FedEx Ground warehouse workers are unionizing right now.

[Ricochet1a]

Not for or against the Teamsters here. But this certainly does not seem to have been a "slam dunk". The union certainly must have had a good idea of how the vote was going to go, and must have known it was going to be overwhelmingly bad. Big win, close win, close loss, even moderate loss, the election is held. If the vote is held and its an overwhelming defeat, as bad as it looks now it would have been much worse. Not only bad for the employees of FedEx but also now for the Teamsters and even other Teamster barging units. Yup, the Teamsters cut their losses. Reality is that to unionize in the current enviorment, employees need to be willing to risk their job. Sign a card, risk your job. Vote for the union, risk your job. Vote the union in, try for a contract, risk your job. Untill the majority of FedEx employees are willing to risk it, there will be no union.

Of course it was a slam dunk - trying to get a shop of handlers in Massachusetts to organize... Very definition of a unionization slam dunk.

How could it of been worse if the election was held and it turned out to be a defeat? Unions get voted down all the time and keep on trying. The union trying to represent the flight attendants of Delta has been voted down 4 times in the past few years, yet they still kept on coming back. If that union would've pulled their petition for an election after they had filed and knew they wouldn't succeed, it would've been game over for that union, no Delta employee would've gone to the effort to have them try an additional 3 times and counting.

The Teamsters were worried about losing a bit of face with a defeat, so they sold out the handlers who risked their jobs and put their trust in the Teamsters - the going got tough and the Teamsters ran away. You're right on one thing, the Teamsters were FAR more concerned with their image and prestige with their existing membership and abiilty to use that in contract negotiations. If they are so worried about their ability to get favorable contracts that they ran at the first sign of trouble - in order to keep face - they will NEVER get into a company like FedEx. You seem to be suggesting "what is good for the Teamsters is good for the employees of FedEx" - even if the employees of FedEx get left standing in the cold with a cancelled union vote AFTER they went through the effort of getting one organized. That's not organized labor, that's riding a gravy train of revenue from existing union membership. This is the number one reason why employees don't trust unions, that the union will cut and run if it has to fight a little bit. We now know the Teamsters will cut and run rather than risk losiing a bit of face in their desire to organize FedEx.

Do you think the handlers of that terminal will ever trust the Teamsters to follow through again? Do you think the rest of FedEx employees - once this news gets out - will be willing to, as you put it "sign a card, risk your job". I've been there, I know what I'm talking about. There is risk, and there is stupidity - going through the process of getting a shop to get enough cards signed to get a certiification vote underway with the Teamsters is closer to stupidity than "risk" with the actions of the Teamsters on this one. What risk did the Teamsters take??? The handlers ended up basically slitting their own throats, because the Teamsters risk threshold was nil. So the lowly wage employee is supposed to take all the risk, while the Teamsters keep their reputation nice and shiny, no "hustle" for the Teamsters, just for the employees who risked their job for absolutely no gurarantee of return.

No, this was a defeat for the Teamsters, a defeat FAR greater than if they went through the election and lost it. The word is getting around Express, the Teamsters can't be trusted to follow through if the going gets a bit tough. I held out hope for the Teamsters till Thursday night, I carried more than a bit of water for them, not now. An Express employee would have to be certifiable nuts to sign an IBT union card and make it openly known in their station.

 

[CharleyHustle]

"Not for or against the Teamsters"

I see your displeasure. I see no other reason than this was going to be a blood bath. It looks to me like the FedEx employees signed cards, authorized a vote then turned tail, and the Teamsters slunk away. It only shows the enormity of the task to bring collective bargaining to this work place in this day and age, unless all the employees are in the boat. Most new successful organizing efforts, the Teamsters are competing against other unions for those bargaining units. I don't see any "white knights" rushing in to fill the vacuum left by the Teamsters. The workers at FedEx seem a little to comfortable or a little to afraid of Fred S to step out of line, thus they will remain unorganized. The downside for FedEx workers is it is going to have to get much worse, working condition wise, before an effort is again put forth. Knowing Fred, he'll probably meet them half way.

