I'm married now, first and only time. Where do you get this stuff?When you take that oath you are committed to serve the PUBLIC trust in whatever human form they come in. Not just the Christian public trust. If the rule of law entitled that couple to go to the county office of their choice to apply for a marriage license they were free to do so. if this gay couple didn't go to that office and uncover this woman's unlawful activity another couple would have. Just one other thing. Based on your comments it would appear you have been married more than once. What about those vows you took? You know that thing about "for richer or poorer"? Yet you would leave your current wife, what is she number 2 or 3 and go someplace where you could live a few bucks cheaper leaving you with more money in your pocket. If this was the case then you my friend are one sorry excuse for a Christian. But then again Christianity is a religion that can be anything you want it to be and can be used to support any point of view you may have. Believe me you are in no position to point out anybody's spiritual shortcomings.
Future Speculation
- Thread starter Serf
- Start date
I'm married now, first and only time. Where do you get this stuff?
The legislative branch creates laws. The judicial branch decides if said laws are Constitutional(if it ever comes to that).
oldrps
Well-Known Member
What if a clerk decided not give out marriage licenses to people that have been married before because it is a sin in their religion. What if a clerk believes that drinking is a sin and denies a company that applies for a liquor permit. What if a gay person is being robbed and a policeman standing there does nothing because it is against their religion. You can draw thousands of examples of where someone's religious beliefs can get in the way, but they must still do the job as they are a public servant. They can't be a public servant and deny service based on their own beliefs or it offends them, it does not work that way. So it does matter that she did not fulfill their legal right to get a marriage license.
If it violates their conscience to do so, then a reasonable accommodation should be provided. Someone in that office most likely has the power to grant a license should the county clerk be away for vacation or illness. The clerk who refuses believes sincerely that they are held accountable to a higher law in such instances. It may cost them their livelihood but it's their right under the Bill of Rights to exercise their religious freedom. There may be thousands of examples, but most of what you cite would be highly unlikely. The various businesses forced to close have all said they have no problem serving gays, only that their beliefs don't allow them to participate in a gay wedding, which they believe should be between a man and a woman. What I'm hearing from people here is what they believe is the only correct and true way. People who believe differently are overgrown children, bigots, homophobes, superstitious. Is it any wonder Christians believe their rights are being trampled on?
There is indeed an admirable alternative to all this. It's called the separation of church and state. If you're religious beliefs prevent you from fully serving the public trust while on the public payroll then don't seek the employment. If you're life is controlled by your religion then serve that religion even if it requires forfeiting professional advancement and economic gain including forfeiting gain that comes courtesy of the public sector. You can't have it both ways. White Christian America is not having it's rights trampled on . It is simply through changing demographics losing it's ability to set policy and control the political agenda which it has been able to do for the last two century's uncontested. And all the wealthy televangelists and poorly educated Southern bible thumpers have no control over life's most powerful force...change.
Oh, stop.
dezguy
Well-Known Member
Personally, I really don't understand not allowing people to live their lives and be happy.
I'm Catholic, was raised Catholic, went to Catholic school (we had nuns and everything in highschool). According to the Vatican, being gay is a sin and I should be against it.
My theory is, God doesn't make mistakes. I don't believe being gay is a choice, you're born that way and if you're born that way, that's the way God wanted you to be.
Who am I to stand in the way of someone being happy? If two guys want to get married and be as miserable as the rest of us, God bless.
Life is too short to worry about what others do in their bedroom.
I'm Catholic, was raised Catholic, went to Catholic school (we had nuns and everything in highschool). According to the Vatican, being gay is a sin and I should be against it.
My theory is, God doesn't make mistakes. I don't believe being gay is a choice, you're born that way and if you're born that way, that's the way God wanted you to be.
Who am I to stand in the way of someone being happy? If two guys want to get married and be as miserable as the rest of us, God bless.
Life is too short to worry about what others do in their bedroom.
I'm only worried about how it affects me. I'm in no way advocating attacking gays, suppressing their right to live their life as they see fit. Only that I disagree with the choice they made, and do not want to be coerced into going along. It works both ways. You don't want Christians shutting down gay bars, or having them arrested for holding hands, or whatever. I don't want gays or supporters driving Christians out of business because they sincerely believe it's wrong to support that lifestyle. People should have the right to follow their conscience whoever they may be. Learn to live and let live.
