Driver Told He Is Stealing If Drives 54 MPH in A 55 MPH Zone

[East coast navy]

I had a center manager on a OJS and he said you no that the speed reader is off about five mph. You can go 70 in a 65. I said maybe I should go 60 in a 65. He didn't say a word for the whole 45 min ride to my route.

 

[stink219]

We are talking about stealing time. I raised a question above.
Here is something to ponder,
Let's say you go on break and you hit the time button in your DIAD at 11:00am , 5 seconds later it changes to 11:01am (since the DIAD doesn't show seconds), you gave the company 0:55 seconds. Should you be reimbursed? Is that not "Stealing Time" but "Donating Time"?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

We are talking about stealing time. I raised a question above.
Here is something to ponder,
Let's say you go on break and you hit the time button in your DIAD at 11:00am , 5 seconds later it changes to 11:01am (since the DIAD doesn't show seconds), you gave the company 0:55 seconds. Should you be reimbursed? Is that not "Stealing Time" but "Donating Time"?

I manually enter all of my times in to the DIAD but you do make a good point.

When I retire the company will owe me a good chuck of change for "donated time".

 

[thecamel]

We are talking about stealing time. I raised a question above.
Here is something to ponder,
Let's say you go on break and you hit the time button in your DIAD at 11:00am , 5 seconds later it changes to 11:01am (since the DIAD doesn't show seconds), you gave the company 0:55 seconds. Should you be reimbursed? Is that not "Stealing Time" but "Donating Time"?

Wholeheartedly agree Stink. Maybe when we come back to the table on this TA; we can negotiate some language in there to establish a "bank" of sorts to capture all of these seconds lost on our timecards. Ups has every ability to measure our time down to the nanosecond so this should be an easy function to add to the diad. Think of ALL the overtime on your paycheck every Friday. This 1 mph thing just burns my . Stealing time, REALLY?

 

[cachsux]

Point taken; however, if this guy is driving the same speed for an extended period of time it doesn't sound like there was much acceleration, handling or stopping going on. Just sayin'.

Please tell us what the telematics show , other than the speed limit, what the traffic conditions were around the 6 sides of the vehicle were at the moment that would have allowed or prevented the driver from doing 55. Now try and discipline that driver. Oh, and please have all the certification as to the accuracy of both the telematics as well as the factory installed gauges within the tractor to show that your disciplinary info is valid.

 

[stink219]

I manually enter all of my times in to the DIAD but you do make a good point.

When I retire the company will owe me a good chuck of change for "donated time".

I believe that and I'm shocked at the same time. I'm surprised that you allow that being you are very much on top of your finances. Will you send them a bill on your last day? Lol

 

[InsideUPS]

Do me a favor----you drive on any part of 95 or 295 doing 54 and tell me what kind of reaction you get.

I find it odd that the drivers in question chose to go just 1 mph under the posted limit (again, based on ideal conditions). We have drivers who will stand by the exit with their DIADs in their hands waiting until they are one click over 9.5 to punch out. IMO both actions have no purpose other than to send a message.

Sometimes, the only way to get the message across is by following the UPS methods as bottomups stated above. Regardless, following the methods should not be looked at as "sending a message"...IMO...

 

[Nimnim]

We are talking about stealing time. I raised a question above.
Here is something to ponder,
Let's say you go on break and you hit the time button in your DIAD at 11:00am , 5 seconds later it changes to 11:01am (since the DIAD doesn't show seconds), you gave the company 0:55 seconds. Should you be reimbursed? Is that not "Stealing Time" but "Donating Time"?

Well then what if someone hits the button to end their break at 11:15, and 5 seconds later it changes to 11:16, should the driver then give 55 seconds back to the company? Seconds aren't shown because common sense says it'll average out in the long run, but anyone with half a brain knows if seconds are shown people will take advantage of it and sit there waiting til the last possible second to hit the button.