 

[vantexan]

As far as Fred "taking care of those who stood by him...". Look at how he takes care of the Ground drivers. Look at your pension now compared to 4 years ago. Look at how the 401k matching funds were cancelled (right after the pension was gutted), when Fred got nervous in 2009. If your idea of being taken care of is something slightly better than wage slavery, then yes, Fred will take care of you.

Added it up, over the years I've worked for or with 61 mgrs and sr.mgrs. I'm very aware of just how much they care about us. With the exception of a handful, most of them only cared what I could do to help their career. I don't expect Fred to be any different. I just remember a few years ago when he was fighting the union he made the statement to some group that he would take care of the employees that stuck with the company all these years. At the time I wondered if he would come up with more money like in the late 90's to placate the senior employees. And I wondered if we in mid-range would be left out again. At any rate he was assuring them that FedEx employees would be rewarded when apparently he had no such intent. It's frustrating to hear talk radio hosts like Limbaugh and Hannity take his side when they believe the company is doing well by us and there's no need for a union. And of course they're anti-union anyways but there are unions that have grown fat and corrupt and then there are situations like ours where a union is needed. Unfair to lump us all together but that's the way it is.You are saying we'll reorganize by next year's election most likely. Any concrete evidence of this? Not questioning your veracity, just want to know if you have solid proof. If I knew they'd try to structure rts to give FTer's a full 40 hrs I'd deal with it. If it's their goal to get us as close to 35 hrs as possible and put constant pressure on us to do so then I need to start making plans. And I suspect they don't want us anywhere near overtime.

 

[vantexan]

If however they would go ahead and top out those of us in mid-range after a reasonable time then whatever they do is fine as long as I get more than 35hrs. Not holding my breath, and I suspect they'd be happy to replace alot of angry FTer's who quit with PTer's. If they leave the pay as is and drive us down to near 35 a week then we're screwed. Except LTFedExer. He wants to pay them to let him work for them.(just kidding!)

 

[Ricochet1a]

"Not for or against the Teamsters"

I see your displeasure. I see no other reason than this was going to be a blood bath. It looks to me like the FedEx employees signed cards, authorized a vote then turned tail, and the Teamsters slunk away. It only shows the enormity of the task to bring collective bargaining to this work place in this day and age, unless all the employees are in the boat. Most new successful organizing efforts, the Teamsters are competing against other unions for those bargaining units. I don't see any "white knights" rushing in to fill the vacuum left by the Teamsters. The workers at FedEx seem a little to comfortable or a little to afraid of Fred S to step out of line, thus they will remain unorganized. The downside for FedEx workers is it is going to have to get much worse, working condition wise, before an effort is again put forth. Knowing Fred, he'll probably meet them half way.

There no way at this point to know if the vote would've been a bloodbath, or a close call. It doesn't matter. To the Teamsters it mattered, since they were worried about their image enough to cut and run.

At this point, no one knows how many of those 70+ handlers signed cards. It takes at least 30% in the location/craft to get a petition for a certification vote approved. So we know at least 21 or so signed cards, and back in June, the IBT believed that there was a decent chance to get a majority of those choosing to vote, to vote yes. Why else file a petition for a certification election?

So obviously IBT underestimated either the willingness of the handlers who didn't sign union cards, but were desiring union representation, to actually vote yes if an election were to occur - or the IBT underestimated the machine of FedEx. I think it was a combination of the two.

But again, this isn't the issue. The issue is that the handlers of that small, tiny terminal went out on a limb and gathered enough signatures to get a petition for certification going - then shortly before the vote was to take place, the Teamsters cut and run. What about "solidarity", the handlers of that terminal came more than half way to the Teamsters, they risked their necks and got enough signatures to get a certification election scheduled. The Teamsters should've followed through on the election, to prove that they wouldn't back out if things looked a bit bleak. What the Teamsters gained in terms of saved public "face", they more than lost in terms of trust of FedEx employees.

