Employees violating the contract?

[Catatonic]

Just curious and never thought about it before now that a contract is between two parties so that means that both parties can violate the contract but all I ever hear about is the company violating the contract.
Is the contract between UPS and the Union or between UPS and it's bargaining unit employees?

When an employee takes 5 minutes extra for their lunch or a break, is that considered "violating our contract".

How about when an employee is disciplined? Is that because they violated the contract?

Interesting subject ... what do you think?

 

[drewed]

Well if its a break its stealing time......

 

[MonavieLeaker]

Just curious and never thought about it before now that a contract is between two parties so that means that both parties can violate the contract but all I ever hear about is the company violating the contract.
Is the contract between UPS and the Union or between UPS and it's bargaining unit employees?

When an employee takes 5 minutes extra for their lunch or a break, is that considered "violating our contract".

How about when an employee is disciplined? Is that because they violated the contract?

Interesting subject ... what do you think?

Taking an extra 5 minutes of break is considered stealing time...Not sure if it's a contract or company policy violation though

 

[dilligaf]

Just put the extra time under un-paid break. Or add it to lunch (it's unpaid).

 

[dannyboy]

Absolutely hourly violate the contract. And it should be dealt with the same way when the company violates the contract.

d

 

[UnconTROLLed]

True, but the supervisors are constantly shaving people of minutes in every area in every shift. So in general, most hourlies are getting paid for their time even if they are stealing, and some are losing.

Yes, I know this isn't what you were getting at, but someone had to speak the truth ;P

 

[dannyboy]

Steve

the supervisors are constantly shaving people of minutes in every area in every shift. So in general, most hourlies are getting paid for their time even if they are stealing,

Stealing is stealing, regardless of who is doing it. If the sup steals the time by shaving time cards, then he should be fired. If you have a driver that steals time then he should be treated the same way.

But like most sups that believe that the majority of the contract is a set of rules that they are successful at circumventing most of the time, we also have drivers that feel that UPS rules are there for them to figure out a way to circumvent as well.

The shoe needs to drop equally on both.

d

 

[The Other Side]

Absolutely hourly violate the contract. And it should be dealt with the same way when the company violates the contract.

d

So, in other words, DONT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT, right??

 

[The Other Side]

Steve
Stealing is stealing, regardless of who is doing it. If the sup steals the time by shaving time cards, then he should be fired. If you have a driver that steals time then he should be treated the same way.

But like most sups that believe that the majority of the contract is a set of rules that they are successful at circumventing most of the time, we also have drivers that feel that UPS rules are there for them to figure out a way to circumvent as well.

The shoe needs to drop equally on both.

d

Dannyboy, you seem to be hostile towards all UPS employees and it reads that way in all your posts surrounding employee actions. I get the impression that you believe all employees are guilty of something.

Look, when it comes to time, lunches and breaks, Time can be considered a "negilible" error. If you believe that 5 minutes should warrant a "term" for an employee, then I disagree strongly.

There are tradeoffs both on management side and employees sides and such an occurence would not warrant any discipline.

What if after an employee punches out for the day, and the sup comes and wants to discuss company business with the employee for 15 minutes??

Did the sup steal "paid for" time from the employee??

Any discussion of company business is considered "working".

Should the sup be fired?

The contract is simple, its not a set of rules, its a set of PROTECTIONS against "aggressive" company actions.

There is nothing in any of our agreements that can be considered RULES for employees.

The only circumventing is on the side of the management, most of whom believe they are Rhodes scholars and can interpret negotiated language better than the people who actually sat down and negotiated it.

Most conflicts occur when a sup "reads" into language and over steps "intention" with language.

These instances COST the company more money than it saves.

There are hundreds of cases where a management person FIRED and employee thinking he had it right. While the employee is out, another employee is paid to do the job of the fired employee, the fired employee is out 3 months, has his case in arbitration and returns with full back pay.

How did the company benefit from this??

When it comes to our contract, our employees know that they are RIGHTS and not RULES.

Learn the difference.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Steve
Stealing is stealing, regardless of who is doing it. If the sup steals the time by shaving time cards, then he should be fired. If you have a driver that steals time then he should be treated the same way.