This isn't really relevant to the conversation though, and if someone is actually being disciplined for going 1 mph under the speed limit management has that person in their sights for something. I can see drivers being questioned for 5-10 under or over the speed limit, but 1 mph under someone really doesn't like them if discipline is initiated.

 

[cachsux]

1mph is ballpark 1.75% discrepancy. Show me equipment outside of military spec that's that consistanly accurate. And even then the outside conditions render it all moot.

Nim is right in that this driver has a target on him for some reason. That being said the union ( I know, stop laughing) should set a precident to stop this before it goes further with any other driver. Bringing in the State Police and DOT has always helped.

 

[stink219]

We are talking about stealing time. I raised a question above.
Here is something to ponder,
Let's say you go on break and you hit the time button in your DIAD at 11:00am , 5 seconds later it changes to 11:01am (since the DIAD doesn't show seconds), you gave the company 0:55 seconds. Should you be reimbursed? Is that not "Stealing Time" but "Donating Time"?

Well then what if someone hits the button to end their break at 11:15, and 5 seconds later it changes to 11:16, should the driver then give 55 seconds back to the company? Seconds aren't shown because common sense says it'll average out in the long run, but anyone with half a brain knows if seconds are shown people will take advantage of it and sit there waiting til the last possible second to hit the button.

This isn't really relevant to the conversation though, and if someone is actually being disciplined for going 1 mph under the speed limit management has that person in their sights for something. I can see drivers being questioned for 5-10 under or over the speed limit, but 1 mph under someone really doesn't like them if discipline is initiated.

The relevance was about time theft. I agree with the point of not having seconds for protective reasons.

 

[The Other Side]

The bigger point here, is how this manager came to this conclusion in the first place and the answer is simple. First, as ive said in other threads on this subject, the current article 6 language is vague and ambiguous. Managers have tried to stretch this language into pretzels by using telematics.

You all make good points about driving. We are professionals, we are the ones driving the vehicles and should have the final authority to determine what is safe and what isnt. BUT, the article 6 language opened the flood gates to junkyard lawyers in a cubicle and they intend on trying to make the best of it.

Furthering this problem is the "new" article 6 language that will only enhance this kind of "manager" and create a host of problems for all drivers.

Peace

TOS

 

[Dracula]

Upstate, I wish I could say your posts surprise me, but I've heard too many of them to be. It IS surprising that you haven't gone into management, the way you automatically assume your union brothers and sisters are guilty. Feeders is a different animal than tearing up the roads in your package car. Speed all you want in the little brown truck, but as over 9.5 clearly states above, if you get in any sort of accident, the very first thing they will check in the telemetry, is your speed. It doesn't matter what other circumstances are around, if you get in a crash and the speed limit was 55 MPH, and you were going 56 MPH, case closed, avoidable accident.

As a few of the guys here have said, feeders is a different ballgame than package car. Where I'm from, safety is the only thing that matters to me. That is not to say I'm dragging my feet or missing the sort, but a speed limit is a speed LIMIT. Upstate, I could care less if I'm pissing off other drivers. Driving 54 in a 55 zone is not impeding traffic. It's not like we are in the hammer lane doing 54. Sure, we have plenty of feeder drivers who drive, hammer down. That's their prerogative. I'd hate to be them when they wreck. And they eventually will, because if they are speeding, most likely, they are rushing on all phases of the job.

I drive at night, on a 70 MPH interstate with two lanes in each direction. I typically go 62 to 64 MPH. Even at that speed, in the dark, the 8 to 12 second eye lead time is long gone. I'm getting about 3 to 5 seconds with the low beams on. Maybe 6 to 8 with the high beams. Also, this is deer country. Our drivers hit deer frequently. Now, you can't do a lot about that, but being surprised by a deer directly in front of you can be dangerous. Your nature reaction is to swerve. That reaction can get you killed. So every bit of road ahead of you that you can see is vital. And the slower you drive, the more you can see.