The Teamsters went along with the certification process, thinking that they could finally create a crack in the armor of FedEx's anti-union stance. Hell, everyone thought that this vote was going to be the one that got the ball rolling for the Teamsters and put FedEx on the defensive. When the IBT did their vote count, they decided that they either wouldn't risk a loss, or just plain couldn't win. In the end, their perceived image of invincibility was more important than maintaining solidarity with the handlers that took the risk and wanted to vote. Unions lose certification elections all the time, but very few cut and run 48 hours before an election.

"Teamsters are competing against other unions for those bargaining units"

You're absolutely correct. At this very moment, there are many who have been working behind the scenes to try to get Express to organize (presumably under the IBT), to find another union in the AFL-CIO (not in the CTW coalition) who would be willing to take up the challenge. Right now we are trying to find a union that currently represents non-pilots in the airline industry (which has RLA experience) to accept the challenge of attempting to organize Express. Honestly, it is a near futile attempt, but virtually no one I know that has been working to organize Express will place their trust in the IBT in the future.

As I stated in another sting, at this point, Express employees should be either creating an exit strategy, or grit their teeth for as long as they can stand it. Express employees aren't going to throw away their income, to gum up the works at Express - Express can and will terminate employees in a flash if they are even suspected of sabotage, work slowdowns, organized sick outs or actively engaging in union organizing. There is absolutely NO PROTECTION for employees of Express (or Ground) with regards to their jobs. All are presumed guilty unless they can either prove their innocence or are willing to hire an attorney to give fight to the FedEx legal department. An Express employee can take a brochure from the IBT into a meeting with Express management and state, "I have these legal protections as detailed here...". To which management would state, "Fine"; then they'd proceed to terminate the employee if that was indeed the decision made prior to the "meeting". Damn few employees were in the position I was prior to voluntarily leaving to try to do some open organizing within an Express station.

I still don't blame the Teamsters for backing out in '97 - THERE WAS NO CERTIFICATION VOTE UNDERWAY - thus no implicit contract between the Express employees and the Teamsters. In this instance with the Ground handlers, a certification vote was established, and the Teamsters cut and run. Again, who in their right mind is going to put their career at risk (as bad as it has gotten) to attempt to organize for an outfit that has demonstrated a "cut and run" mentality when there wasn't a slam dunk set up for them?

 

[Ricochet1a]

You are saying we'll reorganize by next year's election most likely. Any concrete evidence of this? Not questioning your veracity, just want to know if you have solid proof.

What do you want me to do, put up PDF's of internal memos, complete with signature blocks and handwritten notes? Honestly, you've got to be kidding. There is no way to put up "proof" that would stand up to the "rules of evidence". All that can be done is to report on what has been seen, and then try to use publically available information to create as many "dots" as possible - then rely on the reader's ability to use inductive reasoning to make a conclusion regarding the probability of accuracy of the information.

Putting up just a single PDF of a memo, would reveal WAY too much about the source of the information.

I can illustrate this quite vividly, without causing too much alarm.

The poster who goes by the name of "JaxFedEx"...

His employee number is 838381 and his manager goes by "Billy"... I'm not going to post his name, since that would violate BC rules.

"JaxFedEx", I'm not trying to scare you, but you do give the opportunity to prove a point...

He hasn't made any defamatory statements regarding FedEx, so he is absolutely safe, but I do this just to point out how easy it is to pin point individuals if a few - seemingly irrelevant bits of information - are disclosed. It took a phone call and all of two minutes to get this information back. If I know it, you can be assured that the Media Relations Dept. knows it as well - or could find out if they wanted to in about 2 minutes time...

