so it's up to the sup to come by on a daily basis and tell him when it's almost 9:00 so he can punch out. (If he's wrapped up in his work, he's not going to know what time it is.)

    QKRSTKR Active Member

    To his other question, discipline goes back 9 months, (union letter) attendance goes back 6 months. Of course that's here. Don't know if its the same everywhere.
  18. Leftinbuilding

    Leftinbuilding Active Member

    Just as an aside, I find it interesting that, working for a company whose very existence demands time management, one would not have access to a clock of some sort.
  19. ymelord

    ymelord Active Member

    Laffter, start times are posted, and you need to be there on time. Quit times are not, if they want you off by a certain time they need to tell you each day. Seniority matters here, if they send you home before your done and you have seniority over someone who gets to work longer, you should grieve. Sup's working, they make you leave, ask your steward to watch, he can stay and watch, if he has big enough balls, he can do it on the clock, as they kicked you out, and he is now doing union business, code as union business. Grieve the sup working always, it will end, till then it is easy money. BE ON TIME!
  20. barnyard

    barnyard KTM rider Staff Member

    The reason managers want PT people to work no OT is that the more OT a PT person works, the more evidence there is that UPS needs to add more FT combo jobs. It makes no sense, but what do you do.