Info in your DIAD cannot be used against you according to Article 37. If you are "observed" then that is different. One has nothing to do with the other.
District Xmas Stress
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UPS Lifer
Well-Known Member
In regards to lunches. My career was in California. There are state law ramifications. Laws take precedent over the contract.
If the company can prove monetary gain than it becomes a "cardinal offense". if not, then to get fired - you have to be trained, w/w, warned - in other words, you have to go through the steps of discipline. You can get by with "it was a mistake" once but if it happens consistently, nobody will buy that it was an accounting error! LOL!
Mikeb is right - you need to observe the employee unless they copt to it. I would make sure I had a witness also to make it stick. BUT, something like this should never get to this stage. Unless I thought the person was a thief, I would never personally take this approach. Your credibility with your people goes right down the tube if you do stuff like this.
I can tell you that I used to go out on a driver's route and "steal" the vehicle if he/she left the keys in the ignition, (or steal packages if the bulkhead was left open)! But my intent was to get the driver's attention. I never disciplined a driver for this. One time watching your package car drive away is all that was needed!!!!
If the company can prove monetary gain than it becomes a "cardinal offense". if not, then to get fired - you have to be trained, w/w, warned - in other words, you have to go through the steps of discipline. You can get by with "it was a mistake" once but if it happens consistently, nobody will buy that it was an accounting error! LOL!
Mikeb is right - you need to observe the employee unless they copt to it. I would make sure I had a witness also to make it stick. BUT, something like this should never get to this stage. Unless I thought the person was a thief, I would never personally take this approach. Your credibility with your people goes right down the tube if you do stuff like this.
I can tell you that I used to go out on a driver's route and "steal" the vehicle if he/she left the keys in the ignition, (or steal packages if the bulkhead was left open)! But my intent was to get the driver's attention. I never disciplined a driver for this. One time watching your package car drive away is all that was needed!!!!
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"If you are "observed" then that is different. One has nothing to do with the other."
Please re-read the thread. We were talking about her taking her lunch back at the building. Don't you think she stands a very good chance of being observed?? Simple thing to just check her records and see she put a lunch in 4 hours ago.
"Tooner, we caught you taking a second lunch last Monday. Then we checked again Tuesday. You steal time from us every day. You're fired".
Don't you feel it would be better not to falsify your records? Why even have to defend yourself for knowingly lying?
Please re-read the thread. We were talking about her taking her lunch back at the building. Don't you think she stands a very good chance of being observed?? Simple thing to just check her records and see she put a lunch in 4 hours ago.
"Tooner, we caught you taking a second lunch last Monday. Then we checked again Tuesday. You steal time from us every day. You're fired".
Don't you feel it would be better not to falsify your records? Why even have to defend yourself for knowingly lying?
"Info in your DIAD cannot be used against you according to Article 37."
Mike, technically you are correct. But can't you see how retarded this article is? At best, it gives you an extra day before you're fired. They see you (via DIAD records) doing things wrong. They know they can't fire you USING those records. So tomorrow they just follow you and watch you, THEN they fire you.
One may have nothing to do with the other, but one definately leads to the other.
Mike, technically you are correct. But can't you see how retarded this article is? At best, it gives you an extra day before you're fired. They see you (via DIAD records) doing things wrong. They know they can't fire you USING those records. So tomorrow they just follow you and watch you, THEN they fire you.
One may have nothing to do with the other, but one definately leads to the other.
A
Anonymous howard
Guest
the diad gets the time and gps location of every stop. you will find yourself in hot water for his sooner or later since the reports exist to point out the "accounting error." you can't blame the company for this one though - thank the drivers in CA for the lawsuit that made ups have to micromanage your lunch time.
Thanks for all the advice, its all good.
I simply needed to know what he wanted me to do, and why it took 6 months for them to tell me.................But they are busy..........So he told me what he wants, and now I know...I wasnt trying to be a smart a** I just didnt get the issue when Ive done it this way for possibly 5 yrs.
And if I take my lunch at the building, I put it in and then RTB time.