But like most sups that believe that the majority of the contract is a set of rules that they are successful at circumventing most of the time, we also have drivers that feel that UPS rules are there for them to figure out a way to circumvent as well.

The shoe needs to drop equally on both.

d

I disagree, unless the stealing was unprovoked. I admit to stealing time in the past, only because there's a FT sup that actually goes in and changes my time card and removes minutes from me. I know he does it and he even admitted to it at one time. Since then he stoppe doing it when I complained with the union and threatened further action, but foudn other ways to harrass me. So there are undoubtably cases where you should steal back.

 

[705red]

Well if its a break its stealing time......

If an employee is 5 minutes late coming back from break its not stealing time! Its an attendance infraction! Just read ups's policy on attendance!

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

I agree that employees violating the contract is just as bad as management doing the same thing. It also violates Teamster bi-laws.

 

[drewed]

So where does policy and procedure fall in all this? MOST policies and procedures are no where to be found in the NMA, so if you have an employee that agrees they know the policy (attendance, personal conduct type stuff) or procedure ( compliance, operating equipment S&V VSTA type stuff) if they arent expressly written in the contract....wouldnt everyone do whatever they wanted, since techinichally they dont have to follow the procedures or policies?

Personally, I see the UPS policy book just as stringent as the NMA they should be held in the same light....in very few cases are they though

 

[705red]

So where does policy and procedure fall in all this? MOST policies and procedures are no where to be found in the NMA, so if you have an employee that agrees they know the policy (attendance, personal conduct type stuff) or procedure ( compliance, operating equipment S&V VSTA type stuff) if they arent expressly written in the contract....wouldnt everyone do whatever they wanted, since techinichally they dont have to follow the procedures or policies?

Personally, I see the UPS policy book just as stringent as the NMA they should be held in the same light....in very few cases are they though

If ups's policies do not matter, than why do you force people to sign them?

Were in your contract does it say that you can suspend an employee for attendance? How many infractions does it take to get suspended? Thats not in the contract!

 

[MC4YOU2]

but all I ever hear about is the company violating the contract.

Guess we all 'hear' what we want to hear maybe?

Is the contract between UPS and the Union or between UPS and it's bargaining unit employees?

I hear that when a management person gets fired, (like say for time card artistry) they stay fired. Makes you want to join a union.....

When an employee takes 5 minutes extra for their lunch or a break, is that considered "violating our contract".

When a manager talks about the 5 seeing habits on an OJS day break, is that stealing time?

How about when an employee is disciplined? Is that because they violated the contract?

Possibly...... but not necessarily. UPS has learned they can simply assert make believe fairy tales labeled as facts.

Interesting subject ... what do you think?

I think it would be awesome to see live televised full contact fights between managers. They can by start tossing out insults and innuendo, like this thread started, and end up beating the poop out of one another. We could call it 'American Libel'. Hoax, you could be the portly version of Simon Cowell?

 

[drewed]

Dont think Ive ever heard as hoke referring to as "portly" lol dont forget he is a mod now....and hell hath no fury like a mod called portly...

 

[UPSNewbie]

I think it would be awesome to see live televised full contact fights between managers. They can by start tossing out insults and innuendo, like this thread started, and end up beating the poop out of one another. We could call it 'American Libel'. Hoax, you could be the portly version of Simon Cowell?

I hope he wears that pink tennis outfit!

 

[SuperSup]

If an employee is 5 minutes late coming back from break its not stealing time! Its an attendance infraction! Just read ups's policy on attendance!

I've had 3 drivers terminated for taking more time on their break than they were allowed. I won all 3 at panel. Just keep dispensing your words of wisdom, and we'll just keep winning our cases. There MAY be some people on this site that actually take your advice; perhaps you may want to tell them the way things really are instead of the way you wish they were. Man, I wish you were a steward in my building, I'd be invicible. I go by the realities of the contract, you go by rhetoric that is not only "teamsterly optimistic", but is actually purely false.

 

[MC4YOU2]

invicible. Invisible??

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I think he was going for invincible.