Releasing seemingly innocent, or redacted bits of information can result in a a narrower and narrower picture of where that information came from, and more importantly - who released it. I think you (and others) can see where attempting to give "proof" would only endanger those who provide the information, and not do any better job of convincing those reading these posts, of the accuracy of the information. If PDF's were posted, how would you know if they were "genuine" or merely generated by the poster? This is why the most important tool you have is between your ears - your brain. Use it to analyze the information you see, then engage in inductive reasoning and ask questions to clarify or expand understanding (which you've become rather good at doing). Continue to ask questions, connect the dots on your own, then choose a course of action which is best for you.

 

[vantexan]

And then paranoia set in...nah, man, I just want you to say you've got concrete evidence. I want you to say you're in touch with people who've seen the proof and you know them to be reliable. Why do I want this? I've been with FedEx since '86 and I've heard dozens of rumors over the years. And while you may be a paragon of virtue there are those who like to stir the pot and sit back and watch the fireworks. And frankly I hope you are wrong although signs are certainly pointing to something big coming. Oh hell, the whole country is in the crapper, why should we be any different? Ultimately though, you like to focus on the questioner, just like everyone else here, but I'm trying to ask the questions that many want to know. We NEED to know! So if you are going to publish tomes trying to enthrall us with your inside knowledge, expect a few questions, ok?

 

[Ricochet1a]

Just as you ask questions, I ask questions, many questions…

Concrete evidence… just what exactly is concrete evidence? I’ve seen memos (all PDFs mind you, no originals – the providers aren’t stupid enough to “lift” original documents - many aren’t physical documents, they are in electronic format only), talked to people in positions where their job function would lend considerable credence to statements they’ve made and spoken with people I’ve known for a not insignificant amount of time that have come across information on their own, NOT using the same source as I for related information. I too connect the dots. This is why I used the example I did with “Jax”; I performed a “connect the dots” exercise. Hopefully “Jax” won’t be afraid to “confirm” the dots were connected successfully, and thus illustrate my point – and if I failed to connect the dots successfully, I’d like to know via private mail…

If anyone were to come up here or any other public site and state: “I’ve got absolute concrete evidence”, well, I’d like to see that “concrete evidence” myself. The fact is, there is no concrete evidence, there are only business plans, conversations regarding potential business plans and individuals who have made a decision to disclose that information - since they believe getting out the information serves a purpose they are sympathetic to. I’ll point out this, business plans do change and evolve, according to the vision of corporate management and changing business environments. ANYONE attempting to definitively state that a corporation will follow course “X-Y-Z” at a given time schedule is just fooling themselves and those around them. However, corporations do indeed make plans, analyze those plans, do costing analysis of those plans and even make contingency plans based on potential market changes (like Express did when faced with losing its RLA status…).

As far as “NEED to know”, how can anyone really state they “need” to know. We all “like” to know, but as far as needing to know, that is a stretch.

You keep on going back to the premise that everything can be laid out in black and white, subject to empirical examination, confirmed with multiple sources and then established as a form of “scientific fact”. Hate to break the news, but the only scientific facts you’ll find are in textbooks. My argument on this is starting to become circular, but there is no way I can post documents, name individuals or do anything else that would endanger those I privately communicate with – just isn’t going to happen.

You’ve been on this site long enough to see a lot of observations regarding the conditions of wage employees. Any single observation can’t be used to indicate anything of significance. But when more and more observations are reported and combined with information that is presented in a forum such as this, a better and better picture of the future can be created. With this information, you are in a position to make a better judgment regarding your personal situation and thus future.

Given the nature of this forum, that is the best that can be done. If you want the “Finger of God” to write out the future in stone for you, I would have to suggest that you look elsewhere, you’re not going to find that level of proof here. I think I earlier presented a rather cogent argument that illustrated the rationale in transitioning to a predominantly part-time Courier force, using “facts” that are publically disclosed by FedEx (the annual report), combined with a bit of inductive reasoning.

