Ethics and personal responsibilty

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
Let me clarify something else.

A birth mark, yes, if they discriminate against you, you have cause.

A tattoo, sorry, no cause.

As far as the large differences between centers and management taking those with visible tattoos to task, thank the newer drivers. Like I said, it was one of those things that until they began getting out of hand and more visible, it was no big deal. Now with people getting whole body parts inked, and areas of their anatomy mutilated for all to see, the company has begun the task of letting the word out.

d
 

UPS Lifer

Well-Known Member
Great post D!

Upstate, you bring up a good point. It is NOT personal responsibility to help others (or so some in our society think), so some people just don't care. I am pretty sure that I had that attitude at some point in my life.

I have found that just going out of your way a LITTLE bit to help people has great overall effects. Like the examples you gave, if anyone were to help those people it would not take much time or energy out of their day. It all comes back to you ten-fold. You can call it religion, karma, or whatever you believe. At the end of the day, what you put out usually comes back to you. There are exceptions, everyone will have bad days and bad things happen to them. Even the most giving of individuals get the short end of the stick sometimes. But overall, we reap what we sow.

The irony of it all is that when we act selfish we are doing it for personal gain, inherently. But, when you give to people in any way; monetarily, time, physical work, or emotional support it actually does benefit YOU more than the opposite action would.

Just my take on life.

just to add to your wonderful take on life - For me, it started with an awakening about 10 years before retirement. All to often we walk around in a fog of me and mine. I call it a lack of consciousness or being unconscious.
We need to be more conscious of the people around us and what affect we have. We have to be conscious of people in need and of our environment in which we live and work in every minute of every day. We will never be perfect but we must strive for perfection because it is the right thing to do.

I have said this before - If you live your life as if the most important person in your life is sitting on your shoulder observing every move you make, you will always do what is right and just.
 

UPS Lifer

Well-Known Member
While there are always exceptions to every rule , I often find that people are mistreated who allow theirselves to be mistreated.

It is rare that I disagree with you but on this case I would put forth another premise that you may understand more clearly.

With any position in management comes some power and as you go up the ladder the more power that person has. Power can be used to intimidate even the most courageous individuals.

As a management person we have a personal, moral and ethical responsibility to our people to make sure we adhere to the highest standards. Unfortunately, this is not always the case. I have personally known management people who will do whatever it takes out of greed and want of more power. We have a recognize this and take responsibility to minimize the affects of people like this for the good of our people and our company. We do that by training, coaching, counseling, and managing conflict. This is power used in an ethical and moral way.
 

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
If you live your life as if the most important person in your life is sitting on your shoulder observing every move you make, you will always do what is right and just.
Exactly......do your job like everyone is watching, therefor it does not ever matter if they are watching or not.

As to power usage, power is one of those things much like money.

Everyone thinks that if they had millions, about how much good they would do. Problem is, very few people that do end up with money, end up doing any good with it. Most just increase their problems even more. A magnifier of personal flaws if you will.

Power is the same way. IT intensifies the personal flaws to the point the person is no longer recognizable. In my years, I have seen many people go into management and the flaws grow exponentially to the power that is extended to the person.

All of the schooling given did very little if anything. Counseling even less. Several have been let go, some promoted to the ivory towers in Atlanta, out of contact with the hourly.

d
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
Some of the most ethical and personally responsible people that I have met in my life did not have a dime to their name.

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
 

tieguy

Banned
It is rare that I disagree with you but on this case I would put forth another premise that you may understand more clearly.

With any position in management comes some power and as you go up the ladder the more power that person has. Power can be used to intimidate even the most courageous individuals.

As a management person we have a personal, moral and ethical responsibility to our people to make sure we adhere to the highest standards. Unfortunately, this is not always the case. I have personally known management people who will do whatever it takes out of greed and want of more power. We have a recognize this and take responsibility to minimize the affects of people like this for the good of our people and our company. We do that by training, coaching, counseling, and managing conflict. This is power used in an ethical and moral way.

I'll keep my argument simple for now. Some people do a terrific job of gaining good treatment. Others seem to make theirselves victims all the time. Why is that? What makes one different from the other.

 

mittam

Well-Known Member
The problem I have with shined shoes and other 'uniform appearance' is that it is more important than the real issues.

