MAKAVELI
Well-Known Member
The county or city clerk position is a non partisan position. Her job is to serve the entire public, not just the Conservative Christian public.
Future Speculation
- Thread starter Serf
- Start date
Conscientious objectors serve without violating their beliefs in the military. And she was an elected Democrat so hardly non partisan. There's a long history of accommodating beliefs in the U.S..
MAKAVELI
Well-Known Member
There's even a longer history of people serving in these positions without trying to inject their personal beliefs.
If it violates one's conscience to do something, there should be a reasonable accommodation made. Y'all are saying that the only acceptable point of view is your's, and everyone must conform to your belief. In my America people have the right to live as they choose as long as they aren't physically hurting someone. Philosophical disagreements are just that. If Black activists want to blame everything on White cops, that's their right unless they cross the line and physically attack cops. If gays want to parade up and down Main Street acting lasciviously, that's their right as long as they don't cross an established line of what's considered indecent legally. As a Christian it's my duty to not hate them because God loves them and wants them to turn to him. As he does all of us. But it's my duty also to not accept what the Bible teaches is immoral behavior. You may choose to disagree, that's your right as an American. I do not have the right to dominate your view, and you do not have the right to dominate mine. I can only be in charge of my beliefs, and as a Christian I will not yield to yours if I know that the Bible teaches otherwise. So non-believers who zealously pursue forcing others to accept their view alone have a choice to make. They can either make accommodations for other's beliefs, or they can try to destroy that person's finances through the legal system. Which choice do you think will galvanize the Christian community to through voting make certain that their rights are assured? Why do you think Republicans have been successful in winning elections in recent years? It might make you feel good to run a baker or photographer out of business, but if you think there are no repercussions for doing so you are kidding yourselves. Accommodation would make everyone's lives easier, a lesson extremists can't seem to learn.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
When you accept a government position you are forced to set aside your personal beliefs while on the clock.
The clerk in this case was clearly wrong; however, as you pointed out, the couple in question could have gone anywhere else to get their license-----they chose instead to go to her specifically to make a statement.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
When you accept a government position you are forced to set aside your personal beliefs while on the clock.
The couple chose to go to that particular office because they had a right to go there. Clearly what you are proposing is that a separate county office be set up for gay couples to apply for marriage licenses.
Indeed. If you want the job along with the good pay and benefits you set your personal beliefs including your prejudices and your bigotry aside and carry out the duties of the office in accordance with the oath of office that you swore to. You do not run for the office based on your willingness and ability to carry out ALL of the duties of the office then after being elected inform the public that you are only going to perform a certain kind and number of those duties and only for a certain segment of the population within your jurisdiction. If you want the money you do the job honey including some tasks you may not like. After all sweetheart you're the one who put your hand on your bible and took an oath. If forsaking your oath and refusing to serve the needs of all of God's children ,...what's Christian about that?
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
They chose to go to that particular office to make a statement.
Fred's Myth
Nonhyphenated American
The honorable thing would be to resign, then find a job as a photographer or cake baker.
MassWineGuy
Well-Known Member
Now Van. I'm not anti Christian. After all, my people are the ones who killed Jesus. How could anyone call that anti Christian?
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Would he have to do gay weddings?
Oldfart
Well-Known Member
That is true no matter what job you have. You are hired to perform a task. You shouldn't use a personal opinion or belief while doing your job. You should follow the rules as handed down by the employer. I have people on my route constantly asking me question about politics, religion, current events, locally and worldwide. My standard answer is "I don't discuss my personal opinions while on the clock". That way nobody can call and complain that I was bad mouthing anyone or speaking out of turn. A few years ago we had a courier get into an argument with a customer because the customer didn't like the Dallas Cowboys. The argument got so heated they got into an actual fistfight. The courier was terminated. Imagine explaining to your family that you got terminated because of the Cowboys.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
As I recall, and please correct me if I am wrong, didn't you support the courier who confronted the flag burners?
No, what we're saying is that any number of counties would have given them a license no problem. They went to that specific county knowing that clerk's stance on the issue to force a showdown. They won the right to get married by the Supreme Court but now are going to make sure anyone opposed to that right is forced to comply. They may have legal standing to do so, but that clerk's supporters not only in that county but nationwide are going to be energized to go to polls next election to vote on issues or for candidates that they feel will protect their rights in the future, which manifested itself in 2014 and 2016. You may not like that, but that's our system. I fully expect in 2018 that anti-Trump voters are going to come out very strong to get at least part of Congress away from Republicans to stop Trump's agenda. They seem to be very energized right now, and will be more so as the midterm elections get closer.
Unless you're saying I'm anti-Semitic for believing in Jesus I'm not sure what your point is. I believe in the American system that you have a right to believe, or not believe, as you choose. I also believe we answer to a higher power and as a Christian I must comply with the laws of the land except where they conflict with my Christian beliefs. There was a time in this country where Jim Crow laws excluded people of color from the same rights as Whites. As a Christian I would disagree with those laws and refuse to honor them. And would tell fellow Christians that followed them that they were wrong and I would bear the consequences of doing so. But I do not extend that same belief to what is described in the Bible as immoral acts. They have the right to live that way under the law, but they don't have the right to force me to accept it.
Serf
Well-Known Member
"Science".......I'm referring to higher powers and beings of moral and spiritual authority that even Dr. Jones could not comprehend. Science is too primitive.
It's a statement that needed to be made.
When you take that oath you are committed to serve the PUBLIC trust in whatever human form they come in. Not just the Christian public trust. If the rule of law entitled that couple to go to the county office of their choice to apply for a marriage license they were free to do so. if this gay couple didn't go to that office and uncover this woman's unlawful activity another couple would have. Just one other thing. Based on your comments it would appear you have been married more than once. What about those vows you took? You know that thing about "for richer or poorer"? Yet you would leave your current wife, what is she number 2 or 3 and go someplace where you could live a few bucks cheaper leaving you with more money in your pocket. If this was the case then you my friend are one sorry excuse for a Christian. But then again Christianity is a religion that can be anything you want it to be and can be used to support any point of view you may have. Believe me you are in no position to point out anybody's spiritual shortcomings.
DriveInDriveOut
Inordinately Right
So basically what you're saying is, people are so freaking stupid that they vote for legislators based on issues that the judicial branch has power over? Interesting.