In short, you seem to be asking, “Am I going to have a job in a year”. Short answer, I don’t know! If you are asking the question, “What are the odds that I’ll still be working as a full-time Courier come two years from now?’, my response would be: Not very high, but it depends on many variables. At this point, the variables that apply to a single individual are just too numerous to pin down with any sort of confidence. But when Express is taken as a whole, a better picture can be created – the career Courier is in the process of being phased out, to be replaced with a force of predominantly part-time Couriers to allow costs to be driven down and thus improve FedEx profitability. How you fit within that “big picture” of the future of FedEx, only you can make that determination.

I present the arguments as best I can, while protecting those who I communicate with. If this doesn’t meet your demands, then so be it. I’m not out for fame on this, hell, I’m paranoid at times about just how much I do put up, for fear that I’ve revealed too many potential bits of information that can be pieced together by FedEx and harm those still with Express.

If this doesn’t assist you, then go back the state of “ignorance is bliss” that is so common among many FedEx wage employees. Many do indeed choose to close their eyes regarding the future of their career, since spending time thinking about what they see causes a tremendous amount of anxiety that they aren’t able to deal with. By showing up here, you obviously have a need for information that Express doesn’t provide you, thus immediately indicating that you don’t trust Express. If you want a life with less anxiety, don’t read here – the content here is posted by individuals who want to engage in discussion and want to know more about their situation than Express is willing to disclose to them. You have to make the decision as to what is informed posting and what is speculation. I try to state within my posts what is personal speculation, and what is based off of information received by those I place a degree of trust with.

Since the Teamsters have more or less “bailed” on FedEx employees, the primary rationale for my posting here in the first place is gone. My goal was to inform and motivate - to get Express Couriers, RTDs, Ramp Agents and Mechanics to perform a personal gut check and make a decision to sign IBT cards. That is gone now. Now, I’m only left to present information to those who choose to read, to enable those that choose to “head to the lifeboats”, some additional time before they are forced to take a swim. There may be a chance of getting an AFL-CIO union to take up the challenge of an organization attempt, but that is highly unlikely.

That’s about the best I can do. You have to take it from there. I can state that there is indeed “life” outside FedEx and it is quite good. Making a change often involves a bit of personal discomfort, but you’ll be better off for it in the long run. If you decide to stay with Express till what I and others believe will be the “bitter end”, best of luck. If you decide to look for an alternative method of making a living - again, best of luck.

About the best analogy I can come up with to encapsulate this whole situation is that of “stock advice”. There is no rock solid proof that a particular stock will shoot up or be a dog. Analysis can be done on the company, the business model and the financial status to determine potential future performance – but in the end, it is all just informed speculation (I think they use the term “speculation” when it comes to the stock market…). Predicting FedEx is even more difficult, since the information regarding future business plans ISN’T publically available and those that do discuss the information outside of official channels are at risk of losing their employment if they are found out. This is where I believe the source of your frustration lies. At least a stock analyst can point to graphs and financial statements to “back up” their assertions. What can be done here regarding the business plans of FedEx when it comes to the careers of wage employees?

I hope this gives a better illustration of the difficulty in presenting a picture of the future for wage employees. The big picture can be described with a fair degree of accuracy, but how you as an individual fit within that picture cannot be determined – without giving out way too many details of plans.

 

[vantexan]

Don't mean to ruffle your feathers but you know how it is. A couple of years ago reading this forum would convince anyone that a union was just around the corner. As far as revealing too much, well I've stated my name here and on Fedexaminer a few times and am still here. There was a time I was writing with extreme anger but a near death experience and very good blood pressure medicine have given me a different perspective. I'm just hanging in there as long as possible and resigned to the fact that FedEx will never be the company I believed they were many years ago. At this point I'm not interested in starting a new "career", just want my current one to hold up a little longer. Maybe FedEx will be that place to get a good PT job for future newhires. It's a bit bitter to me now but when I leave it'll be to a totally different experience and I have no desire to even think about FedEx at that point beyond the deposit of my pension check. I'm tempted to hang in there until I'm 55 to get the retiree travel discount but there's no guarantee that I'll be able to stay FT for another 5.5 years or if that benefit will even be available then. Afterall if they ever are ruled to not be a scheduled airline then that benefit most likely will disappear. In effect my job is on it's deathbed. Just hovering around deciding to pull the cord or see if it gets better.