We have sups who are more concerned with the color of our underwear (gray t-shirts) or shined shoes than the fact that we can't get the sort wrapped, can't get our NDA into our first section, can't get 0/70's labeled properly or get a decent dispatch.

The place is falling apart and the big worry is whether our shirts are buttoned all the way.

Randy
www.leastbest.com

so true least. regardless of what others say the drivers are the only ones accountable not preload sups getting it wrapped up not dispatch getting under 9.5 not sups coming down on misloads its all up to those of us in the brown everyday to have enough accountability to get the job done. I agree we need polished shoes decent hair and all BUT give some accountability to the sups and loaders and especially the idiots ooooops the ones doing dispatching spread it out not just the drivers. We all have customers, we as drivers are customers of the dispatch and the preload at least thats the way they used to teach us. but that is gone and we are the ones responsible to carry out the ups image to the public. that and money is all ups cares about not any of us out there everyday . they truly dont carry about safety they care that an accident or injury doesnt come back to bitye them in the butt. BUT!!!! I do have a lot of personal pride and do my job as well as possible everyday I love what I do and care about my customers. I do dress anad groom neatly everyday and feel if the company has standards as such we must adhere to it. Just remember the customer line is a lot longer than just driver to customer, i guess thats enough ranting
 

mittam

Well-Known Member
the Problem I Have With Shined Shoes And Other 'uniform Appearance' Is That It Is More Important Than The Real Issues.

We Have Sups Who Are More Concerned With The Color Of Our Underwear (gray T-shirts) Or Shined Shoes Than The Fact That We Can't Get The Sort Wrapped, Can't Get Our Nda Into Our First Section, Can't Get 0/70's Labeled Properly Or Get A Decent Dispatch.

The Place Is Falling Apart And The Big Worry Is Whether Our Shirts Are Buttoned All The Way.

Randy
www.leastbest.com

the Fourth Of July, Independence Day. And Rain, Blessed Rain. And Some Time To Spend At The Computer.

i Had Another Poster Send Me A Pm That Got Me To Thinking A Bit. It Goes Well With Some Of The Other Threads That Have Been In Action This Week. Here Is Part Of That Pm.

“where In The World Has The Ethics And Morals Gone? Not Even That, Where Have They Gone Within This Company? This Company Was Built On Ethics And Codes Of Conduct. And It Means Nothing. There Was A Time When A Handshake And A Promise Meant Something. Nowadays, It's Nothing More Than Whitewash On A Deteriorating Fence. It Looks Pretty But There Is No Substance Or Foundation To It.”

i Just Got Back From Sam’s, Got A Large Crowd That I Am Feeding Tomorrow. Hamburgers, Fruit Salad, Chicken And Swimming Pool Time! Anyway, I Happened To End Up At The Men’s Room, Which The Guy Had Just Cleaned. He Was Pushing The Mop Bucket Out And Had Opened It Back Up.

anyway, I Was Inside One Of The Stalls, When Someone Else Came Into The Bathroom. They Walked To The Far Side, And Then Backed Out. I Could Not Help But Notice That The Individual Was Peeing In An S Pattern On The Floor As He Backed Up.

now To My Point.

there Is A Group Of You That Have Just Read The Post That Derive Pleasure, Admiration For The Pee-er, Or Just Get A Kick Out Of Chaos In General. The Group That Has Long Given Up On Trying To Be The Best That They Can Be, And Have Settled For Being (in The Words Of One Here) The “worstest” They Can Be.

there Is Also Another Situation, That Of Mcdonalds. While Not Considered Fine Dining By Any Means, They Have A Standard. They Live And Die By That Standard……..it’s Called Consistency. While The Food You Have Might Not Be Great, It’s The Same Day In And Day Out. The Big Mac You Eat Today Tastes Just Like The One You Ate Last Year, And Will Eat 2 Years From Now. Consistency.

same With Ups. They Have Standards, Which Over Time, Have Been Borne Out By Results. One Of Those Is The Appearance And The Productivity Of The Driver. Also To An Extent, The Demeanor Of Said Driver. That Is What The Customer Has Come To Expect, And What They Demand. What They Have Lacked Is An Overall Consistency. That Is Partially Due To Management Allowing Freedoms To The Drivers Due To Self Governing Of Those Drivers.