I've been ridden with plenty. Our sups (or mine, anyway) never push the speed issue with me. I make my allotted drive time doing my speeds. And even if they did push it, that's when we are going to start our safety talk. Look, these supervisors will say whatever they want. It is up to each driver to stand up and make his own case for driving safe. Is Upstate going to come and stand up for you when your sitting at a panel hoping to get your job back because of an accident deemed avoidable? Of course not...he already assumes you're guilty.

This thread ties nicely into the two safety committee threads that have been going this weekend. Safety is a big catch word at UPS. But where the rubber hits the road, that talk gets shelved for production. Instructing drivers to drive OVER the speed limit is case in point. If you just thought this through, even a little, this would be an easy argument to thwart. Do you want me to drive safe, or fast?

 

[Dracula]

And over9.5, I barely use my cruise control. Never, NEVER at night, never in traffic, never when the roads are wet. So, for me, that gives me about an hour window after the sun comes up, but before I hit traffic coming back to the city. It took some getting used to, but I'm glad I converted back to manual foot control. The cruise can, easily, make you lazy. If you need to react to an emergency, you want that right foot down there in the mix. Also, just like speed, if you get in an accident, they also will check for cruise control use, and you better believe they will find a way to make that a point of your accident.

It's just not worth it to me.

 

[Dracula]

Stink, in feeders, I always wait until the next fresh minute before I hit my meal button. There are ways of doing it to time it pretty close, so even if a sup is riding with you, you can hit it real, real close.

 

[Dracula]

driver told he is "stealing from company" if he continues to drive 54 in a 55 zone in a feeder truck.

the converse, then , is true. most of our feeder drivers drive 59-60 in California which is a 55 zone for trucks. this is "stealing" too. they use more fuel, wear out tires and brakes faster, cause more wear and tear , by going faster. but they are never spoken to.

we have had four drivers fired for stealing time. 2 got their jobs back but 2 did not.

but if you use one of those brown UPS pens off duty you are "stealing" too. if you pick up a screw off the company grounds you are stealing. if you talk to a buddy about the NBA finals on company time. supervisors watch you-tube videos on company time. there are hundreds of examples.

the hypocrisy makes me sick.

No, those drivers going 59 to 60 MPH in a 55 MPH zone are breaking the law, plain and simple. Sounds like a call to the California DOT is needed.

 

[didyousheetit]

Assuming ideal weather and traffic conditions driving 54 in a 55 would be impeding traffic. Just sayin'.

adjusting for changing conditions. just saying.

 

[pretender]

I always think of their other speeding rule.


The OP is talking about Feeder drivers. When I'm on an open highway, I drive on cruise control. I'm sure we all do, because it's pretty hard to keep a tractor trailer at a constant speed. And I always have it set a little under, because any little downgrade the rest of you don't even notice causes that big rig to speed up.

Back in the day (before cruise control), we used to see who could have the smoothest line on our tach cards...

 

[didyousheetit]

Do me a favor----you drive on any part of 95 or 295 doing 54 and tell me what kind of reaction you get.

I find it odd that the drivers in question chose to go just 1 mph under the posted limit (again, based on ideal conditions). We have drivers who will stand by the exit with their DIADs in their hands waiting until they are one click over 9.5 to punch out. IMO both actions have no purpose other than to send a message.

Instead of watching other drivers stand around waiting to punch out. You need to punch out yourself and immediately proceed to the marked exit of building.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Instead of watching other drivers stand around waiting to punch out. You need to punch out yourself and immediately proceed to the marked exit of building.

Did I say that I stand around watching other drivers punch out?

 

[pretender]

OK---hadn't thought of that---didn't even realize cruise was an option in those things. Still, with that being said, don't you find it a bit odd that he is running exactlly 1 mph under the posted limit for an extended period of time?

Cruise, traction control, anti-lock brakes, air...