 

[Ricochet1a]

If you are able to work as a full-time Courier, you have the capability to examine other options in life. When one runs into a brick wall, the best option is to step back and then take a step to the side - in order to continue to move forward.

First off, you seem to be of the opinion that your options are full-time or retirement. Why not go part-time to keep benefits and some income rolling in, rather than retiring at an early age. If you can pass a DOT physical (which I'm presuming so), then you can get your Class A CDL and take up a job driving trucks for awhile. I know it pays better than a mid-range Courier. I'd hazard a guess that your health conditions are due in no small part to the stress of working at Express. If the job is "killing you", you may want to look for other work, Express isn't worth it.

One cannot have "tunnel vision" when it relates to their livelihood. I know Couriers that have a family for whom they are financially responsible for take that "step back" in order to move forward - you appear to be single with no kids.... One cannot make their life solely dependent on their employer, that just doesn't make sense.

There's no point in "pulling the cord" unless you have another job waiting to go to. You take control of your life, create options, and pull the cord on Express when it suits your schedule, don't spend your life constantly stressing if Express is going to pull the cord on you. Just as you are expendable to Express, you need to make progress in making Express as close to expendable as possible.

When I was being placed in the "hotseat" by Express over my organizing activites, they had no idea I had already made arrangements to "pull the cord" on Express. See, management didn't "connect the dots" with an employee that was engaging in organizing, while already having made plans to leave - it was a bit counterintuitive to them. They were thinking that I must've been of the state of mind of trying to make a career out of union organizing, so they thought they could intimidate me into behaving to keep my job - couldn't have been further from the truth...

It took quite of bit of self control to keep from laughing when they started up a sentence with, "Your future at Express is dependent on...." There wasn't going to be any future at Express, just a date in the near future where I'd announce my departure.I knew I had nothing to lose (had a confirmed seat on a departing lifeboat), so I was going to create as many headaches as possible before I turned in my ID and left. I did leave a bit earlier than originally planned - I didn't anticipate the flurry of trumped up issues and things that would regularily be done with a "nasty gram", replaced by OLCCs and finally by an "encompassing" Warning Letter for the OLCCs. But I have no regrets. If nothing else, they confirmed my suspicions of Express when it came to attempts at organization.

When I signed onto this forum in mid-09, I was of the opinion and hope that Express would lose its RLA status and be organized by the end of 2010 on a national basis. We all know what happened there - it appears that the Teamsters aren't the only ones who know how to cut and run... The thing that kept me from breaking cover at my working location then was the fact that I didn't have an escape plan in place. I was hoping that there would be a "wave" of sentiment to organize, therefore Express couldn't "hang" the organizers without causing even further problems for themselves. The Democrats dithered, I kept cover and finally created an exit option. I'm absolutely confident that the "organizers" at the Ground terminal are already being sized up for the correct noose to use.

 

[vantexan]

I appreciate the advice but I've been working since I was 12(seriously) and am looking forward to pursuing other ventures. If FedEx comes out with a new pay plan that would allow me to accumulate some serious savings I'd probably hang on but just working to get by holds no appeal. I was told by a 34 yr old coworker today that he meant no offense but he'd hate to someday be my age and facing the limitations I am as a FedEx employee. He's right, and I guarantee I won't be 59 wondering if I should stay until my full SS kicks in at 67. I had figured on moving to one of several places in South America but learned recently that a Canadian satellite tv company has coverage that extends down to Guatemala. They have all the channels including networks from your choice of Seattle or Detroit. The American companies don't go that far. So there's a nice place in southern Mexico with good weather, low costs, and plenty to do where I can get by ok and have good tv to boot. Given that choice or remain in the States working to just get by it's an easy one for me. I'm not in the drug trade so like several hundred thousand Americans already in Mexico I'll be ok.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

I really think it comes down to the IBT focusing on organizing FedEx freight. Once any, at all, FedExers realize the shafting they are getting, on a firsthand basis (aka union employees overlap with non-union), then the Teamsters have a much better shot of locally organizing Ground. The wheel will be better greased at least within the more union-friendly states.