over The Last 5-10 Years Or So, The Shift To More Outwardly Self Expression Has Become Popular In Our Society. Some Of That Is To Be Expected, Some Goes A Bit Overboard. But This Is America. You Can Self Mutilate Yourself If That Is What You Want To Do. Poke Holes In Your Ears, Nose, Lips, Tongue, Ink Up Your Body All You Want. Be Belligerent, Obnoxious, Etc All You Care To Be. Sure, Get In The Mans Face And Tell Him No. And By All Means Stand Up To All Those That Would Put A Curb On Those Things You Do Or Do Not Want To Do. It’s Your Right, Your God Given Right, Nailed Down In Blood By Those That Came Before.

problem Is That When The Culture Clash Comes To A Head, Then Things Get Ugly. And The Younger Employees Want To Participate With An “in Your Face” Zeal That Is More Vocal Now Than In The Past.

take Our Center. Until This Year, Tats And Other Body Mutilations Were Not An Issue. Most Drivers Either Had Them Covered, Or Didn’t Make A Big Deal Out Of It. But That Was Not Good Enough. Some Of The Newer Drivers Saw What Everyone Else Was Getting By With, So They Started To Push The Edge.

so Starting This Week, Any One With Exposed Tats Will Be Sent Back Home. Without Pay. You Will Be Required To Cover Them At All Times While On Duty. No Ear Rings (with The Exception Of The Ladies), No Lip, Nose Or Tongue Jewelry. Shoes To Be Polished, Hair To Be Cut To Standards Or A Cap Worn Over The Hair With It Being Tucked Up Under At All Times. No Non-standard Ups Clothing To Be Worn (this In Response To Several Of The Younger Drivers Wearing Caps Other Than Brown, And Wild Colored Clothing That Was Longer Than The Ups Uniform I.e. Shirts And Shorts That Showed Past Where The Uniform Stopped).

to The Majority Of The Drivers, Its Business As Usual. For The Ones That It Affects, The Crying And Moaning Started. And Several Talked About Discrimination.

sorry, Not Its Not Discrimination, Its Called Market Share Protection. Protection From A Bunch Of Circus Clowns (actually The Case Could Be Made To Call It More The Circus Freak Show), That Don’t Understand Personal Responsibility For Their Actions.

and It Was Not Enough That Ups Allowed A Certain Level Of This Behavior To Go Without Pushing Back, They Had To Try To Go Further.

yes, That 1800 Dollar Art Work You Have Is Very Nice And Great Detail Too! (sure Does Let Every One Know What Side Of The Sexual Fence You Are On As Well), But It Is A Bit Too Graphic For Ups To Allow You To Make Deliveries Out In Public. And They Do Have The Right To Decide What Image Their Drivers Will Portray In Public. Notice, I Said Their Right, As Certified By Legal Action.

so It Is Up To The Person To Decide, Artwork, Personal Statement, Self Aggrandizement, or a Career At Ups, Undeniably The Best Delivery Company In The World. Maybe Not The Best Employer, But That Is Another Subject. And To Have Become The Best, They Had To Uphold Their Core Beliefs And Standards.

over The Last Few Years, There Has Been A Lot Of Slack Given In Many Areas. Look For That To Decrease Over The Next Year. Self Governance Has Not Worked In Many Areas, So Look For Management To Enforce Things That Last Year Were Not An Issue.

and For Those That Have Made It Their Life’s Ambition To Be The “worstest” Look For The Next Few Years To Be Very Tough.

d

Awesome Post Danny One Of The Best I Have Ever Read!!
 

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
Least best
The Place Is Falling Apart And The Big Worry Is Whether Our Shirts Are Buttoned All The Way.
I call that the concerned mamma policy. You know, the one where mamma asks you if you put on clean underwear before you go out, in case you are in a bad car wreck?

