Frequently Asked Questions About the union

[Cactus]

Says the guys getting paid $32 an hour, fully paid health ins, and a pension you could actually live on. Let me know when you want to switch.

Upstate can go work for his buddy bbsam at Ground and see what it's like not to having to pay union dues.

 

[MAKAVELI]

Says the guys getting paid $32 an hour, fully paid health ins, and a pension you could actually live on. Let me know when you want to switch.

Upstate can go work for his buddy bbsam at Ground and see what it's like not to having to pay union dues.

That would probably last about one day.

 

[PiedmontSteward]

That would probably last about one day.

Don't worry, Upstate is more than willing to throw his younger Teamster brothers under the bus by openly advocating a two-tiered wage system that protects him while selling out those coming in to drive a package car when he retires. He's already got his shiny gold plated knee-pads from Scott Davis.. guess he's looking for a platinum dental dam from Fred S next!

 

[Cactus]

Don't worry, Upstate is more than willing to throw his younger Teamster brothers under the bus by openly advocating a two-tiered wage system that protects him while selling out those coming in to drive a package car when he retires. He's already got his shiny gold plated knee-pads from Scott Davis.. guess he's looking for a platinum dental dam from Fred S next!

He thinks that FedEx Ground is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but he wouldn't be caught dead working there.

 

[MAKAVELI]

That would probably last about one day.

Don't worry, Upstate is more than willing to throw his younger Teamster brothers under the bus by openly advocating a two-tiered wage system that protects him while selling out those coming in to drive a package car when he retires. He's already got his shiny gold plated knee-pads from Scott Davis.. guess he's looking for a platinum dental dam from Fred S next!

He would fit right in with the Ground contractors. No ethics, honor, heart or soul required.

 

[PiedmontSteward]

He thinks that FedEx Ground is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but he wouldn't be caught dead working there.

The 1099 Independent Contractor scam is one of the ugliest things facing organized labor - on the ground, at least - today. The practice undercuts unionized labor costs and outright robs 1099 classified workers of overtime, benefits, retirement, et cetera. It also robs the coffers of cash-strapped local governments and contributes to reduced public services, roads not being repaired, cops not being hired, etc.

That being said, there's a huge pissing contest against Ground workers on the FedEx boards here with the Express couriers. Granted, much of the work Express couriers did is being shifted over to Ground.. but that's no reason to rail against the Ground contractor. Everyone under the Federal Express umbrella is being exploited, no matter where the work is going.

 

[MAKAVELI]

He thinks that FedEx Ground is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but he wouldn't be caught dead working there.

The 1099 Independent Contractor scam is one of the ugliest things facing organized labor - on the ground, at least - today. The practice undercuts unionized labor costs and outright robs 1099 classified workers of overtime, benefits, retirement, et cetera. It also robs the coffers of cash-strapped local governments and contributes to reduced public services, roads not being repaired, cops not being hired, etc.

That being said, there's a huge pissing contest against Ground contractors on the FedEx boards here with the Express couriers. Granted, much of the work Express couriers did is being shifted over to ground.. but that's no reason to rail against the Ground contractor. Everyone under the Federal Express umbrella is being exploited, no matter where the work is going.

Contractors at ground are now becoming the exploiters and their " employees" are the ones being shafted. Fred S has shown them the way and now more are following their hero's lead.

 

[bbsam]

Don't you guys have organizing to do?

 

[bbsam]

The 1099 Independent Contractor scam is one of the ugliest things facing organized labor - on the ground, at least - today. The practice undercuts unionized labor costs and outright robs 1099 classified workers of overtime, benefits, retirement, et cetera. It also robs the coffers of cash-strapped local governments and contributes to reduced public services, roads not being repaired, cops not being hired, etc.

That being said, there's a huge pissing contest against Ground workers on the FedEx boards here with the Express couriers. Granted, much of the work Express couriers did is being shifted over to Ground.. but that's no reason to rail against the Ground contractor. Everyone under the Federal Express umbrella is being exploited, no matter where the work is going.