There is no one to take lunch with, and I really stressed the part about the late air. Which is why especially this time of yr, many of us take our breaks at the building. Im not sure how everyone else was doing it. But I seem to have been doing it wrong.
For today, I took 5 10 minute breaks, and got in since I was light. Isnt it funny that you find yourself saying, that 9.5 or 10 is light................Are we conditioned or what?
So Im safe for another day, cant get rid of Tooner yet.
Have a great weekend.
I simply needed to know what he wanted me to do, and why it took 6 months for them to tell me.................But they are busy..........So he told me what he wants, and now I know...I wasnt trying to be a smart a** I just didnt get the issue when Ive done it this way for possibly 5 yrs.
And if I take my lunch at the building, I put it in and then RTB time.
There is no one to take lunch with, and I really stressed the part about the late air. Which is why especially this time of yr, many of us take our breaks at the building. Im not sure how everyone else was doing it. But I seem to have been doing it wrong.
For today, I took 5 10 minute breaks, and got in since I was light. Isnt it funny that you find yourself saying, that 9.5 or 10 is light................Are we conditioned or what?
So Im safe for another day, cant get rid of Tooner yet.
Have a great weekend.
satellitedriver
Moderator
Thanks A.H.,
for making a point that I would like to address in this discussion.
One can type in any time for lunchtime.(required by union contract).
The DIAD can prove that one did not steal time, when one is observed eating,resting or goofing off, by the time stamp on every delivery.
If one, takes the same amount of time off for lunch, but at a different time shown on the DIAD, it can easily be explained by time and safety constraints.
So I stand with my original post statement;
"It is not a falsifaction of the time taken for lunch, just an accounting error of when it occurred.( I just read that last sentence and realized I should have been a lawyer.)
Any sane manager/sup would know why you are in the building hanging around."
On the other hand.
Say, you punch in lunch from 12 to 1 and the delivery records show you worked in that time frame. You punch out, without taking lunch. Will the company fire you for falsifying records?
When has that ever happened?(can you say never)
What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
Toonner should just have an honest discussion with her center manager and explain the situation.
If that doesn't work, well there are some good lawyer's out there,, if she was terminated over this issue.
PAX
brownmonster
Man of Great Wisdom
Take a half hour break for lunch during the day. Why is this such a complicated issue.
satellitedriver
Moderator
Read her original post. She has concern over her safety.
Rightly so.
satellitedriver
Moderator
She posted she "took" 10 minute breaks, not that she logged them into her diad.
She/we should not have to do this to satisfy some foolish contract language or company mandates.
PAX
satellitedriver
Moderator
It was negoitiated (sp)years ago by the union, now the company uses it to their advantage as a tool.
PAX
satellitedriver
Moderator
DS
Fenderbender
At our center its all up to the center manager...our current one says,code 05 if you need to for the next 6 weeks.In order to get paid for it,you have to change the code from 6 to 5 .The computer also must be changed to indicate that a "standard lunch" has not been taken and the
hours worked will be paid.
hours worked will be paid.
satellitedriver
Moderator
HEFFERNAN
Huge Member
I was always one of those drivers that would skip my lunch to get out early. Only taking it if It was convienent for me (dead time before pickups). Now with a mortgage, I'm not throwing away money like that. I had never put my lunch in the board for 6 years. No one ever questioned me because I always did my job superbly. Now with that lawsuit in California, everyone is to have a lunch in the Diad every day. I've been threatened with warning letters and termination when I forget to put it in. I honestly forget to put it in sometimes. They don't care when you take your lunch, AS LONG AS AN HOUR IS THE DIAD
To the people who say its falsifying records to put it anywhere and take your lunch at the end. AS LONG AS YOU CAN PROVE YOU WERE DELIVERING DURING THAT LUNCH HOUR , NO ONE WOULD EVER GET FIRED
To the people who say its falsifying records to put it anywhere and take your lunch at the end. AS LONG AS YOU CAN PROVE YOU WERE DELIVERING DURING THAT LUNCH HOUR , NO ONE WOULD EVER GET FIRED
Here in my state there is a law stating employees must take a break if they work five hours or more. I've had jobs (not UPS) where they made us take that lunch even if we only worked five or six hours and it had to be documented.