Next time a gay guy hits on you, I will fully support your right to repel his advances.
Awfully kind of you.
oldrps
Well-Known Member
I am only talking about government employees who must face the public, not business owners.
Christian rights are not being trampled on, but they do not need to push their religious beliefs to other people. When one's religion gets in the way of public job. It is a problem that affects others. They should not take a public sector job that puts them in contact with the public if they are afraid of their religion may get in the way. It's not the job of the government to accommodate every aspect of every religion for their employees that deal with the public.
Example:
911: 911, what is you emergency?
Caller: I have someone breaking in my house!!
911: Are you a minority, gay, lesbian, divorcee, like the color blue, illegal alien, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Baptist, do you believe in reincarnation....etc, etc, etc.
Caller: Why are you asking me all these questions, I need a policeman!!!
911: We have police officers that we have to accommodate and I have to ask you all these questions so we know who to send.
This is where accommodation will get you, it must not even start!!
So conscientious Christians shouldn't even serve in government? What a long way we've come from 1776.
oldrps
Well-Known Member
Not if it interferes with others freedoms.
You give examples that don't apply. No one is going through a checklist to if you're this or that first. And the point of this thread is that Christians who refuse to participate in something they see as wrong are being attacked by the Left. Take the nuns who were sued by the Obama administration. The insurance they offered their employees included contraceptives, but did not include some drugs that were to be taken after sex. The nuns considered that a form of abortion so didn't include them. The Obama administration sued them over it. They literally tried to make them violate their conscience. This is the kind of stuff I'm talking about. People here keep saying that Christians' rights aren't being trampled. Well apparently you aren't aware.
oldrps
Well-Known Member
Your changing the subject, I am talking about public government employees/servants only. You said that the government should make accommodations for religious reasons for public servants. The example I gave is something that could happen if you start to do that. Where do the accommodations end? Who decides what should be accommodated and what shouldn't?
No, I'm giving another example of how Christians are having their rights trampled. The gay couple ultimately got their marriage license, just not from that particular clerk if I remember right. As I've said before, REASONABLE accommodations can be made. And yes it's on a case by case basis and it's not a common thing. But that's not what matters to some here. They're going to insist the Christian gives in and does what they want. There's no willingness to work with anyone. At the root of it is their hatred for Christianity.
You're 100% right. Asking someone to do the job they applied for IS trampling their rights. We, the citizens, should just spend more and more public funds to protect your right to discriminate, even though discrimination is illegal. We should hire enough people to make sure that every possible situation is covered, so no public employee will ever feel like they are doing something distasteful. Public workers MUST be able to discriminate based on sex, creed, and color if they find, for example, that giving a marriage license to a mixed couple violates their 'sincerely' held racist belief.
You are the type who whines and cries about Sharia law, but wants to allow followers of his own religion to determine the course the government should take. There is NO 'reasonable accommodation' for illegal discrimination.
dezguy
Well-Known Member
Why would you be coerced into going along? It's not like there is some gay agenda to turn the entire population gay. Like I said above, I believe you're either gay or you're not.
As for shutting down Christian businesses, if I don't want to support someone's business, I don't support that business. There are plenty other people who will. I've had business owners try to get their way by calling my boss and making straight up lies about me to try to force FedEx to cater to them. Those businesses I no longer support and try to tell as many people as I can, what happened so they know what type of business owner that person(s) are. Despite this, most, if not all of those businesses are still open because they still are supported by other people.
There are plenty of Christians left in this world who, if they choose, will support Christian owned businesses.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
You need to tread carefully here.
Van
"reasonable accommodations" in the work place were designed for the handicapped, physically and mentally impaired so they could live a more normal life in society. I have never heard the term used for religious beliefs before today. Can a Mormon courier refuse to deliver booze because it is against his religion?? NOT! You sir have been brain washed
"reasonable accommodations" in the work place were designed for the handicapped, physically and mentally impaired so they could live a more normal life in society. I have never heard the term used for religious beliefs before today. Can a Mormon courier refuse to deliver booze because it is against his religion?? NOT! You sir have been brain washed