Dude, when we go out of business, we will at least go lookin goooood!:wink2:

Its been a hard day, can you tell?

d
 

satellitedriver

Moderator
Id prefer to look good just to look good not just because its required of me. You never have a second chance to make a good first impression and you never know who you will meet. If UPS wants my brown machine to llok like a dustball so be it, I know I will still look and feel good.
Off topic I know, but I like to have my customers do a second glance and do the old Billy Crystal voice and say,"You look marvelous, simply marvelous."
Self pride is the key. No one has power over any of us, unless you give that power to them.
 

dilligaf

IN VINO VERITAS
Its been a hard day, can you tell?d

Ya, I can tell. LOL

I'll keep my argument simple for now. Some people do a terrific job of gaining good treatment. Others seem to make theirselves victims all the time. Why is that? What makes one different from the other.

Please expound on this, I am interested in your theory. Seriously, Tie, I am interested.

It is rare that I disagree with you but on this case I would put forth another premise that you may understand more clearly.

With any position in management comes some power and as you go up the ladder the more power that person has. Power can be used to intimidate even the most courageous individuals.

As a management person we have a personal, moral and ethical responsibility to our people to make sure we adhere to the highest standards. Unfortunately, this is not always the case. I have personally known management people who will do whatever it takes out of greed and want of more power. We have a recognize this and take responsibility to minimize the affects of people like this for the good of our people and our company. We do that by training, coaching, counseling, and managing conflict. This is power used in an ethical and moral way.

The more I read your posts the more sure I am that I would have enjoyed working for you. I have been at this ctr for a little better than 3 yrs and not once have I had a mgt team (from the lowliest of sups up to and including DM's) that has shown any moral or ethical responsibility towards their employees.

just to add to your wonderful take on life - For me, it started with an awakening about 10 years before retirement. All to often we walk around in a fog of me and mine. I call it a lack of consciousness or being unconscious.
We need to be more conscious of the people around us and what affect we have. We have to be conscious of people in need and of our environment in which we live and work in every minute of every day. We will never be perfect but we must strive for perfection because it is the right thing to do.

I have said this before - If you live your life as if the most important person in your life is sitting on your shoulder observing every move you make, you will always do what is right and just.

Same as above.

This quoted out of UPS's "Code of Business Conduct". Before Tie jumps in here and claims something like I hate the man and there is no mistreatment by mgt of employees (LOL), no I don't hate the man (although there are days when that is very difficult for me to say) and yes there is absolutely mistreatment by mgt. Some are very fortunate to have great mgt teams. It's to bad that not every center within this company has the same fortune

Let's not forget the mistreatment of management by hourly employees as well. Life at UPS is a two way street, we are all working for UPS by choice, so ideally, mutual respect for UPS and our customers should be our common goal, along with making a good living and providing for our families.

You are right Chan. I do have to say that it is more dicey to mistreat mgt when they hold your pink slip.

It is hard to give respect when it is not given. I have always had a very good work ethic. My ethics and respect are for my customer at this point in time as my mgt team does not deserve any. I do not trust my mgt team and I have made this perfectly clear to my center manager. I told him.
 

dilligaf

IN VINO VERITAS
I'll keep my argument simple for now. Some people do a terrific job of gaining good treatment. Others seem to make theirselves victims all the time. Why is that? What makes one different from the other.
Tie, I don't always agree with everything that you say and I know you don't always agree with me. For all I know you have me on ignore. On my part it has never been personal.

I would like to know more about your theory. I am open to learning. One of the things that I like about BC is that everyone has different experiences and thoughts. If I can learn something from your theory that would improve my ability to deal with the bs at work, I will happily. And I would, happily, give you the credit for that.

So please, clarify your statement.
 

UPS Lifer

Well-Known Member
I haven't shined my shoes since I bought them 2 yrs ago.
All my shirt are wrinkled and pants too.
Yet they make me drive everyday.

I have to agree with Pretzel-man. You state they MAKE you drive. Again, it sounds like you don't want to do it. I am sure there are many other folks that would be chomping at the bit to get behind the wheel. Let your boss know you don't want to drive or at least take some pride in yourself and look like a pro behind the wheel!