Of course, UPS thinks it is an entire world of it's own and can do whatever is necessary to make those numbers. They don't care whether or not you work through that break or sit in a very dangerous part of town, trying to scarf your lunch while watching like a hawk to make sure you're not messed with.
Is there any safe business stop on your area that would allow you to come in and have your lunch or would that be too uncomfortable? Would management be able to find you a decent place for a nice break? Yeah, right. I know.
I'd hate to see you fired for entering your break when you didn't take it but can't the boobs see on the diad that you made stops during that time? You'd be covering their butts by showing that you took the break while getting your work done in a more timely manner. The stress of working so long without a break would be doing them a favor, wouldn't it?
I'm not a driver and may be talking out my rear but have been with UPS long enough they can make a mountain out of a tiny mole hill. Any agreement from management as far as your lunch time should be documented and punched into the time clock for your own protection.
They can observe you taking your lunch late but why can't they observe you during the day while you're NOT taking your lunch. They don't want to leave their warm offices to watch. So there.
Bid off that Godforsaken route at first opportunity. dw
Of course, UPS thinks it is an entire world of it's own and can do whatever is necessary to make those numbers. They don't care whether or not you work through that break or sit in a very dangerous part of town, trying to scarf your lunch while watching like a hawk to make sure you're not messed with.
Is there any safe business stop on your area that would allow you to come in and have your lunch or would that be too uncomfortable? Would management be able to find you a decent place for a nice break? Yeah, right. I know.
I'd hate to see you fired for entering your break when you didn't take it but can't the boobs see on the diad that you made stops during that time? You'd be covering their butts by showing that you took the break while getting your work done in a more timely manner. The stress of working so long without a break would be doing them a favor, wouldn't it?
I'm not a driver and may be talking out my rear but have been with UPS long enough they can make a mountain out of a tiny mole hill. Any agreement from management as far as your lunch time should be documented and punched into the time clock for your own protection.
They can observe you taking your lunch late but why can't they observe you during the day while you're NOT taking your lunch. They don't want to leave their warm offices to watch. So there.
Bid off that Godforsaken route at first opportunity. dw
Its not an issue about taking my time for lunch, its where. And yes I have places I could, but then again it leaves me out in the dark, even later, in questionable residential areas, and yes people send people in those areas packages too.
OUr board has been broken down to 5 spaces, for breaks and lunch, and it is much easier to be accurate with showing the time we take this way. If they audited me, it would show break and nothing delivered during that time. I think that is the easiest way to stay out of trouble.
I dont like that I am forced to take a lunch when I would rather just get home, but I will find ways to utilize it as thats the rule. Give me 05 and I would love it. But instead I will take my 5 breaks closer to eve, and get out of the bad areas, by working straight through til Im outta there. I will bid out when I can, this is not the route I bid on, it barely resembles what I bid on. We are geting PAS,supposedly, soon, and Im kinda waiting to see how it changes then, whether it gets back to the original work, or gets worse. My sups know its bad, they dont ride with me much
I guess the neighborhood has gotten better. It was the 9th most dangerous, now its the 16th, so I probably worry for nothing.
OUr board has been broken down to 5 spaces, for breaks and lunch, and it is much easier to be accurate with showing the time we take this way. If they audited me, it would show break and nothing delivered during that time. I think that is the easiest way to stay out of trouble.
I dont like that I am forced to take a lunch when I would rather just get home, but I will find ways to utilize it as thats the rule. Give me 05 and I would love it. But instead I will take my 5 breaks closer to eve, and get out of the bad areas, by working straight through til Im outta there. I will bid out when I can, this is not the route I bid on, it barely resembles what I bid on. We are geting PAS,supposedly, soon, and Im kinda waiting to see how it changes then, whether it gets back to the original work, or gets worse. My sups know its bad, they dont ride with me much
I guess the neighborhood has gotten better. It was the 9th most dangerous, now its the 16th, so I probably worry for nothing.
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