 

[Ricochet1a]

I really think it comes down to the IBT focusing on organizing FedEx freight. Once any, at all, FedExers realize the shafting they are getting, on a firsthand basis (aka union employees overlap with non-union), then the Teamsters have a much better shot of locally organizing Ground. The wheel will be better greased at least within the more union-friendly states.

As far as Express was concerned, getting the IBT into one of the operating segments would've been significant to show the IBT was willing to expend some effort. Believe me, Express employees know they are getting shafted. There are two things which they know even more assuredly: that any attempt within Express to openly organize will be met with terminations galore, the IBT will cut and run if the going gets a bit rough for them. Combine these two factors and Express employees aren't going to do a thing.

The other thing is that with the RLA, any attempt MUST be done on a national basis - no local cherry picking by any union.

Then the future business plans of Express include shedding as many full-time wage employees as possible while outsourcing the performance of "services" to other segments with a lower cost of operations.

All combined, this means that a snowball has better odds of existing in hell, than Express does of unionizing.

 

[Catatonic]

As far as Express was concerned, getting the IBT into one of the operating segments would've been significant to show the IBT was willing to expend some effort. Believe me, Express employees know they are getting shafted. There are two things which they know even more assuredly: that any attempt within Express to openly organize will be met with terminations galore, the IBT will cut and run if the going gets a bit rough for them. Combine these two factors and Express employees aren't going to do a thing.

The other thing is that with the RLA, any attempt MUST be done on a national basis - no local cherry picking by any union.

Then the future business plans of Express include shedding as many full-time wage employees as possible while outsourcing the performance of "services" to other segments with a lower cost of operations.

All combined, this means that a snowball has better odds of existing in hell, than Express does of unionizing.

I hope you are wrong because the future for UPS operations in the US are bleak if FedEx employees do not organize.

UPS is carrying the load for all Teamsters and it is just a matter of time before UPS falls by the wayside in the US as an employer of Teamsters.

The Teamsters and UPS Union employees have got to do something about FedEx unionizing or all UPS Teamster employee jobs and pensions are in jeopardy by 2025.

 

[vantexan]

I hope you are wrong because the future for UPS operations in the US are bleak if FedEx employees do not organize. UPS is carrying the load for all Teamsters and it is just a matter of time before UPS falls by the wayside in the US as an employer of Teamsters. The Teamsters and UPS Union employees have got to do something about FedEx unionizing or all UPS Teamster employee jobs and pensions are in jeopardy by 2025.

Considering how arrogant some of your coworkers are hard for me to feel sorry for them if everything falls apart. Do you guys not get a vested pension that's locked in at whatever you accrued before leaving UPS? If so the only thing that can really happen is UPS files bankruptcy and you'll have to accept a possibly reduced pension, if your pension is big enough, through the PBGC. Needing us so that you can do well while we will probably not get as good a deal as you isn't a convincing argument. But it's a moot point, pretty much not going to happen.

 

[Ricochet1a]

I hope you are wrong because the future for UPS operations in the US are bleak if FedEx employees do not organize.

UPS is carrying the load for all Teamsters and it is just a matter of time before UPS falls by the wayside in the US as an employer of Teamsters.

The Teamsters and UPS Union employees have got to do something about FedEx unionizing or all UPS Teamster employee jobs and pensions are in jeopardy by 2025.

You are absolutely on the money - your wisdom shows....

When I was still in Express, I'd ask people who they were "competing" with, the guy in Brown or the guy in Purple with a Green logo on his shirt (FedEx Ground). Without exception they got it wrong (they stated that they were in competition with the guy in Brown).