Interesting view. In your opinion, is all 1099 contracting illegal, a scam, just plain wrong? And do you see the laws regulating such as changing anytime soon.

 

[bbsam]

Upstate can go work for his buddy bbsam at Ground and see what it's like not to having to pay union dues.

Probably when he retires. He can set up a delivery driver school and consulting firm. I can pay him $30/ hr and he can get his pension. Probably work 10 to 15, maybe 20 hours a week. Whatever he wants really. That's called, "having your cake and eating it too.". Not really working for the competition so keeping the pension income safe.

 

[Code 82 Approved]

He thinks that FedEx Ground is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but he wouldn't be caught dead working there.

I am going on a limb here.. Every delivery package I touch is a dollar. My pay for 2011 and 2012 are about equal in sync for the year's packages delivered. It is up to me to make it $23.75 an hour or $18.00. I have healthcare, and 401k. and I based it on 240 working days. Nobody commented on my last thread, this was my point. Ground Drivers can find a great gig..

This nonsense about $10-12 an hour is only absurd at best.
I thought about having my college aged daughter run packages this summer, and maybe taking on more packages to break even on that as a (driver). She took an internship instead. But the security and background checks are the same as a mine.

 

[Code 82 Approved]

The 1099 Independent Contractor scam is one of the ugliest things facing organized labor - on the ground, at least - today. The practice undercuts unionized labor costs and outright robs 1099 classified workers of overtime, benefits, retirement, et cetera. It also robs the coffers of cash-strapped local governments and contributes to reduced public services, roads not being repaired, cops not being hired, etc. That being said, there's a huge pissing contest against Ground workers on the FedEx boards here with the Express couriers. Granted, much of the work Express couriers did is being shifted over to Ground.. but that's no reason to rail against the Ground contractor. Everyone under the Federal Express umbrella is being exploited, no matter where the work is going.

Well done sir! This Ground guy liked that.

 

[Code 82 Approved]

Can you elaborate on this?

IBT never comes around my terminal anymore....heck not seen them since maybe 2008.

 

[Ricochet1a]

I am going on a limb here.. Every delivery package I touch is a dollar. My pay for 2011 and 2012 are about equal in sync for the year's packages delivered. It is up to me to make it $23.75 an hour or $18.00. I have healthcare, and 401k. and I based it on 240 working days. Nobody commented on my last thread, this was my point. Ground Drivers can find a great gig..

First off, you are supposedly a route owner, not a helper. This malarkey about Ground helpers making $18/hr, having a 401 (k) and employer provided health insurance is just pure nonsense. The typical Ground helper makes $600 a week, works 50 hours (including all time at work, NOT just on road - Express employees are paid from the moment they clock in to the moment they clock out - they are WAGE EMPLOYEES). The $600/wk salary nets the Ground helper the equivalent hourly wage of between $11 and $11.50/hr. They don't get any benefits provided to them by their employer unless their employer has difficulty in retaining their helpers, then maybe they get kicked some paid vacation or maybe some other funds.

At this point, I don't know if you are another one of the Memphis shills, or just plain out to lunch. None of the other contractors that have posted here have posted ANYTHING like the crap you have in the past month in regards to what Ground HELPERS are paid.

I don't believe for a minute you pay your HELPERS anything like you state above - assuming that you are actually a Ground contractor and also not blowing smoke around.

This nonsense about $10-12 an hour is only absurd at best.

No, the other contractors here have CONFIRMED that the typical HELPER is paid at the equivalent hourly wage of between $11 and $11.50/hr with NO benefits whatsoever. If their helpers receive paid vacation, the contractor is being VERY generous. '

I thought about having my college aged daughter run packages this summer, and maybe taking on more packages to break even on that as a (driver). She took an internship instead. But the security and background checks are the same as a mine.

And here is where you give yourself away. No HELPER working a Ground route could even think of footing the bill for their child's post secondary education.