And..... Shame on your supervisor for allowing you to go looking like you slept in your uniform!
 

toonertoo

Most Awesome Dog
Staff member
Im all for appearance guidelines. None of the guys at my center ever look bad. Occasionally one will come in with a wrinkled shirt or forgot to shave, but nothing big, and they get told.
But I seriously gotta ask, what the heck does management think we look like beating on doors at 8pm, when its 90 or zero out. Is that ethical? How professional can we look? We look like idiots for being out at that hour, IMO. First they tell us to be safe, yet on the hottest and coldest days of the year, no adjustment is made for our safety. Then they tell us to look out for bad weather but our radios if we still have them are in the back and we cant hear them. I think everyone was more ethical and responsible when we could get home at a decent hour. I think UPS had more ethics on how to treat people when they actually cared and we all, including management werent just numbers. And the job got done with the right amount of people. That would be ethical. And when the car wash was allowed to do their job, and take pride in their work also, instead of leaving our cars looking like a 4yr old washed them, because they also are not allowed to do a good job in a fair amount of time. How proffesional does that look? Just another rant. JMHO
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
I do my part to maintain a professional appearance by shining my shoes and ironing my uniforms....but it is frustrating to me when UPS fails to uphold the same standards they hold me accountable for. My truck is consistently filthy...and the uniforms that are provided to me do NOT fit properly and are of poor quality. Unwashed vehicles, missing buttons, torn seams and visible butt-cracks and bellies make for a very unprofessional appearance, whether the shoes are shined or not.
It was stated in an earlier post that "when the little things are taken care of, the big things fall in line." I wish that were the case at UPS, but unfortunately it is not.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
Soberups - You just don't get it. It is not YOUR definition of what is reasonable.... It is UPS's definition of what is reasonable....
A "Grandfather Clause" indicates entitlement - When it comes to appearance (barring religious and personal health) there is no entitlement.
We have a driver who was hired 18 years ago with a tattoo on his arm. At no time was he ever told that tattoos were not allowed. One day, out of the clear blue, some new center manager arbitrarily decided that the tattoo was "not reasonable" and he instructed this driver to wear a long sleeved shirt to cover it...even in the middle of summer.
UPS has the right to define what "reasonable" is....but they cannot arbitrarily change it based upon the whims and personal biases of some center manager. "Reasonable" means just that....consistent, fair, justifiable. It is not in any way reasonable to retroactively change a rule regarding tattoos 18 years after hiring somebody who was allowed to have one under the policies that were in place and agreed upon at that time.
 

brownman15

Well-Known Member
But I seriously gotta ask, what the heck does management think we look like beating on doors at 8pm, when its 90 or zero out. Is that ethical? How professional can we look? We look like idiots for being out at that hour, IMO. First they tell us to be safe, yet on the hottest and coldest days of the year, no adjustment is made for our safety. Then they tell us to look out for bad weather but our radios if we still have them are in the back and we cant hear them. I think everyone was more ethical and responsible when we could get home at a decent hour. I think UPS had more ethics on how to treat people when they actually cared and we all, including management werent just numbers. And the job got done with the right amount of people. That would be ethical. And when the car wash was allowed to do their job, and take pride in their work also, instead of leaving our cars looking like a 4yr old washed them, because they also are not allowed to do a good job in a fair amount of time. How proffesional does that look? Just another rant. JMHO

on my route we are losing business because i have apartment complexes that close at 6pm and i am del them at 7 or 8pm. wind up sending most pkgs back after 3 attempts. get complaints just about everyday.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
on my route we are losing business because i have apartment complexes that close at 6pm and i am del them at 7 or 8pm. wind up sending most pkgs back after 3 attempts. get complaints just about everyday.

When you say close at 6pm does that mean that they are a gated community? If so, may I suggest you get to know one of the residents who frequently gets pkgs and ask them for the entry code. I would think leaving would not be an issue, just getting in.
 

New Englander

Well-Known Member
When you say close at 6pm does that mean that they are a gated community? If so, may I suggest you get to know one of the residents who frequently gets pkgs and ask them for the entry code. I would think leaving would not be an issue, just getting in.

Upstates correct. Most places like this will give us access via a key or combo. Once inside a normally locked apartment we can release at the correct doors.
 

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
I think what he is talking about is not access, but the ability to leave packages for the residents at the office.

I delivered several large appartment complexes like that. Had it not been for the office taking the packages, I would have had 15 or more sendagains just from those areas. And they did close at 5, So I always tried to get there before then.

99% of the neighbors would not take them either.

IMHO, since you deliver there after the office closes, they should be shown as missed. Even though you attempted delivery, you could have delivered them to the office had you been there during regular business hours.

But EDD knows best.

d
 
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