UPS and Express wage employees are in competition with the business model that exists in FedEx Ground. That business model has wage "employees" making between $25,000 and $30,000 a year in total competition. No other existing business model can compete against that and still compensate their employees with a middle class income.

I think a large part of the Teamsters recent lack of demonstrated cajones is due to the Democrats conduct in the 2009-10 Congress. They had a clear shot to reset the stage and make legislation that would benefit labor for years to come - they blew it. Everyone now seems to be of the mentality to "play it safe" and not take any losses. Going from controlling both houses of Congress to a bunker mentality in such a short time is amazing.


The other cold hard fact is that if FedEx Corporation can get package volume moved by employees making a total of $30,000 a year in compensation, then the typical Express full timer (for as long as they remain full time) making about $50,000 in compensation has it "relatively good". They know they can't get into UPS (NO ONE is going to spend years working as a handler after driving for a living), so their options are limited to hanging on till the bitter end, or taking personal initiative and retraining for another career.

When a situation like this exists, equilibrium must be restored. Businesses cannot compete when there is such disparity between compensation models. There will either be a rush towards the lowest common denominator, or there will be unionization within the lowest compensated business models.

FedEx has gone to extraordinary lengths to keep unions out. They spend tens of millions a year in lobbying and legal expenses to maintain their business models. To date, they have won against all - even a Democrat controlled Congress and White House.

Between the RLA for Express, the IC/ISP business model for Ground and the lack of cajones within the IBT, the outcome is inevitable - a gradual race to the bottom, with equilibrium established somewhere around $35-40,000/yr compensation for full time wage employees.

I honestly don't see how UPS can continue to compete against this for another 5 years, forget about another 14 years (without radically altering its compensation for its drivers).

So, the situation boils down to the fact that if the current UPS drivers want to protect their compensation package, they have a vested interest in making sure the compensation packages of Express and Ground wage employees are somehow increased. In the end, the playing field MUST be leveled, free market economics dictates that a disparity such as currently exists cannot be supported for long.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

When a situation like this exists, equilibrium must be restored. Businesses cannot compete when there is such disparity between compensation models. There will either be a rush towards the lowest common denominator, or there will be unionization within the lowest compensated business models.

While the latter would be the ideal the former seems much more likely.

Between the RLA for Express, the IC/ISP business model for Ground and the lack of cajones within the IBT, the outcome is inevitable - a gradual race to the bottom, with equilibrium established somewhere around $35-40,000/yr compensation for full time wage employees.

I honestly don't see how UPS can continue to compete against this for another 5 years, forget about another 14 years (without radically altering its compensation for its drivers).

Can you say SurePost?

So, the situation boils down to the fact that if the current UPS drivers want to protect their compensation package, they have a vested interest in making sure the compensation packages of Express and Ground wage employees are somehow increased. In the end, the playing field MUST be leveled, free market economics dictates that a disparity such as currently exists cannot be supported for long.

This is why I am fairly certain that you will see a two-tiered wage structure approved in 2013.

 

[bbsam]

I can say surepost, but Fedex says smartpost.

 

[Ricochet1a]

From the Courier, Express and Postal Observer - March 11, 2011

· The UPS SurePost services combines UPS shipping with USPS-delivery to customers' mailboxes.
· UPS WorldShip determines if UPS or the USPS completes the final mile of delivery of each shipment.
· UPS Surepost allows delivery to any point in all 50 states, APO/FPO/DPO addresses, PO Boxes, and US territory Ship To destinations.
· UPS Surepost shipments are validated and processed like small packages.


Now.... this is very intersting. It seems UPS is trying to get in on the same game FedEx is playing (look at the first bullet point). UPS does the shipping, then the piece is turned over to the USPS for final delivery to its customers.


Does this sound familiar to what I've been stating is going to happen to Express....

I can't imagine how the IBT can roll over and allow this to happen. If it does happen, all that faith that UPS drivers have placed in the Teamsters will be for nought.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

The chief difference between SmartPost and SurePost is how the pkgs get to the Post Office--this is where FedEx has the advantage.