If you are indeed a Ground contractor, just admit that you exist for one reason and one reason only, to give Fred S the ability to get his Ground volume moved for a fraction of the expense that it would otherwise cost him if he had a proper employer-employee business model.

Just as Fred S is taking advantage of a lack of clarity in labor law, you are a willing participant in that scheme that is able to line your pockets at the expense of the people you employ.

Try paying "your" employees the same they would receive if they were employed as Couriers by Express. They'd be paid around $16/hr, be paid from clock in to clock out, get a rather crappy 3.5% 401k match, have some health insurance along with some mediocre dental and vision insurance, and finally a $3000 annual tuition reimbursement benefit. They'd also get about 5% of their gross put into what is called "Portable Pension Plan". Your total expense per hour worked would be in the ball park of $20-22/hr while your employee is on the clock (benefits and all). That just happens to be about double what they typical Ground contractor pays one of their helpers. Why don't you try that and see what it does to your bottom line.

This constant attempt by the contractors to convince everyone that they are indeed 'legit', and are true 'independent contractors' strikes me as just warped thinking on their part. They know damn good and well why their 'business' exists - and the implications of their participating in the FedEx use of the 'contractor model' and what that does to the individuals they use to fulfill their contract.

In the interest of full disclosure, I own FedEx stock through a third party. It was purchased early last autumn, when I knew that FedEx stock price was going to jump with all the plans they had in store that they PUBLICLY announced (press releases, investors' conference calls, announced personnel changes, trends in revenue). I only purchased it because i knew that: no money would be placed into the hands of FedEx by my purchasing and eventually selling the stock, no change in FedEx operating pattern could've been achieved by myself by holding the stock, my purchase was no where near substantial enough to have any impact of corporate operating patterns through shareholder action (voting at a shareholder meeting). I fully intend on making a substantial profit when my sell order kicks in. Given all the years of under-compensation by my former employer, I have no qualms about making up for that by risking my capital and achieving a profit on the eventual sale of that stock.

I'm going to go off on an academic/philosophical tangent, and apply Kant's Categorical Imperative to the Ground contractor model. One of the formulations of the Imperative is: "Act only according to that maxim (principle) whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law (all should act likewise) without contradiction".

So, would the world be a better place (collective good increased) if the IC/ISP model of Ground were to be more widely implemented, or curtailed? Would the contractors be equally comfortable acting as either the owner/contractor or as a helper? Would it maximize public good to have a greater utilization of the business model of Ground, or would it be a detriment to public good?

It doesn't take a philosopher to figure out that the Ground business model results in a DECREASE in public good (a very few gain at the considerable expense of others). In this case, Kant states that the individual should abstain from taking the proposed course of action (Ground business model) and seek another alternative which increases public good.

Purchasing and selling stock in a company which derives NO benefit from that transaction and for which the transactor has no ability to modify the behavior of the company in question falls outside the categorical imperative - there is no increase or decrease in public good by either choosing or not choosing to purchase stock. It becomes purely a personal financial decision.

Choosing to participate in the IC/ISP model of Ground through ownership DOES fall within the categorical imperative - the participant willfully chooses to enrich themselves at the expense of those who work for them. There are other alternatives for 'business' opportunity, so a moral judgment is appropriate in this case.

 

[Ricochet1a]

Can you elaborate on this?

In regards to the organizing attempt in Brockton MA.

Written October 2011 by myself....

I started posting to this site again (after a hiatus between mid 2010 and August 2011, between which I ended my employment at Express), in what was a futile hope that the IBT had finally managed to get their foot into the door of FedEx, through a Ground terminal in Massachusetts.

As readers to this forum know, FedEx sent in their union busting team, they canned a few white managers and replaced them with black managers (the handlers were overwhelming non-white in this station), then managed to somehow convince the handlers that they'd be better off in not voting to certify union representation.

Just a few days before the certification election was to be held, the IBT withdrew their petition for a certification election to be held - presumably to save face in what was appearing to be an imminent victory for FedEx.

In the two months since, there hasn't been a single word come out of either the IBT, or news media - as to the reason for the withdrawal of the petition. If you hadn't followed the event here - most likely you would've never known it happened in the first place. The important players (the IBT and FedEx), knew exactly what happened. FedEx made a small public statement, and then let it go - they didn't want to advertise the fact that there was a location where they had to bust up unionizing activity. The IBT wanted to prevent too much loss of face, so they kept their mouth shut - didn't happen, don't look here, and move along.


Read more: http://www.browncafe.com/forum/f50/...-inactive-over-7-months-340919/#ixzz2QL4UM7iZ

 

[PiedmontSteward]

Interesting view. In your opinion, is all 1099 contracting illegal, a scam, just plain wrong? And do you see the laws regulating such as changing anytime soon.

Not all 1099 contracting is a scam. For example, I did some data entry work for the local historical museum the first summer after I graduated high school. I worked for them for about 3 weeks; it was fairly clear this wasn't a long-term gig and they obviously couldn't afford to keep me on payroll just to enter museum surveys. I was given a deadline and essentially left alone - I didn't have to come into the office, worked at my own pace, et cetera.

However, requiring an employee to punch in/punch out, wear a uniform, drive a company vehicle, follow company procedures and classifying them as a 1099 employee is a load of horse **** and only done to keep the IBT out of the portion of FedEx's system they can actually organize station-by-station, and as a result, keep labor costs down.

 

[thedownhillEXPRESS]

The 1099 Independent Contractor scam is one of the ugliest things facing organized labor - on the ground, at least - today. The practice undercuts unionized labor costs and outright robs 1099 classified workers of overtime, benefits, retirement, et cetera. It also robs the coffers of cash-strapped local governments and contributes to reduced public services, roads not being repaired, cops not being hired, etc.

That being said, there's a huge pissing contest against Ground workers on the FedEx boards here with the Express couriers. Granted, much of the work Express couriers did is being shifted over to Ground.. but that's no reason to rail against the Ground contractor. Everyone under the Federal Express umbrella is being exploited, no matter where the work is going.

For the most part, it's attacking the ground model first.That gets the ground people on here in a frenzy and gets the ball rolling on bashing.Most bring the attacks on themselves.I have nothing against bb nor do I attack his pursuit in life.
However I will argue till I'm blue in the face that the corporation itself is the exploiter and evil with the ground model.
The handful of new ground defenders on here are way out of their league and make themselves look like fools.

 

[bbsam]

But as an ISP, the company allows me to opt out of the uniform program, I do not pay 1099, file and deposit payroll taxes...in short I run as a contractor, don't I? I think alot of your misgivings are yesterdays sins that the company has made strides in fixing. Yes they still have a huge advantage in cheaper labor, but isn't that really because the negotiated rate that UPS is artificially high? That isn't to say that UPS folks don't work hard, but it doesn't mean that UPS couldn't get the labor far cheaper either.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

But as an ISP, the company allows me to opt out of the uniform program, I do not pay 1099, file and deposit payroll taxes...in short I run as a contractor, don't I? I think alot of your misgivings are yesterdays sins that the company has made strides in fixing. Yes they still have a huge advantage in cheaper labor, but isn't that really because the negotiated rate that UPS is artificially high? That isn't to say that UPS folks don't work hard, but it doesn't mean that UPS couldn't get the labor far cheaper either.

Artificially high? Did you not read the "Do we deserve $32/hr" thread? Are you implying that Union members have a sense of entitlement? (It's very hard to type this with tongue planted firmly in cheek)

 

[thedownhillEXPRESS]

Artificially high? Did you not read the "Do we deserve $32/hr" thread? Are you implying that Union members have a sense of entitlement? (It's very hard to type this with tongue planted firmly in cheek)

Then why do you advocate a two tier system?
How about you advocate capping your pay for the next ten years and keeping a one tier system so that everyone that does the same work gets the same pay?
You are the entitled one.
Why two tiers, because it doesn't hurt you.